France urged to repay Haiti billions paid for its independence

Originally posted by Sliadon
those responsible are long since dead

[edit on 8/18/2010 by Sliadon]

The wealth isn't though and the descendants of those dead French still benefit from it having been given to France all those years ago.

reply to post by Sliadon


I totally agree.

By no means is such activity limited to 3rd world countries. I feel there is a conspiracy to bankrupt and transfer the wealth of 1st world nations as well. I kept my focus limited on Haiti since that is what this thread is about but I definitely agree there is intentional economic sabotage occurring on a global scale.

reply to post by nagabonar


Who'd we give it to the natives or the thieves who nicked their country, when the Crown was openly taking the tax the colonists were British subjects and rightfully taxed. No taxation without representation, when they got on the ship from the mother country they knew what the deal was, then they welched on it once they realised Britain wanted to stay East of the Mississippi.

reply to post by Thepreye


Since we're speculating anyway, perhaps France lost it all in a Ponzi scheme and no identifiable person in France saw any benefit from the money at any point in time. Now what?

Originally posted by Sliadon
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

Instead of circumventing the censors with profanities, understand that the central argument against the French being forced to pay is that those responsible are long since dead. You would not be happy if police came and arrested you because your ancestor was a messed up person. If the government made your family pay another family who generations ago someone was killed by a person of your family.

It has to do with "enough is enough." No one has said, "I do not care about the Haitian people." But the French should not have to pay for something they (and I mean in this generation) didn't do.


-Sliadon

edit: spelling

[edit on 8/18/2010 by Sliadon]

So all a government has to do is wait it out and they no longer owe victims ANYTHING? That's pretty slimy... ESPECIALLY when Haiti had ZERO recourse.

ha!- good luck with that one..
"le cheque- she is in le mail..

reply to post by NoHierarchy


IE, because they had a miserable failure of a revolution, France should be held responsible. oh vey, les miserabels.

People did bad things. this is sad. Everyone is dead who is responsible now however. Again, go beg for cash to someone who cares. I'm more than sure the Americans would love to give them a few trillion then demand the cash over and take over militarily in a few years down the road.

The fact is they chose to revolt and made very very retarded actions. For this, they get what they bought. If they did not want it, they should have made different choices. Haiti's government has regularly collapsed every decade or so. It is quite clear they are incapable of self government and should perhaps let someone more capable govern them until they get their bearings together.


reply to post by Thepreye


what does that even mean? The people who did it are dead. move on.

Originally posted by NoHierarchy


So all a government has to do is wait it out and they no longer owe victims ANYTHING? That's pretty slimy... ESPECIALLY when Haiti had ZERO recourse.

Yes. I would not have it any other way. The people who start wars are responsible for those wars. The people who fight those wars are responsible for those wars. The people after them or who stop them absolve themselves of the actions of their ancestors.

You don't chose to enter into a government and told you owe someone money for something you never did. If I was the American president I'd just flat out tell Opec and China we don't owe them anything. I'm the new president. I absolve the errs of my forebearer. Don't like it? tough. Destroy our international credit? Move on and repair it.

I could hardly care about the rules traditions and regulations of this miserable rock we call Earth. I am not responsible for some retard's actions and if I choose to throw away his wrongs and absolve myself of them it is fully my right to do so.

[edit on 18-8-2010 by Gorman91]

[edit on 18-8-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91


but its not the son

its the organization

if a CEO decides to fire someone without proper cause, than the CEO gets replaced, it means you cant do anything against the corporation? just against the man?

that doesnt make sense

reply to post by Faiol


Sure it does. Those who willingly and knowingly go along with a murder or violent act are to blame. If the corporation is the tool they use, it is not to blame.

TO borrow a phrase, guns don't kill people. People kill people with guns. The gun is not responsible. It is an intimate item. The next person to take the gun is not responsible for what the previous owners of the gun did with the gun.

Originally posted by Gorman91
Sure it does. Those who willingly and knowingly go along with a murder or violent act are to blame. If the corporation is the tool they use, it is not to blame.

TO borrow a phrase, guns don't kill people. People kill people with guns. The gun is not responsible. It is an intimate item. The next person to take the gun is not responsible for what the previous owners of the gun did with the gun.

But as someone mentioned earlier, that would mean every time a country's government changed hands, the new government could write off all the previous debt ( nothing to do with us, guv' ).

Originally posted by Gorman91


what does that even mean? The people who did it are dead. move on.

If you step out side of your preconceived ideas on the subject and read the words of my post and perhaps, to help contextualise, the post it was replying to, all will become clear, hopefully.

Originally posted by psychederic
"the denial by the United States of Cuban liability for debts incurred by the Spanish colonial regime." (etc etc etc etc )

Every country should pay its odious debt ? please do it ...

An odious debt shall no be paid : people sovereignty in their country : AND MONEY ( OR DEBT ) IS NOT IMPORTANT !

Money is nothing : change your money : and everything runs well !

I believe that all colonial governments should repay the colonies that they exploited over the years.

I would actually go further, and would approve of an entire wealth-redistribution process between countries ( similar to what the EU has done between member states ).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a naïve idealist - I got over that phase about a decade ago - in that I know there's absolutely no chance of this actually happening.

It seems strange to me, when in the West, people preach compassion and fairness, yet tacitly approve of the Darwinian ''survival of the fittest'' attitude, that leads to the inequalities between nations.

You say that money isn't important, but it clearly is the main reason that there's such a disparity in living standards throughout the world.

There's a clear correlation between a country's wealth and their standard of living.

[edit on 18-8-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]

Keep it in context though.
the corporation is an entity that employs and the actions of the CEO against it's current employees is relevant however is the corporation still responsible to the great grandson of someone they fired wrongly 200 years ago, i think not.

Haiti should become an overseas region of France much like French Polynesia, New Caledonia, Martinique, Reunion, Guadalupe, St. Martin, etc. They get the best of both worlds - internal self government over domestic affairs while France controls defense, foreign affairs, law enforcement, citizenship, and justice.

en.wikipedia.org...

So based on this information, why is anyone using France as a reference point?

Is Haiti willing to become a colony of France again?

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


The people who did it are still responsible, but yes basically that's the point. But if the next people continue the wrongs, they are just as bad. IE, Obama has not ended the wars. he shares the wrong of Bush for starting it. Perhaps greater so for making it worse.

You can switch hands around, but if the same continues, all are guilty. If the next guys in stops it, they are not responsible.

I really fail to see the point of debt at all.

As toe Good Mr. Jefferson once said, perhaps the Treasury department will reveal it point to existing in due time.

Buy what you can afford. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. If the next person in control stops owning the thing bought, they don't have the debt because the item is gone.

I'm I the only person in this world sick and tired of black people trying to scam money and calling it reparations. I've been to Haiti and France - one is a hole in the ground the other isnt. Africa mostly a hole in the ground while Europe isnt.
Who wants to live in Jamaica or any other predominantly black area ?

Everyone tiptoes around that simple fact, there is no place in this world that's a majority of black people that's a nice place to live - none.

I was in NO right before Katrina - those people made it a disaster not the other way around. Same with Haiti.

If you respect the truth realize it's racist there's no two ways about it. With that in mind tell Haiti to go to hell. Maybe the Fugees can fix it, that would be awesome but no one living is entitled to feed off the suffering and hardship of the dead and claim it's legitimate.

[edit on 18-8-2010 by circuitsports]

Originally posted by Faiol
justice is not very common in this planet

You got that right.

In a world where rational people believe a loving God would visit horrible devastation and suffering on a people because they allegedly prayed to be freed from slavery of all things but to a different God, yet that same loving God is perfectly content to bless the former slave-owners and not hold them responsible for actions of the recent past with any level of equal hardship you can just forget about justice.

- Lee

reply to post by circuitsports


What can I say at least you're honest in your opinion unlike many of your racist brothers and sisters on the board maybe even in this thread who hide behind double speak and false reasoning.

reply to post by lee anoma


I honestly beg to question what is justice. Is it not agreed upon revenge? Revenge has no place. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Far better it be to admit they were wrong than pay what is simply a revenge payment for the actions of men from several generations before.

To me, Justice is God's matter. Not man's. Sure put people away for prison. But that's because they are a hazard, not necessarily for justice.

[edit on 18-8-2010 by Gorman91]