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Originally posted by Romeo
and if I hear one more idiot say the world is just jealous of the US freedoms etc I will have to piss myself.
Originally posted by CazMedia
27sj, i noticed that you were not willing to re-stste for the reccord that bush was AWOL and explain how he got an honorable discharge for being AWOL.....hmm, so you wont admit here that your statement was OPINION, yet im willing to state that you will continue to believe the delusions about this AWOL idea as well as continue to spew this LIE to others not on ATS.
BRING FACTS TO HATE BUSH FOR, NOT HYPE!!!! (millionth and 1 times asked for)
Which companies are you alleging are corrupt and can you show any evidence of this corruption, or are you blindly accepting the rhetoric?
As far as "passing money to them thru contributions" goes...you do realize that $$$ donated to a politicians campaign is NOT the persons money and is highly monitored and accounted for and can be tracked? So where is the profit for Bush? Are you alledging secret payoffs? If so BRING THE FACTS NOT SPECULATION!?
Awarding contracts to? Many companies all got to give their sales pitch to the FEDS to compete and it just so happens that HALIBURTON was awarded the contract....WHY? Perhaps because they were the only company of its size and kind that could provide the type and level of services that would be needed? Show me another company with even close to the same capasity. Do you even know the types of things Haliburton does or are you just saying their corrupt because they are partly into oil and have had Cheney work for them?
Should i bother to dig up the same type of non issue sleaze on Kerry and his contributors? Im sure he's got vested intrests in some of their success as well as they in him.
American soldiers COST alot of $$$ to start with, they volunteer to serve the nation to in PART protect monetary/economic intrests of the nation as well as physically protecting it. How valuable would those soldiers lives be if the economy collapsed? Could we even afford them if it did?
27sj continues a baseless rant,
Hmm did Bush jr own some interests in kuwait around the time of Desert Storm? Your alledging he did, you show us this is fact. But lets say he did.
SO WHAT? that was what, 10 years before he even ran for office? So you hate our current president because he had legit business dealings a decade ago? What a crap argument...again BRING SOMETHING RELAVENT AND NOT HYPED DEMOCRATIC TRIPE THAT PLAYS MORE TO EMOTION AND LESS TO FACTS.
As far as your ASSUMPTION that Bush Sr instigated in part to save Jr's oil rig...what a shallow way to gauge this situation. So the fact that the USA/coalition was ousting a dictator known for attacking neighbors and WMD use that had occupied a neighboring country wasnt a good reason for dessert storm? Is that the nobel reason your putting down? Liberating a country from invasion by a dictator is bad?
I'll give you that "families in power" have the potential for corruption/collusion with one another. But unless you can show illegal actions between the 2, what are you doing? Your again trying to hate the President for something YOU MADE UP IN YOUR HEAD! Are facts meaningless to your vote casting process?
Exactly how many families in lets say, the energy sector, do you think that are this wealthy to be involved in things at the national/world market level? mabey a handfull? It seems like a basic assumption that they would know and interact with each other...who else can they interact at this magnitude with? Me? You? we probably will get to wash their dishes after their function, not help decide energy policy.
Have you seen how many Saudis have died from them trying to reform away from fundamentalist Islamism? They have seen a drastic increase in internal terror strikes since they sided with the west.
How easy do you think it is to decide to now persecute a segment of your culture that previously you at the minimum allowed to flourish, as well as perpetuated their attitudes? Its not like flicking a switch, and the Saudi's are paying for this now in blood on their streets. It also seems like the Saudi's have BEEN trying to reform things there for a long time as they were already working with the USA bases there for over a decade as well.
We need to assist them, but not meddle internally as long as they remain a stable place in the area. Change IS in the works there, just not as quick as some might like.
It didnt take 30,000 shells that i believe we gave him to wipe out a village of a few thousand. (im researching that # for you)
Yes even I am amused at Rummy shaking hands with Saddam, however, your pulling this out of context. That moment was at a time where the USA was activly trying to contain the spread of radical fundamentalist Islamic rule by the religous leaders in IRAN....so we helped a non religious state (Iraq) fight its enemy. Dont forget the cold war for the preceeding 50 years where we were playing chess with the world with the soviets, backing nations against the other side. All of these factors led to what is the middle east now...and they were going on for decades before Bush Jr got into office.
Trying to pin the results of 50 yrs of involvement in the mid east on Bush Jr gives him a little too much credit dont you think? Bush Jr had nothing to do with Rummy shaking Saddams hand...was he even govenor when that happened? Im glad you have an inside track to either Bush's motives that they havnt stated....OPINION OR FACT?
The JESUS issue...
Seperation of church and state does NOT mean that any president or gov official cant have a religious belief OR that he can't use it to guide his decisions....It means that the Government will not force or deny a religon onto the people in an institutionalized form....(IE laws for/against a state religon)
again, you use misinformed HYPE to say you hate Bush.
Do you have any actual TANGIBLE, non-emotive, policy reasons to hate Bush? Or you just running off adrenaline and un-informed OPINIONS, UNVERIFIED SPECULATIONS, OR MISINFORMATION passed thru the couch potato masses in order to cast your vote?
you see I never posted anything about Bush being AWOL, although he certainly didn't sign up to go to Nam did he?
Bush may not have deserted by the definition of the word, but he sure avoided the war, he certainly did not sign up for it like Kerry,
Yeah, Im blindly accepting the rhetoric. Sorry.
I'm sure if I had solid proof of ..........
I CAN SPECULATE HOWEVER MUCH I WISH, IF EVERY DISCUSSION WAS VOID OF OPINION AND SPECULATION WE WOULD ALL BE ROBOTS!
Many companies got a chance to bid? Sorry, it was a no-bid contract buddy.
The system has been awarding billions of dollars in military contracts to private firms.
Why did they get the no-bid contract to put out oil fires for the Army? “We are the only company in the United States that had the kind of systems in place, people in place, contacts in place, to do that kind of thing,” says Dominy.
But he acknowledges the perception of cronyism it creates, which is a view only a look inside the process could dispel. “In fact, I wish I could embed [critics] inside the Department of Defense contracting system. Once they’d done that, they’d have religion just like I do about how the system cannot be influenced,” he tells Kroft.
Even before the war in Iraq began March 20, the Bush administration was considering plans to help rebuild the country after fighting ceased. According to news reports in early March, the U.S. Agency for International Development secretly asked six U.S. companies to submit bids for a $900 million government contract to repair and reconstruct water systems, roads, bridges, schools and hospitals in Iraq.
the economy was doing great under Clinton, until your champion Bush came along.
Theres that noble cause I was expecting! You do not disappoint. Im sure they were very concerned about the people of that region
its not just the potential for corruption, some things are obvious, and their dealings are obviously corrupt. Just like the mafia
as you have said.
I would be dead.
We pulled most of our military out of Saudi Arabia last I heard. And we're talking about a brutal regime here, they can reign in militants much more quickly than you state. They know full well who they are and where. Change is not in the works, at best they are creating the illusion it is, and its got you snowed.
has been a major player as far back as he could have been.
He (BUSH) is forcing religion by passing laws against stem-cell research, passing laws banning gay marriage, and abortion rights just to name a few instances.
during Bush's press conference yesterday, he stated that if he knew before we went to war with Iraq, what we know now, he still wouldve invaded.
Originally posted by CazMedia
Im sorry I was addressing you with the wrong name....it was about 330am and i was getting bleary eyed and struggling to stay focused as it was late.
As you arent my grammar teacher
As we were obviously conversing and you appeared to have no problems understanding me....i question your concerns over this...seems petty and off topic. Im not going to jump thru hoops for you and personally dont care if i have a few gramatical/spelling errors. (Gramar errors left in for your further enjoyment)
It was good of you to ask if english was my second language tho as otherwise i feel you would have insulted everyone that posts here for whom english IS the second language, and who may not know the proper rules of english grammar or spelling.
Hmm desertion...AWOL...arent they the same? So you DID post something about this topic.
As Bush was in the national guard, it was entirely possible that his unit would have been activated, and he could have served in Nam. This is not burning his draft card or fleeing to Canada. This was service in a recognised branch of defense.
27jd fails to back up allegations of corruption here,
Well, hopefully spending time here with us trying to "DENY IGNORANCE" will help cure your blind eye and aid in your discerning rhetoric from fact.
surely you can, but dont be so suprised when someone calls you out on where the real facts are.
27jd struggles with this one,
Many companies got a chance to bid? Sorry, it was a no-bid contract buddy.
Also, because some of these contracts may deal with classified info/materials etc...mabey we the public dont really know the decision processes at the D.O.D. to be able to state that this WAS cronyism as a fact...we would be making that up as speculation.
ONLY EVIL BUSH BUDDIES GET CONTRACTS RIGHT?
27jd's answer to my question about if i should dig up stuff on Kerry's cronies.
This is an attack Bush thread, not attack Kerry one....im sure its out there somewhere.
Are you saying that you were not in favor of Liberating a country from invasion by a dictator, which was approved thru the UN, and to which a large group of nations all participated?
There are many reasons to have done this, not just for the bennefit of the Quaiti people...regional stability, oil intrests (for many countries), or how about because it was just the honorable and just thing to do.
Imagine a post 9-11 world where the USA did not oppose saddams land grab...would he be more brazen if we had let him get away with it and we were dealing with terrorist to? I can only immagine how both he and terrorist would be plotting the WEAK DO NOTHING AMERICANS then. I like our new policy of "think twice about a butt whipping" better than allowing the perception that the USA is too scared to take actions if nessisary.
So you think that a mostly fundamentalist, theocratic state can just decide to crack down on its own people without reprocussions....up to and including causing armed insurrection (internal terrorism)? Saudis are killing Saudis already. The Saudi people that have died because of this infighting paid the price for the royal families decision to change and "westernize".
This change might take a generation or longer before overall attitudes there will really show this change. To crack down any harder on their own citizens risks a revolution, which would be bad and a bloodbath. Is that what you want? Yet another destabalized mid east nation?
You seem to need to dig your way out of the snow on this one..what a shallow view you have of this situation.
So our millitary is mostly withdrawn from there? This actually helps the Saudi Gov as some of the internal preassure about USA forces there is dimminished. Besides, like 1/2 our army isnt next door should the Saudis request millitary assistance. Why would they...the Gov there is stable and working with the west...unless they go wild internally or threaten the USA, we have no reason to put troops there, theyre needed elsewhere.
USA forces assisting them to crackdown wouldnt help them, it would probably hurt them as then to terrorists, they gave up the nations soveringty to the west. If they rule on their own, while not favored, at least its an Islamist regime (as they percieve things). As opposed to the USA dominated Iraqi Government. Which do you think the Saudis would like more?
Didnt anyone ever tell you
Hate the game not the player.
Hmm, yes the President, as the chief of the EXECUTVE branch of GOV, is both setting a tone for legislation he'd like to see (adgenda), as well as signing into law those bills that he recieves that he approves of.
But oh yeah....BUSH is tho only one responsible here. Democracy doesnt count here.
I'll take it for granted this statement is true.
GOOD!!! ME TOO.....
Look this whole terror/mid east crisis thing comes down to the idea that the west specifically the USA, doenst have the guts, the willpower, the determination to stick it out and to take an active role over there. (for whatever reason) I dont believe that Saddam actually believed we would take him out until too late. The president IS correct when he says this is an ideological battle. How long did the terrorists observe the UN's (and the wests) reluctance to actually ENFORCE 10 years worth of sanctions they passed against Iraq? How much more empowered would they be now if they had seen us cave in and do nothing time and again?
The time for do nothing, isolationist politics are over.
Originally posted by BasementAddix
Yea...Iraq was oddles better off with Saddam at the helm...who are you kidding?
He was responsible for the death of 300,000 OF HIS OWN PEOPLE....in his reign he went after Isreal, Iran, Kuwait, etc...Im tired of hearing all this Bush Bashing....this site is becoming very Liberal....What did Clinton do after Somalia?
People make such a big deal about the Bush/Saudi connection...but who do you think paid for Hilarys way into the senate?...How about Clinton pardonning the 19 Puetro Rican terrorists?
Bush is doing roughly the same thing as Clinton did in Bosnia and Kosovo
its "hip" to hate Bush
People blame Bush for our economic situation...but most people are retarded...and dont realize that OUR CURRENT BUDGET CAME FROM THE CLINTON ERA...budgets are made 3-4 years in advance
Im also tired of hearing Bush being referred to as a Redneck/Racist...etc...Cause we all know Clinton came from the city...no...urban area...no...um...oh yea...ARKANSAS
I mean jesus
Bush brought Powell and Rice with him...BOTH BLACK
he's trying to make Thomas the HEAD of the Supreme court
Im tired of the Democrats still bitchin about Florida
Something you haven't done, you've only parroted "info" you've googled off pro-GOP websites. Sorry, doesn't convince me.
NO, I'M SURE THEY WORKED HARD TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY WAS GIVEN A FAIR SHOT. Yeah right, if other companies were given a fair shot at other contracts in Iraq (not the no-bid contract Halliburton was awarded) it was only because Bush ran out of evil buddies to award them too. And yes I'll beat you to it, that would be "assumptive" and yes it's my opinion.
You seem to underestimate the control these theocratic governments have over their people
He's the president, our main figurehead, and the main figurehead of the government you seem so well versed in. He should not be "setting a tone" for any religious agenda, regardless of the workings of congress.
Well then, welcome to WWIII right?
you actually advocate military invasions on principles alone.
GRAND CANYON, Ariz. (Reuters) - Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry said on Monday he would have voted for the congressional resolution authorizing force against Iraq even if he had known then no weapons of mass destruction would be found.
I seriously doubt they paid Hillary's way into the senate, but even if so, she's not running for president yet, so we'll talk about that when she does.
Um, no. Clinton saved muslims from genocide at the hands of non-muslims, and with world support, not even close to the same thing.
His brother was governor of FL, and I believe he stole the election. If it were as cut and dry as you claim, the Dem's wouldn't still be bitchin
Originally posted by CazMedia
When will the same ole tired anti Bush rhetoric people start to bring FACTS
other than the fact that you dont like him?
The "same ole tired anti Bush rhetoric people" are most of the population on the planet earth.
It doesn't matter what "facts" you choose to repeat from whichever sources you choose to repeat them from.
This thread asked why so many people hate Bush? I gave my opinion.
I'll believe what I believe to be true, and you do the same.