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Fanaticism and you...What would it take for you to renounce your faith?

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posted on Aug, 17 2010 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
How many of you who have proclaimed such strong faith, have just as strong practice? Assuming most of you claim Christianity as your religion, how many of you continuously strive to follow the Ten Commandments? Same goes for those who proclaim ultimate faith in Judaism and Islam. How many of you feel that faith is all that is needed to save you?


Perhaps more than you suppose. However, the glory isn't in the success, it's in the striving to live up to those ideals. If one fails? Doesn't make them evil, or hypocrites...it makes 'em human. All too human in some cases.


I ask that, because throughout my life I have noticed many people who follow religions and proclaim ultimate faith in them, still continue living undisciplined (sinful) lives. Almost like a 'get out of jail free card'. So then, what is the point of having ultimate faith in Jesus' teachings if people decide not to follow all of his teachings and only decide to follow his teaching on faith? That always seemed funny to me. In my opinion all religions are about practice, and faith is just a tool to aide in that, not the other way around.


There are many who give lip service to their faith, and/or religion, yet continue to lead "sinful" lives... Slightly hypocritical, yet again, human...nothing says that they can not, or will not, find that faith again... I doubt many of them see it as a "get out of jail free card", though some may indeed believe that. Bad teaching to my mind, but again, makes 'em human. One can forget the teachings of God, or Jesus, or Allah, or whomever...but one can just as easily find them again. I did. Though my faith bears little resemblance to what I was taught as a child...

Faith should be questioned. I submit that man can not know Gods will, because to understand the mind of God, we must first become God. ...and we've a precious long way to go before we reach that height.

[edit on 8/17/2010 by seagull]




posted on Aug, 17 2010 @ 04:01 PM
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God is the leading cause of death????

When I read that I laughed my way right here to laugh some more!!!!

God is the ultimate and original artist, mathematician, physicist, medical authority, world maker, life creator, spark of life, inspirition, poet, supreme being, the ultimate everything!



posted on Aug, 17 2010 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by Griffo515
 

Christian Mystic here. Let me take a crack at these:


What would it really take for you to renounce your faith?

Nothing, as I would never renounce my path. I can't do it anyway, I'm too far down the rabbit hole and its impossible to turn back. If somebody was to put a gun to my head to renounce my faith ...i'd rather take a bullet.


Would you ever consider other religions?

I have studied others and it has only strengthened my own path. I am open to other paths also being paths to God.


Do you fear your 'God' and/or 'Deity' and why

Tough to answer. I feel God to be everywhere and the source of everyone and everything ....how can you fear that? I only fear really having attachments. I think its attachments and addicitions that keep us locked here or in hells or what not.


Did you know that God (regardless of your faith and/or religion) is the leading cause of death? And more times than often (evidently throughout history) he 'wills it' with no apparent justification or cause.

Actually this is something that non-understanding individuals use as an attack on God and/or Spiritual paths. Actually its the Ego itself that is responsible of killing in the name of ________ fill in the blank how you please. In the name of love, jealousy, religion, allah, hatred, anger, race, etc.


Was your religion, ever really 'your' religion? and by that I mean, were you ever given a choice on the matter?

I prayed hard core 1 night when I reached rock bottom in my life for God to help me and the next day a pastor calls my house out of the blue. I attribute that to divine intervention. I had a choice then, and even now added the "mystic" part to my label ....out of my own choice. Of course the "mystic" part really pisses off Christians when they hear that!!!!

[edit on 17-8-2010 by dominicus]



posted on Aug, 17 2010 @ 04:04 PM
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I suppose I would quickly and easily renounce witchcraft...whatever it took....so I could manage to make sure I could curse and poison the person that made me do it.

No problem.



posted on Aug, 17 2010 @ 05:34 PM
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Interesting thread. I'll take a crack at the OP's post.



What would it really take for you to renounce your faith?

Hard experiential evidence. And I am always open to any knowledge that is true. Thus far in life, this has not impactred my faith. For me, faith unfolds within in the experiential realm, rather than within the conceptual realm. That is, I see the inner religious exeperience, rather than a text or a line of reasoning, as the core. To my mind, there is no reason that faith and hard physical science, cosmology, evolution, etc. are at all incompatable. I'm not a literalist or a fundamentalist -- I approach religion from a more mystical angle.



- Would you ever consider other religions?


All major religions can be practiced in a way such that they lead to the same core experience of the divine. All can also be abused to the extent that they become pathological and even lead away from the divine. It is probably best for most people to "pick a single path and stick with it," but after a certain point, the question becomes moot. Eclecticism is also its own path, although its a tougher path than most people realize because it demands a strong inner compass. It's easy to get lost in the outer forms.



Do you fear your 'God' and/or 'Deity' and why

Yes, I believe fear can be an aspect of awe and devotion. I do not know why. Life itself is fearsome for all, and much in religion is about dealing with fear. It's not surprising to see fear manifesting in many forms during religious practice. Sometimes fear can even be a spiritual "updraft," taking the practitioner even closer to the Divine. Other times it can cause deluded behavior and lead away from the Divine.



Did you know that God (regardless of your faith and/or religion) is the leading cause of death? And more times than often (evidently throughout history) he 'wills it' with no apparent justification or cause.

All people are born to suffer and die, whether or or not one believes in a God or Gods. It is a profound mystery and one that frankly I believe has not been unravelled yet, by science, religion, or any other conceptual or experiential framework. I believe it is certainly possible for humans to come to terms with death, either religiously or secularly. But to explain death seems to be beyond our reach at the moment. Perhaps some day this riddle will be solved, perhaps not.



Was your religion, ever really 'your' religion? and by that I mean, were you ever given a choice on the matter?


An important and difficult question. There are many ways I could try to answer this; none of them seem really satisfactory to me. For now I will say that I think I understand what you are getting at to some extent, and I would answer that it seems to me that I was given an opportunity and a set of experiences rather than a choice per se.

I would also add that each moment of life presents us all with a very vital important choice to make, to which we are usually blind, sadly. Each momemnt also presents us with a series of other choices, also important, also demanding, and the way we respond to them moment by momement shapes our relationship with the self and the Divine.




[edit on 8/17/10 by silent thunder]



posted on Aug, 17 2010 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
How many of you who have proclaimed such strong faith, have just as strong practice? Assuming most of you claim Christianity as your religion, how many of you continuously strive to follow the Ten Commandments?


Ten commandments? No, there are only two -- Love God, love everyone else. And I follow these to the best of my ability. I fail, quite often, as I tend to be pretty self centred at times, but, for the most part, I stay close enough to the path that it's an easy skip back over. And contrary to expectation, if you can manage these two things, it's a relief and a blessing, not a burden. If you came round today with absolute proof that God did not exist, I'd still stick to them, because love, forgiveness and tolerance are more of a blessing to the person practicing than they are to the recipient.

Your second bit suggests you need to be a little more discerning between practicing Christians and people who view church as some sort of social club they go to once a week. Not the same thing.



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
How many of you who have proclaimed such strong faith, have just as strong practice? Assuming most of you claim Christianity as your religion, how many of you continuously strive to follow the Ten Commandments? Same goes for those who proclaim ultimate faith in Judaism and Islam. How many of you feel that faith is all that is needed to save you?

I ask that, because throughout my life I have noticed many people who follow religions and proclaim ultimate faith in them, still continue living undisciplined (sinful) lives. Almost like a 'get out of jail free card'. So then, what is the point of having ultimate faith in Jesus' teachings if people decide not to follow all of his teachings and only decide to follow his teaching on faith? That always seemed funny to me. In my opinion all religions are about practice, and faith is just a tool to aide in that, not the other way around.


This whole thing is so much more complex than this, but in a nutshell you need to remember that those who proclaim to be Christians will be judged quickest and hardest. So don't worry about the hypocrites and the stage Christians, they'll be worse off than the "non-believers".

The point of Faith is accepting that our nature is incapable of redemption. We have (because of sin) not of God, unholy, and thus cannot exist with God.

But if you accept that God is willing to take the beef for you, which he's perfectly willing to do, you can start living free of your sin now and not wait until He stands before you.



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by hypervigilant
The idea that there is a omnipotent supreme being that allows people to kill one another in his name and yet has unconditional love for those that subscribe to the idea that one exist is just ridiculous. Why is it that religious people think that a person has to have faith in their chosen god to be an honest, loving, and responsible human being? If it makes sense to you then go ahead and give 10% of what you have to the god of your choice, you will still be just as dead and gone when your life is over as someone that doesn't believe and pay the 10% admission fee. The idea that there exist such a power and done more harm and justified more death and evil than anything that does truly exist.


I have 100% confidence that you do not need faith to be a "honest, loving, and responsible" human. I'm also confident that it's not enough.

Even the best among us wrong each other and wrong ourselves.

My faith isn't in the need of God to make me a better person, my Faith is in a God who doesn't need me at all - but still desperately seeks me out of love.



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 07:51 PM
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Great answers! interesting responses, I must say...and thank you to the people who took the time to answer. Now if we could have an individual who is currently monitoring this thread and is also a part of less 'mainstream' religion...such as Scientology or the Exclusive Brethren, have a go at my questions?



posted on Aug, 18 2010 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by gncnew
 




But if you accept that God is willing to take the beef for you, which he's perfectly willing to do, you can start living free of your sin now and not wait until He stands before you.


Ok, but I just don't see how you can speak for God? Are we talking about your made up God, or are we talking the most absolute source of all creation? If we are talking about the latter, then how can we (just one of billions of life forms in the Universe that was created) speak for it, whatever it is, and what it thinks, if anything, when we can't even figure our own minds out? Faith in its existence, and faith in knowing what it expects (if anything) of us are two vastly different things. Isn't it?

[edit on 18-8-2010 by LifeIsEnergy]



posted on Aug, 19 2010 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by gncnew
 




But if you accept that God is willing to take the beef for you, which he's perfectly willing to do, you can start living free of your sin now and not wait until He stands before you.


Ok, but I just don't see how you can speak for God? Are we talking about your made up God, or are we talking the most absolute source of all creation? If we are talking about the latter, then how can we (just one of billions of life forms in the Universe that was created) speak for it, whatever it is, and what it thinks, if anything, when we can't even figure our own minds out? Faith in its existence, and faith in knowing what it expects (if anything) of us are two vastly different things. Isn't it?

[edit on 18-8-2010 by LifeIsEnergy]


This seems to entirely depend on what/where your faith is based upon. I don't presume to speak for God - rather I am only repeating the message that God has given mankind.

God spoke to us through both creation and spirit. The Holy Spirit (as named by the church) is God's manifestation on earth and his way of communicating to man without having to actually exist on our plane of existence (which could not happen due to sin v/s holiness).

He's also spoken to us (obviously according my particular brand of faith) Christ, which was God as made flesh.

The resounding message that is coming from God is both clear and ambiguous at the same time - but I believe that to be intentional as well. The clarity is in where/what God's intentions and motivations towards his creation are. The ambiguity lies in concept of an omnipotent and eternal being.

What can any of us really understand about eternity? What can we understand about a God that truly was, is, and is to come? How do we comprehend the complete lack of linear time-lines where reality simply "is"....?

But here I'm getting off topic, this is a discussion for later.



posted on Aug, 19 2010 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by Griffo515
 


'What will it take to renounce your faith?"

typically the enemy uses pride, lust and your fear to get you to turn your back to God. That takes care of about 99% of people on Earth, including Christians and all other religious people. It's important to not be bound by these vices.

Some people succumb to Earthly things, and turn their back. Others grow stronger in their quest to rid their lives from the bondage of these controlling mental vices.

I assure you, shed your life from the fruitless journey of pride, fear and lust and you will get to know Satan VERY well. Because that is the only way he has control in our lives. Once you know who Satan is and what part we have ALL played in building his kingdom, you can then make a choice to walk towards the only light you see left. That light is God...and it's a very faint light for most of us to navigate the wilderness.

[edit on 19-8-2010 by Visitor2012]



posted on Nov, 9 2014 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: CitizenNum287119327

i studied Islam for many years 5+ i to used to be christian then Atheist .

your on the right track


just watch who you take knowledge from about Islam .

so notable scholars i would recommend are .

'Abdur-Rahmaan Ibn Hasan aalush-Shaykh
'Abdur-Rahmaan Ibn Naasir as-Sa'dee
Abu Bakr Muhammad Ibn al-Husayn al-Aajurree
Abu Daawood as-Sijistaanee
Adh-Dhahabee
Ahmad Ibn Hanbal
Ahmad Muhammad Shaakir
al-Khateeb al-Baghdaadee
ash-Shawkaanee
Badrud-Deen al-Ghazzee
Ibn Abil 'Izz al-Hanafee
Ibn al-Jawzee
Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jawziyyah
Ibn Daqeeq al-'Eed
Ibn Hajr al-Asqalaanee
Ibn Hajr al-Hanbalee
Ibn Katheer
Ibn Qudaamah al-Maqdisee
Ibn Taymiyyah
Mohiud-Deen Yahyaa Ibn Sharaf an-Nawawee
Muhammad Ibn ’Abdul-Lateef
Muhammad Ibn ’Abdur-Rahmaan al-Mubaarakfooree
Muhammad Ibn 'Abdul-Wahhaab
Muhammad Ibn Ibraaheem Aalush-Shaykh
Muhammad Ibn Ismaa'eel al-Bukhaaree
Muslim Ibnul-Hajjaaj al-Qushayree an-Naysaabooree
Zaynud-Deen al-'Iraaqee


ones that i personally are

sheikh albani

and sheikh uthaymeen


best of luck

Salam Alikume
edit on 9-11-2014 by Walsh because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2014 @ 03:07 PM
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