Attention: There Is Already a Mosque Near the WTC Site

reply to post by Soldier of God


Obviously these groups of evil, unnamed people that you speak of are deliberately trying to again torment the people of America through religious tolerance and the first amendment.

Originally posted by hadriana
If there's already one there, then that is just more reason that they don't need to put this new one there.

'One more reason' suggests there are other reasons, which of course there aren't. Having one there already isn't valid either - how many churches are there near ground zero? I'd bet on a there being a good few, and I'd bet a new church wouldn't cause half the hate that's being spouted on ATS on this issue.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


"S&F.

Maybe some of our more bigotted friends here at ATS will learn something here and rethink their small minded ways. I do find they tend not to let the facts get in the way of some good ole' fashioned American right-wing Christian idiocy, but I live in hope. "

I guess that would be one post mentioning Christians......................I'm glad it's not trollish or insulting at all either......Funny, anyone against this mosque is either a bigot, a racist, stupid, a fool, a Christian, a White Supremecist, an Islamaphobe......you pick the insult, and only smart people are for it....seems to be the way on ATS anymore, if you don't like something a Muslim does automatically those names apply......no matter what the persons reasoning, and then we have threads like why all the anger on ATS, I'd say it's a never ending cycle.

[edit on 17-8-2010 by adifferentbreed]

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by Gargamel

 

The imam's old mosque is approximately half a mile away or 12 city blocks. The imam has had a mosque in the neighborhood for over 27 years. The new Islamic center will be approximately 2 city blocks away from ground zero, has no line of sight to or from ground zero, and will be approximately 13 stories tall, by no means the tallest building in its block of blocks.

Is it tall enough to fly an airplane into???

Originally posted by David9176
(The headline is taken FROM THE ARTICLE)

Good for you. You found a headline that screams insults for you - at people only "guilty" of the "crime" of not agreeing with you - so you can sheepishly hide behind that and say, "Hey, it wasn't me that called anyone anything."

Weak ...

Are you also one of those that speaks louder to people that don't understand English?

Unfortunetly this won't change many minds but flagged to promote information instead of disinformation.

Originally posted by Gargamel
Was the new mosque going to replace the existing mosque 800 feet away? If not what purpose was the new mosque supposed to serve seeing as there was one already close by?

I don't have a link, but I heard or read from what I considered a reliable source that the new one was replacing at least one of them as only 20% of their congregation could fit in another one at a time.

reply to post by adifferentbreed


I'm not crazy about the headline myself. Or the way Wonkette tends to put things. But as with so much today, it's sensational and attention getting.

Kind of like the very phrase "The Mosque at Ground Zero" when it's in fact an Islamic community center in lower Manhattan.

reply to post by centurion1211


I don't think anyone that is on the side of the mosque project being built is denying that they're calling the people against it bigots...

Are you also one of those that speaks louder to people that don't understand English?

reply to post by Pellevoisin

I suspect that many USAmericans (and quite a few of my fellow Canadians in western Canada) would likewise posit that Islam in general is an hostile 'ideology' rather than a faith worthy of coverage under the First Amendment. While the argument is without finesse, I believe this is the strongest argument opponents to the new Ground Zero mosque (and opponents of Islam in general) could make if they chose to do so.

Every humans inalienable right to believe in whatever they choose to is not limited to any particular religion. Further this natural right is constitutionally protected.

In one example of numerous, the Old Testament endorses slavery - Going so far as to tell in what manner slave-owner may beat his slave - Does that sound like a bit of a hostile 'ideology'?

This is exactly the reason that people allow the government to infringe upon their rights and violate the very foundation of our country. FEAR... FEAR of the different... FEAR of the unknown... FEAR because they told you so.

[edit on 17-8-2010 by misinformational]

reply to post by Whyhi

That the project was being abandoned was a whole other disinformational fiasco yesterday. Link. Not true (see page 1 and then pages 7 and 8 of that thread.)

reply to post by Whyhi

Not everyone who is against the project is a bigot. But some clearly are, and only they really know who they really are.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Of course, you're correct. Emotive issues combined with the MSM illusion of fact, all mixed in with the kind of in-built, apparently completely objective moral superiority that you only find in the USA is a potent combination.

For me personally the whole thing is a non-issue - it's ridiculous to get upset about it from where I'm sat. It's such a complicated issue I could happily hit the word limit several times whilst explaining *why* I think it's a non-issue, but I suspect nobody who'd benefit from a bit of open-mindedness would ever read it. The more small minded you are, the more firmly the blinkers stay on.

Religious tolerance and freedom are supposed to be embraced in the USA, but based on the threads here on this issue you'd think people were mostly intolerant right-wing supremacists, which I'm sure isn't the case? I used to love the 'idea' of America when I was a kid, I always wanted to live there. Now it seems to have turned into a virtual island of paranoid people with big guns, lashing out at anyone who looks at it the wrong way. It's very sad.

More information at this thread if you're interested.

 

reply to post by hadriana

 

This is not to be merely a mosque but a community center with an auditorium, pool, public meeting rooms, childrens services, and all sorts of things for the entire community to partake of and participate in.

Well, if you ask ME - all these places really need to start paying TAXES.

We have community centers around here that are open to EVERYONE - they aren't exclusive - but they are limping for lack of tax revenue while all the churches are building basketball courts, auditoriums, and all sorts of things for THE CHURCH community to participate in.

Now don't go an tell me that your Mosques community center is going to allow my mixed religion homeschool group to meet there for no or negligable cost, Jews, Athiests, Wiccans, and Neopagans.

So if it AIN'T for everyone, don't say it is for the community. It's for YOUR religion. Just like the megachurch's have their own private little exclusive sports complexes - while folks that aren't religious - have NOTHING....or have to use limping public facilities that can't get the participation they need.

BLEH.

That is prime real estate down there. They don't need all these tax free exclusive places, churches, mosques, or otherwise.
BLEH

Originally posted by Soldier of God

Is it tall enough to fly an airplane into???

Was ground level of the Pentagon tall enough to fly an airplane into?

What point are you trying to make anyway?

reply to post by adifferentbreed


Oooo you just massively edited your post while I was replying. Cheating surely? Good job I checked. You've also 'mis-replied' - I wrote the post you quoted, not Lucidity.

Sorry if you thought my post was rude or insulting, I had my tongue very firmly in my cheek when I was writing it. It was meant to be in-keeping with the tone of the articles headline, which I thought was a bit provocative but probably fundamentally valid. I worked on the basis that the only people who'd get annoyed by what I said would have mentally fit themselves into one of the social groups I'd mentioned, otherwise why would anyone be annoyed?

I would defend anybodies right to object to the mosque (it's actually a community center), but I've seen NO valid argument at all for it not to be there. Please feel free to voice something intelligent, but I can't think of any reason to object to it at all.

reply to post by eightfold

The things that made this country great are to a large degree still there. They're just a little clouded at the moment by a relatively very few people who can make a lot of noise and a sensationalistic media and blogosphere who help. Unfortunately this noise is what the world hears.

Overall, this is a test of our values, principles and laws...the ones we stand behind for everyone. And I for one am sure we'll stand up to the test in the end and do the right thing.

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

"S&F.

Maybe some of our more bigotted friends here at ATS will learn something here and rethink their small minded ways. I do find they tend not to let the facts get in the way of some good ole' fashioned American right-wing Christian idiocy, but I live in hope. "

I guess that would be one post mentioning Christians......................I'm glad it's not trollish or insulting at all either......Funny, anyone against this mosque is either a bigot, a racist, stupid, a fool, a Christian, a White Supremecist, an Islamaphobe......you pick the insult, and only smart people are for it....seems to be the way on ATS anymore, if you don't like something a Muslim does automatically those names apply......no matter what the persons reasoning, and then we have threads like why all the anger on ATS, I'd say it's a never ending cycle.

[edit on 17-8-2010 by adifferentbreed]

I disagree that anyone against this Islamic center is necessarily any of those things you mention. Some no doubt are, based on the massive amounts of comments on the internet that prove that very thing.

From page 1 of this thread:

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
No one seems to want facts when 1.) their emotions are involved and 2.) there's a pretty much a one-sided media blitz going on for their minds.

Seems like some people still think the media is fair and balanced. Or cares about truth and facts and remaining objective.

In addition, one of the very tricky things about this issue is that there are so many "reasons" and so many different factors at play. People are united behind one "cause" but for a dozen different reasons, ranging from the purely emotional and caring, to thinking it's insensitive to the families, to opportunistic reasons (Walid Shoebat and Pamela Geller...sell books and speaking engagements), to the religious and to the political (uniting a faction or getting votes). It's the perfect wedge issue too.

reply to post by eightfold


Nope, I didn't misreply, I answered the person who asked who had mentioned Christianity, that would not be you........I did edit my statement as is often done on here, however, if it makes you happy, I'll refrain from doing so again, as I'm not sure what the cheating thing is about. The insults here directed at the people against this mosque.......are astounding. Good thing only those of us against this mosque are judgemental.

Thank you so much for this info. The whole thing is now a storm in a tea cup! Still prepare to hear people blaming Obama (the arch reptilian moslem from Niburian Illuminati) for the first Mosque.
Rgds
T

reply to post by hadriana


Actually this is to be an interfaith community center and open to everyone. The imam has been working with other religious groups in the neighborhood for years.