Attention: There Is Already a Mosque Near the WTC Site

I wonder if anyone asked if you can build a Christian church in the middle of Ryadh, the capital city of Saudi Arabia.

Don't be foolish. If the flux is one directional, it is called invasion.

Or does the ones building the mosque in one block away from the ground zero have the willingness to consent to the idea of building a Christian church in Ryadh?

Don't be hypocritical.

reply to post by notsoperfect

False equivalency? Why would we 1.) want to be like Saudi Arabia or 2.) build a church where there are few if any Christians?

How about building more US military bases in Saudi Arabia? That is a good part of the reason the radicalized extremists attacked us for. They did not like our bases or our businesses there.

Originally posted by notsoperfect
Or does the ones building the mosque in one block away from the ground zero have the willingness to consent to the idea of building a Christian church in Ryadh?

Why would the American citizens who want to build this have any say over what buildings are allowed in Riyadh?

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Military base and the Christian church can not be compared to be equivalent. I'm wondering about the mentality of the ones building the mosque in front of the nose where the pain is reminded for the Americans. I don't think Islam is a tolerant religion, then why should they expect to be treated with any tolerance?

The proof is that there is no Christian church in Ryadh.

This intolerant religion wil breed the same menace in America.

That's the problem. It is a virus.

Beware of it. Europe has been suffering from it for a long time already.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


What are you trying to state Storm? Where are all the horrible comments against Christians that I've supposedly posted...in which i need post something defending them?

In my own humble opinion, I think organized religion altogether promotes persecution and hate upon others...it doesn't matter what side of the coin you are on.

In religious beliefs, the grass is always greener on YOUR SIDE.

My point is that many of the people who have been defending the wealthiest, richest, .1 percent of Americans from paying more taxes...in defense of the Constitution (as is often repeated)....yet they completely ignore it on this issue.

It's extremely hypocritical. You know it is. I don't know a single Muslim knowingly...not one. I know many Christians....my parents are quite religious. My stepmother even teaches Sunday School and it is church usually 2-3 days a week.

--------

Now...for arguments sake....there are too many Catholic priests who like to molest little boys. I think they are trying to push there child molesting agenda across our country and I don't think we should have any more catholic churches built anywhere near 9/11 as children died there....nor should any church be built anywhere surrounding a 5 mile radius of any school.

Get the point????????

reply to post by notsoperfect


What I mean by this is that it(Islam) will eat away your religious freedom as it grows bigger.

How do I know?

Look at what is happening(or has happened) in Ryadh.

So, you see now why the comparison is so valid?

And why I call it a virus?

reply to post by notsoperfect


Because Christianity was so tolerant in its eradication of the indigenous peoples of South America and Africa in order to spread its message. Should we be appalled when churches are built in these places considering that entire civilizations were wiped out in the name of God?

reply to post by notsoperfect


Double post.

[edit on 17-8-2010 by Xcalibur254]

And slowly we return once more to the argument that all Muslims are the same as Al Qaida terrorists. Some of you can try to dress it up however you like, but it's still plain old ugly ignorance. None of the anti-mosque people seem to be paying any attention at all to the fact that this other mosque has been around for decades and they never complained about it. Now, all of a sudden I suppose BOTH of these mosques should be forcibly removed? Who's the hypocrite here?

And since when should we model our rights and values on Saudi Arabia? Every time there's a debate like this, one side starts to say, "Well, THOSE guys don't allow this or that freedom in THEIR country. So, therefore," they always go on to conclude, "WE shouldn't allow that freedom in OUR country."

The people who truly understand and appreciate the meaning of religious freedom seem startlingly few and far between in America, of all places the country that was founded on just such a principle. I'm seriously disturbed by this.

Originally posted by notsoperfect
What I mean by this is that it(Islam) will eat away your religious freedom as it grows bigger.

I am not at all worried that a mosque in New York is going to convince a largely conservative American population to abandon its values of religious freedom. Are you??

[edit on 17-8-2010 by Magnus47]

Originally posted by notsoperfect
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

Military base and the Christian church can not be compared to be equivalent. I'm wondering about the mentality of the ones building the mosque in front of the nose where the pain is reminded for the Americans. I don't think Islam is a tolerant religion, then why should they expect to be treated with any tolerance?

The proof is that there is no Christian church in Ryadh.

This intolerant religion wil breed the same menace in America.

That's the problem. It is a virus.

Beware of it. Europe has been suffering from it for a long time already.

I wasn't saying that a military base is the equivalent. I was saying that's part of what pissed off the criminals who attacked America.

There are no Christians in Saudi Arabia. Why would you want a church there? But there are Christian churches in, I believe, every other country where Islam is the prevalent religion.

We're aware of it. Some of us still have faith in our values, principles, and laws. Muslims have lived in this country practically since its inception. www.dawanet.com...

Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?
Opponents To Meet With Developers On Troubling Issue

newyork.cbslocal.com...

Sources tell CBS 2’s Kramer that Gov. Paterson is concerned that Mayor Mike Bloomberg, a staunch supporter of putting the mosque at ground zero, and President Barack Obama, might be advising mosque leaders to dig in their heels and insist on the present location.

“Starting today, we’re going to begin addressing questions regarding park51. We’re open to any sensible discussion.”

Paterson’s office confirmed that discussions between his staff and the developer’s staff have been ongoing and said the governor expects to have a meeting scheduled in the near future.

Congressman King said the openness of the developers to a compromise will be the real test of their intentions.

“If the leaders of the mosque take up the governor on his proposal, it would show that their real intention is to bring people together,” he said. “And not just make a political statement by having a mosque at Ground Zero.”

There’s also the issue of separation of church and state, and whether the governor should provide state land for a mosque.

King said in this case it would be okay, especially if the compromise meets the need of both sides.

reply to post by centurion1211

You found a headline that screams insults for you - at people only "guilty" of the "crime" of not agreeing with you - so you can sheepishly hide behind that and say, "Hey, it wasn't me that called anyone anything."

Here it is for ya....I think many of the people against it are bigots....either for racial and/or religious reasons....some who are for it may be as well. It's quite easy to see that many of you always take the stance against any religion or color that isn't yours....often using the Constitution to hide behind.

NOT everyone is this way however. What is your stance hero?

reply to post by notsoperfect


FYI many secular Muslim countries have deliberately suppressed Islamic fundamentalists such a Libya, Syria, Algeria, Morocco, Jordan, Turkey, Egypt, and others. They don’t want or desire governments like the Taliban and the Iranian or Saudi Arabian theocracy

reply to post by inforeal

This was a very cool thread here (well most of it) that you might be interested in: Churches in the arab world?

reply to post by americandingbat


A man's family does not make him a terrorist. I would hardly care what his family is doing. One example of his shady past is that he took no opinion in Hamas and Israel. Of course he has an opinion. He said he'd rather not comment. Even I can say happily I do not care which barbarian wins that fight. He can't take a stand? Not even say both are wrong for fighting? And I've heard the government is paying for him to visit and build mosques which violates the separation of church and state.

Many things I do not know for sure or is missing from his background. The fact is that a cultural center is big. Religion is a small piece of the pie. We also have to ponder about his sexuality and behavior, for example. Because there's plenty of controversy over nambla people in the ymca. What's his policy towards a host of issues?

Like I said. I've volunteered in religious cultural centers. They all want to present their faith during activities to the young and needy. The question at hand is what brand of religion are they teaching? What exactly doe they support? Just as I would want a westbro baptist church member as far away from a ymca as possible, I would want a hamas supporter as far away from a cultural center as well.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


Christianity today is not considered an intolerant religion. Those countries today allow many different religions to flourish. On the other hand, where is the proof that the modern day Islam has any such tolerance?

Has it ever changed at all?

Has the Christianity changed since the conquistador or has it been the same from the beginning?

The message of the religion of the Christianity has never changed.

The more you get closer to the script, the more you have to become tolerant in Christianity.

In Islam, the situation is the other way around. The more you get closer to the script, the more violent you have to become.

That means that it makes people more intolerant and it will eat away your religious freedom as a member of the society living close to them.

You are breeding a seed of virus inside of your peaceful society.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


My point is that if Islam spreads like wild fire in America, you will not have any religious freedom. It will be like Saudi Arabia the mecca of Islam. How do I know it?

Just look at Saudi of today. That's your future of America where your children will not have the freedom to worship Christianity.

It doesn't take a leap of faith to know this can happen.

Hope you are not the one seeding this for your children.

reply to post by notsoperfect

I understood your point and addressed it. I have faith this will not happen. Millions of people of the Islamic faith have lived here for generations. We attempted to persecute Roman Catholics in the 19th century and made it through. We dealt with slavery and segregation and immigration influxes over the centuries and made it through. And we'll make it through this too.

reply to post by notsoperfect


I see the point you're trying to make, but I disagree:

The more you get closer to the script, the more you have to become tolerant in Christianity.

Actually since you mentioned the idea of unchanging Christian values, I assume you are referring to the Old Testament, before it was "changed" into the New Testament. In both books you have some very intolerant things, but particularly in the Old Testament, you have examples where you are instructed to stone your children to death if they are being disagreeable.

If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father and mother, who does not heed them when they discipline him, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his town at the gate of that place. They shall say to the elders of his town, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death. So you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel will hear, and be afraid.
(Deut. 21:18-21)

Now, I'm not trying to say the Bible doesn't teach any good, tolerant values. But just like the Quran, you have examples that are in line with modern opinions and human rights, and examples that aren't.

reply to post by David9176


The mosque is a political diversion used to hide the fact that there is so many jobless, the fact that American economy is at ruins, and the fact that Iran recently announced it will sell oil in any currency other than dollar.

We all know it is a political diversion, that is why even Obama jumped in, because he knows it too, it was a good opportunity for him to divert attention from his failures, it worked didn't it?

Even ATS is dumber than it looks.