The Overpopulation Myth, The Underpopulation Crisis

reply to post by strangleholder1


plus it seems like the male population to female population is like 3 to 1 except in china which is worse.

I love how people say we are not overpopulated, but forget we have to live with mother nature and her creatures.

Originally posted by Gorman91
We cannot go extinct. because you should dang well know somewhere out there is a base deep underground for such a purpose. And with many nations now talking about a moon "arc", humanity is about to become immortal to everything except a super nova.

It is possible to provoke our own demise. But hardly our own extinction.

I disagree. I think that mankind is a transitional species. It won't be very long (geologically speaking) before we have enough control over our own genetics to modify ourselves in whatever way we see fit. You think tattooing is popular? Wait until we can give ourselves wings.

Likewise, our machines are getting smarter and smarter. It also won't be long until a machine will interact with us in such a way that you couldn't tell whether it was alive an self-aware or not, and at that point, it won't make any difference. So they will be the ones who self-replicate and evolve by generation, and who take to the stars to explore the galaxy, because we can't pass the physical. And they will claim the resources of the planet as our superiors.

So I don't expect humanity to last very long. I would be surprised if we lasted another 5,000 years, which is a blink of an eye, really. Then the trans-humans and intelligent machines can fight it out.

reply to post by Blue Shift


Time machines will be invented within the century. There are no time travelers. You can be guaranteed that humanity went extinct within the next two centuries, let alone 5000 years. Hell, in 5000 years we wouldn't even be human any more. We'd probably be in pods in our own matrix. There would be nor reason to exist.

Warp ships are going to be getting built by the end of the century. We really will have no reason to stay here. I wouldn't be surprised to see Earth as a nature preserve.

But now you know this. And time is not set in stone. So you can change it. I did do some creepy time traveler tests once with a friend. Something along the lines of "remember this place" so that if he became a time traveler, he would leave something behind. Well it worked for him but not for me. Take from that what you want.


Anywho, back on topic, the concept of population is very much so a myth. Man's reach always exceeds his grasp. Technology will always save the day and keep us going.

Originally posted by Silicis n Volvo

Originally posted by LiveForever8

The reality is that governments are actually pleading for (and offering incentives too) families who have more than one or two children.

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far

really? the last time i checked it was illegal in china to have more than 1 child.

China has it right. Even here in America, families need regulation. They shouldn't have more than 3 children.

Originally posted by Aronolac
Impressive statistics but manipulated to produce a wrong answer - the overpopulation of the planet is the most serious problem mankind faces, and for the most part, he is totally ignorant of it.

I am in agreement with the poster who questioned the sanity of people who deny reality about population. Too many people is dangerous and it will have consequences far beyond us just talking about it. This world and its resources can support about 3 billion people easily; it can not sustain itself approaching 8 billion people.

I Strongly Disagree.

Overpopulation is not the worst threat to the planet. Resource Management is. That's where the problem is, it's not the People.

We have More than enough land and food to survive for thousands of years even if the population doubles many times before we ever get close to running out of space or food.

1) We need to stop raping the earth so she can heal herself. This means No taking of oil or coal out of the ground.

2) We need to use Only energy resources that are self sustaining, like wind, solar and water. To make use of the kinetic motion energy already existing without taking things we cannot replace to create energy.

3) We need to put back the Trees in areas where trees will grow to sustain our oxygen supply. We don't need to cut down trees to make land to live on. There is already tons of unused land where no trees will grow.

5) We can branch out onto the surface of the ocean or in underwater communities to help take pressure off of land resources for living space. The idea is not to crowd a too dense a population into an entire area where the whole of the land mass gets filled up. We need urban and rural areas alike with forests and deserts lakes, etc to keep in balance with nature.

6) Lastly, we can go to Space. This should not be needed for hundreds of thousands of years if we manage the Earth correctly today.



[edit on 17-8-2010 by JohnPhoenix]

Originally posted by dragnet53
reply to post by strangleholder1

 

plus it seems like the male population to female population is like 3 to 1 except in china which is worse.

I love how people say we are not overpopulated, but forget we have to live with mother nature and her creatures.

This isn't so. There are some areas of China and India that have some drastic disportion between genders. This is not quite as bad as you make it out for the whole.

The over all for fertile aged people (15-64), is there are 94 females to ever 100 males over all of China. Metropolitan areas seem to not be as unequal. I would suspect this is a function of wealth allowing males in metropolitian areas to attract females in from non-urban areas. Leaving these areas with a greater deficit.

This figure is close to 90 females to every 100 males in the prime fertile years of 20-35. And 88 females to 100 males in the under 20 range. Indicating the effect is becoming more pronounced over all.

This effect may be worse with the number of girls who are being brougt up not by families but in creches. I don't have figures for the total numbers being adopted out of China, mostly girls but it seems to be roughly in the 50,000 a year range.

This is probably intentional. How many people your country can have is dependent on how many women you have, not how many men. Fewer women, fewer children.

One woman with ten men? She still maxs out about 8-20 children. One man ten women? He maxes out around 100-200 children.

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[edit on 2010/8/17 by Aeons]

reply to post by malcr


People are starving, not because of overpopulation but because of economical greed, fraud, corruption and exploitation.

We live in a criminal financial system which robs and exploits everyone and keeps 2/3 of the world below the poverty line.

It is not to do with overpopulation.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
In 1900 there was roughly 1billion humans on Earth.

With advances in farming techniques, Refrigeration(storage) techniques, transportation abilities, the population capacity quickly rose as a result.

We went from a dirty polluted world of 1billion, to a no where near as dirty and polluted world with well over 6billion in less than 100 years.

3rd paragraph. I do not understand this at all. I would think 100 years ago this world was a lot less polluted than it is today.

reply to post by wcitizen


You realize you are in the top 10% and likely in the top 5%, right?

reply to post by snowen20


Sadly, the conspiracy is to stop us from doing this. This is how people naturally lived in the past. We have been separated from that by agenda driven education systems and mass propaganda, coupled with 'scientific' sleight of hands and pharmaceutical criminality.

Now they are trying to make natural remedies illegal.

Remembering we are part of the earth, remembering nature are all things which remind us of who we really are. The snakes don't want us to remember who we are - so they put armies of people, mountains of knowledge and billions of dollars into dumbing us down.

The day the majority of us remember who we are is the day of the demise of the snakes, and they know it.

Today every baby that borns, steals the meal of another persons right in front of his mouth and cause him to starve and die, be it in africa or in asia.
Not all earths soil is fertile for farming!
Overpopulation problem still exist.
Underpopulation is about age rates and economy. Overpopulation issue cares about the resources and balancing it by war, pandemics so on, in order to prevent a total starvation.

reply to post by SeventhSeal


exactly!

I hate the women who want more than 5 kids. I feel sorry for that dude who married her.

I have driven from LA to DC nonstop. I've crossed the country 4 times. I grew up in a small town and moved to a big city. It is quite evident that we are in no danger of overpopulation, certainly not in North America. Out of 3000 miles driven, no more than 300 of that is through developed urban areas. The rest is just............space. Open space. Forest and desert and rolling hills and plains.

You know who is complaining about overpopulation? City folks. You know who is complaining about human-caused global warming? City folks.

Then again, city folks have always needed something to complain about. That's why they move to the city.

Here's an idea... eliminate the ruling class. That'll free up some space. Tear down those mansions and massive office buildings. Throw out all the private jets. That will do away with a good chunk of pollution. And insanity.

Originally posted by darkl0rd
Today every baby that borns, steals the meal of another persons right in front of his mouth and cause him to starve and die, be it in africa or in asia.

I disagree.

How many babies did you kill being born?

So.. you are an admitted Child Murderer? OMG !

If those babies that are killed are just going to steal food from another baby and cause them to die, then why should you fret about them being born in the first place? Doesn't it make better sense that they were never born? You just prevented those murdering babies from taking another life - by being baby murderer yourself!

Sure, it's circular and funny but it makes no logical sense.

I believe if you Can afford to feed your baby so they can grow up healthy an become self sustaining then you should be allowed to have as many kids as you want.

If any child on the planet is starving to death it is only because the parents were foolish for having kids when they could not provide for them. (orphans are an exception) Or that the food is actually there but the powers that be are corrupt and not allowing the people to have the food, as is often times the case.

Either way these problems are fixable.


[edit on 17-8-2010 by JohnPhoenix]

The world IS overpopulated!

The problem, the biggest danger involved here is not enough fresh water!!!

Let me repeat that:

NOT ENOUGH FRESH WATER!!!

There are disputes over water now.

You can read all about water shortages on the net. This info is available for anyone to see.

I could cram 10,000 plants into my house - but if I have no water - the plants will die.

It's the same thing with over population. People need drinking water. People need food which needs water to grow.

Desalinate ocean water? Its stupid expensive and you can't just keep taking that water either - you'll foul up the weather.

There is a LIMITED supply of fresh water and we are running out now.

There are too many people here now, we do not need to keep expanding.

Read here about how one the largest US underground aquifers is running dry...

Largest Aquifer in the US is Running Dry

This is NOT good news folks and it's happening all over the world.

We are running out of fresh water.

Some books I've read which others might find interesting:

Water Wars - by Diane Raines Ward
Water Follies - by Robert Glennon

Also reading a book right now about global food waste - this is called:
Waste -by Tristram Stuart. Pretty interesting so far. In a depressing sort of way.

I have to go on about these things, I studied Environmental Science in school. It is no joke. The cold hard facts are out there for all to see.

Please do not write this entire subject off as "Tree Hugging". That's just a silly stereotype used to piss people off, sway them in the other direction.

This is serious business here, everything from global issues to whether or not there is Asbestos in your child's school.

There are only so many resources to go around and what we do affects others. People don't really realize this though, until something happens in their back yard.

Originally posted by whitl103
I have driven from LA to DC nonstop. I've crossed the country 4 times. I grew up in a small town and moved to a big city. It is quite evident that we are in no danger of overpopulation, certainly not in North America. Out of 3000 miles driven, no more than 300 of that is through developed urban areas. The rest is just............space. Open space. Forest and desert and rolling hills and plains.

You know who is complaining about overpopulation? City folks. You know who is complaining about human-caused global warming? City folks.

Then again, city folks have always needed something to complain about. That's why they move to the city.

Here's an idea... eliminate the ruling class. That'll free up some space. Tear down those mansions and massive office buildings. Throw out all the private jets. That will do away with a good chunk of pollution. And insanity.

Really? I'm not from the city and I know a lot of non city folks who actually believe and know the facts of overpopulation. I'm glad you've driven across the country...but that doesn't change the fact that we're a very overpopulated planet.

I'm also glad to see your point about free and open space. What? We're suppose to fill that up as well? The forests of America have been destroyed and damaged enough by our species.

[edit on 17-8-2010 by SeventhSeal]

Originally posted by snowen20
Suppose over time the human species evolves mentally in such a way that they do not find nature beautiful as you do but rather their own artistic constructs?

having found a way to sustain ecology artificially somehow would that be as bad? I know that for some the idea of a Hypercity miles thick, covering the entire earth is over the top, but if you can find a way to deal with the problems why not?

it may be that people develop to such an extent that they have no specific need for earth to supply for them and use it merely as a platform to dwell on rather than a life form to live with.

I wouldn't call that "evolving"...more like "devolving".

You'd be okay with turning ourselves and the planet into some sort of machine -- if we could -- just so we could overpopulate the crap out of this planet?

My definition of "overpopulation" is when the balance and harmony between humans and nature is compromised as a result of increase in human population.

It has nothing to do with just our ability to survive... it's everything to do with our ability to survive and yet continue to progress/evolve to new heights. If you truly believe that "progress" means disconnecting ourselves from nature, rather than learning from it and strengthening our symbiotic relationship with it, than I really don't know what to say.

The world is overpopulated and it will continue to be so until we finally manage to progress through the "bottleneck" of our times -- in which there is no guarantee.

The fact that many of you still hold onto such a flawed definition of the word "overpopulation" tells me we still have a ways to go.

[edit on 17/8/10 by Navieko]

so i couldnt help but notice you failed to mention China ...in anyway, saying we aren't over populated but under populated, is a very flawed view indeed (perhaps if we had more then earth)

Sure we aren't at our peak limit for population but we will gradually get there and ask oursevles "oh no what do we do?" in a panic killing eachother seems like a good way to limit population but isnt very civil.

You speak about if all land was divided equally to all people that everyone would have a nice piece of land, also a flawed concept, that all the people of the earth could live in a land mass the size of texas, if the chiness are struggling to keep thier population under control with the amount of land that they own (which is alot more than texas) then why are they over populated? why is it that most of the population lives in tiny little rooms like crappy apartment buildings.

I'm not saying you are wrong , to be honest i like the idea of there only being enough people to fill a texas sized area. But on the off hand that say we are 12 billion, then would you consider us overpopulated? the higher number of people the more likely diseases and superviruses will occure, we shouldnt try to increase our numbers for many reasons.

too many humans in the world already: Look on the news, crime and poverty are the biggest "sore thumbs" out there incresing the population isnt going to bring the crime rate down, only up along with taxes food and shelter cost, nothing is free nor should we execpt it to be.

to be honest i think underpopulation is better than overpopulation, plus we are terrible beings to start with, we are greedy violent and sexual deviants, this planet doesnt need more.

In conslucion i believe that the perfect population set for our species is 2-3 billion people on this planet, unless we move to other planets

reply to post by Gorman91


"And yes, humanity is a virus species. That's been quite obvious since we left Africa and slaughtered everything that was hominid and not human".

I don't think the above view of the humanity is sound. Humanity has the purpose of life greater than that of any animals or any plants.

We perceive "self" more so than any animals. The purpose of the universe may be the ultimate self awareness, to be able to see the beauty of the creation of the universe and to become the creator him(her)self.

Is it an ultimate arrogance or the ultimate destiny of the humans to dream about it?

It is inevitable that we will face insurmountable odds soon and all we will be left with is hope. In this new world soon coming whether 2012 or not this cycle cannot continue to repeat. The tools mankind has at its disposal for total population devastation means the self destructive course mankind has inevitably been following is near an end. There is no simpler math than calculating the lack of tolerance mankind has for itself and its loath of its own ignorance regarding its "destiny". We are all mad with thoughts of grandeur or ideologies of modern day slavery. If there be no God then mankind is doomed, an alien race wouldnt show pity on us for fear we have the potential of spreading our hate throughout the traversed universe. The time is now to act and the only way to prevail is to cut off the feet and then the head of this culture of self hate. Who taught you to feel helpless? Who taught you to fear? Who taught you to allow this abuse to transpire? Who benefits the most? There is your enemy, the cell mate of your comfort zone. Please love thyself, know thyself and pride thyself and arse will soon follow.