Fanaticism and you...What would it take for you to renounce your faith?

God can become man to save man, but man cannot become god to save himself...
Have you ever thought about that? Let me stress that I am not singling out any one faith on this thread and it is not a hate rant. I mealy want people to openly answer these questions as truthful as they can.

So in regards to the growing number of anti vs pro religious threads going on at the moment, there is obviously extreme fanaticism when it comes to belief coupled with the inability to see beyond what they have been told...

To the people who may fall into this category (you know who you are) I ask of you,
- What would it really take for you to renounce your faith?
- Would you ever consider other religions?
- Do you fear your 'God' and/or 'Deity' and why
- Did you know that God (regardless of your faith and/or religion) is the leading cause of death? And more times than often (evidently throughout history) he 'wills it' with no apparent justification or cause.
- Was your religion, ever really 'your' religion? and by that I mean, were you ever given a choice on the matter?

Please concentrate on the last question carefully before answering...it is the most important.

[edit on 17-8-2010 by Griffo515]

Originally posted by Griffo515

So in regards to the growing number of anti vs pro religious threads going on at the moment, there is obviously extreme fanaticism when it comes to belief coupled with the inability to see beyond what they have been told...

Have you assumed that those who hold strong views only do so because they are brainwashed? Do you include those who believe people of faith are intellectually inferior?

To the people who may fall into this category (you know who you are) I ask of you,
- What would it really take for you to renounce your faith?

It is impossible to answer that. Until such action is taken against me that requires I renounce my faith, I simply do not know! Sure, I can unequivocally state that my faith is too strong to be renounced but in truth, I do not and cannot know. Sophie's choice springs to mind; if the life or security from torture of any of my most beloved were threatened, then I may succumb in practice. In my heart though, only I can choose to deny God.

- Would you ever consider other religions?

I did once but not anymore.

- Do you fear your 'God' and/or 'Deity' and why

I've never feared God. Sometimes I blame Him, sometimes I question Him, sometimes I hate Him but mostly, I love and respect Him.

- Did you know that God (in all faiths) is the leading cause of death? And more times than often (evidently throughout history) he 'wills it' with no apparent justification or cause.

Life is the leading cause of death; death is inevitable! People have used God to justify killing those they fear or are envious of, people kill in God's name and then claim that God instructed them and then write about it in their holy books.

- Was your religion, ever really 'your' religion? and by that I mean, were you ever given a choice on the matter?

I was not raised in my faith. My path to faith lead me to knowledge of God, even to knowledge of God that is outside of my eventual faith, some of it deemed 'dangerous' to others who share my faith. I tell them that I do not agree it was dangerous for me; I point out to them that God will only allow each of us to deal with that we can cope with and that some of us are unconventially brought up.

Please concentrate on the last question carefully before answering...it is the most important.

Why is the last question of greater import?

PS - really liking your avatar!

[edit on 17/8/2010 by teapot]

[edit on 17/8/2010 by teapot]

[edit on 17/8/2010 by teapot]

- What would it really take for you to renounce your faith?

Don’t know how to answer that really... the actions of people who claim to be of the same faith as me would not... and, at the present moment in time, i can honestly see nothing making me renounce my faith!

- Would you ever consider other religions?

I did in the past... but no longer

- Do you fear your 'God' and/or 'Deity' and why

A good question... yes and no and don’t know... Sorry

- Did you know that God (in all faiths) is the leading cause of death? And more times than often (evidently throughout history) he 'wills it' with no apparent justification or cause.

God is the leading cause of death... Yes, because God gives life and takes life with his very design of life. Death is all part of the cycle that God created.

It is only people who do not have faith that get angry by this... because their belief is often that death is the finale curtain... end of... worm meat... oblivion!!

For people of faith the belief is that death is the doorway to a new beginning!

- Was your religion, ever really 'your' religion? and by that I mean, were you ever given a choice on the matter?

Yes... My family are not really religious... my mum and dad never really went to church. However, i came to God over a long period of time, making mistakes along the way... it’s been a very interesting journey.



I dont see the point in the "Fanaticism and you" part of the title??

Do you consider all people of faith to be fanatics??

I hope not...

Love the avatar... S+F for a thread which i believe will be interesting, I will keep an eye on it out of interest

Peace

[edit on 17-8-2010 by Muckster]

Originally posted by Griffo515
What would it take for you to renounce your faith?

god, i think.


i'm going to take some time to let the rest of that opening post settle in.


have a great 2012,
et


p.s.
Star & Flag

[edit on 17-8-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

Interesting responses, and thank you both for taking the time to reply! I do think (as in my personal life) when I ask these sorts of questions, they cannot answer it with ought asking another question back. Maybe that is the case here? And im guessing all responses will be similar in nature.

for you to explain you existence away from it.

Originally posted by Ausar
for you to explain you existence away from it.

Im sorry, that made no sense at all...

Okay. I'll openly and honestly answer your questions.

Not sure if I fall into any category...guess that comes down to whatever other peoples perceptions and pigeon-holing viewpoints may be...but anyway:

What would it really take for you to renounce your faith?
I honestly don't know.
I do however have a good handle on my own concept of my *faith*.
I know the process and the pain lived through which I guess has helped forge my faith in the fires of life, of struggle and so forth.
My initial answer I'd like to say would be "Nothing". But again I don't know...I feel right now that nothing could cause me to renounce my faith...but I am also human.

IF I was to surmise a possible precursor to my renouncing of my faith - then maybe it would be if the very *God* I have *faith* in was to approach me and say to me "Hey dude, I don't want your faith any more."



Would you ever consider other religions?
Of course.
I see Religion and Faith as being two completely different things. Completely different.
To me I see Religion as being a collective 'set of rules of engagement', a set process/structure around ones belief. Faith, belief, religion...all different things.
Faith to me is a personal thing - a very personal and individual connection...direct...to *God* (insert whatever term takes your fancy for that essence, entity, energy, whatever).
Religion to me is just a possible pathway or medium to that connection...whatever works for you. A way that may - or may not - aid in your reaching that place of *faith*.
Just my opinion, but I'm not so hung up on the 'how you get there' bit...just the 'that you get there' bit.



Do you fear your 'God' and/or 'Deity' and why?
Not really.
I have no doubts at all regarding the ability or the power of that which I term *God*...but I don't fear that ability or power.
I can't see how I could contain fear in my heart/soul for something that I hold love for and feel love from. Love and fear are two conflicting concepts.
Like the previous respondent - I may have had my times of being a bit like a belligerent child with *God*...oh I've had a few doozeys with God over the years...but I've never once 'feared' as such. And right now, God and I are good. We're good buddies.



Did you know that God (in all faiths) is the leading cause of death? And more times than often (evidently throughout history) he 'wills it' with no apparent justification or cause.
Really? All 'faiths' you say? You sure about that??
As I'm pretty sure the supreme deity within my specific Culture's (Maori) 'religion', Io Matua Kore, has done no such thing.




Was your religion, ever really 'your' religion? and by that I mean, were you ever given a choice on the matter?
Are we talking faith? Belief? Religion? which?
As for my 'religion':
I was raised Roman Catholic. Attended Mass every Sunday, went to Sunday School, served as an Alter Boy, all that...
When I was in my late teens and left home the choice was mine to remain with Catholicism or not.
For a period of my life I didn't. I hung out with many different friends who went to many different churchs, different religious practices etc.
What I saw was the amazing beauty...and at times the darkness...that existed in Mankind. Not religion - but Mankind.
This religion or that religion or NO religion...it didn't matter.

No single set of religious beliefs or practices (from the limited amount I saw and was exposed to of course) - or lack of belief either - held any monopoly on righteousness....so too none were devoid of darkness.
The righteousness or the darkness resided in the heart of the practitioner - NOT the practice.


Currently I attend a Roman Catholic Church.
To be honest that's more for the fellowship of the people there...not because its RC.
Its a beautiful warm church with so many beautiful warm people who just make my wife and I feel so welcome...we feel so part of the family. So we attend.
Interestingly enough also my wife was raised Anglican, yet she loves attending the Mass for the same reason.

*Editted to add: I wouldn't class my religion as RC either by the way...heh, same may think thats messed up....I kinda think its just fine...


...hope I managed to answer a bit of your question/s at least....




Peace.

[edit on 17-8-2010 by alien]

reply to post by Griffo515


i think there is a reason, a cause, for "god" and faith.

i'll try to supply you with what answers i can without them being questions themselves, and here is a variable in the equasion for me:

i'm not sure how many of our ancestors i am prepared to call liars and write off or disregard their historical beliefs as totally unfounded.

please note, i'm not being cynical or condescending here.
"faith" and "god" may be concepts that exist for more than just percieved neccesities. But, i really like a few of the sentences in the opening post, and i really like the word choice in a few of those questions.

respectfully,
et

[edit on 17-8-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

Originally posted by alien
Did you know that God (in all faiths) is the leading cause of death? And more times than often (evidently throughout history) he 'wills it' with no apparent justification or cause.
Really? All 'faiths' you say? You sure about that??
As I'm pretty sure the supreme deity within my specific Culture's (Maori) 'religion', Io Matua Kore, has done no such thing.

Maybe I should rephrase that, I mean (regardless of your faith and/or religion).
Thank your for your answers! you have given me a lot to think about.

After being baptised as an anglican (church of england), but never following this up (2 x to sunday school, but kicked out coz i talked too much, and the stickers were naff - i wanted a football sticker). 44 years as an atheist.

Have read a little on all religions. after reading the new testament, i went onto the tanach - almost converted to judiasm, and now have read the Qur'an, sunnah and in time, will probably join the muslim faith.

so, if I can, I will answer your questions.

Originally posted by Griffo515
To the people who may fall into this category (you know who you are) I ask of you,
- What would it really take for you to renounce your faith?

I am not rushing and continuing my research and learning arabic. If I make a commitment, I will not renounce it. I have seen enough of life and experienced enough to no longer fear death. it will be a bummer, but its not under my control, so cant think of anything that would make me back-track.

- Would you ever consider other religions?

I have.

- Do you fear your 'God' and/or 'Deity' and why

you pretty much answer that in the question below. When he wills it, it's a done deal. surrender to that notion and you gain a lot of peace.

- Did you know that God (regardless of your faith and/or religion) is the leading cause of death? And more times than often (evidently throughout history) he 'wills it' with no apparent justification or cause.

No apparent justification or cause that mere mortals can fathom.

- Was your religion, ever really 'your' religion? and by that I mean, were you ever given a choice on the matter?
Please concentrate on the last question carefully before answering...it is the most important.

As above. Baptised as a kid. Athiest 44+years. Will make my own commitment when i finished my research/study.

Originally posted by Griffo515
What would it really take for you to renounce your faith?

Evidence that I am wrong which overwhelms the evidence that I am right.

Would you ever consider other religions?

If it was that which provides the evidence, certainly.

Do you fear your 'God' and/or 'Deity' and why

No.

Did you know that God (regardless of your faith and/or religion) is the leading cause of death? And more times than often (evidently throughout history) he 'wills it' with no apparent justification or cause.

I know that this is an overused and largely ineffective argument that atheists use in an attempt to undermine people's faiths. Everybody dies, pal, it's part of life. If you think that there's nothing beyond this, or you want to live in disregard for other people, that's where the fear and indignation at death settle in.

Was your religion, ever really 'your' religion? and by that I mean, were you ever given a choice on the matter?

Of course I was. The "import" that you apply to this indicates a simplistic and naive assumption.

I'm not sure if I fall into the fanaticisim category, but I am pretty secure in my faith.

Also - quick note: You betrayed your agenda already in your opening. You are singling out one religion because only one states that God sent his son to save man. Also, you essentially state that only those of faith are draped with

extreme fanaticism when it comes to belief coupled with the inability to see beyond what they have been told..

So, only people of faith have extreme fanaticism in a belief in something with an inability to see beyond what they've been told?

Pot, I'd like you to meet Kettle... moving on though:

- What would it really take for you to renounce your faith?

I think it would take me coming to the conclusion that God doesn't exist, isn't an all loving creator, and/or has no interest in his creation.

- Would you ever consider other religions?

I have, and would... but at this point I only consider them to be missing the point. Religion is a system to try and structure a belief. It's the belief that matters, not so much the religion around it.

- Do you fear your 'God' and/or 'Deity' and why

Yes. Same reason I fear(ed) my father and mother. I have a healthy respect for my God's authority on my life and his awesome holiness. It's not a fear of some monster, it's a fear of respect. Didn't you fear disappointing your parents more than angering them? I did.

- Did you know that God (regardless of your faith and/or religion) is the leading cause of death? And more times than often (evidently throughout history) he 'wills it' with no apparent justification or cause.

Wrong. man is the leading cause of death. Guns don't kill people, people do. God has been misused as a motivation for death, but so has money (and I'd argue that this is the real culprit for more death than any). If a man kills in the name of smoochy the teddy bear... is the teddy bear to blame? God doesn't cause man to kill any more than pencils cause misspelled words. Old Testement history aside (another debate - trust me), God has not ordered man to kill. In fact, God has ordered man not to kill, but man has decided to speak "in God's name" instead.

- Was your religion, ever really 'your' religion? and by that I mean, were you ever given a choice on the matter?

Yes. I was not raised in church or by parents of faith. It was completely my decision and one made long after I was married with kids.

reply to post by Griffo515

- What would it really take for you to renounce your faith?

My version of God coming down to Earth and saying "Stop it". Probably not even that, since I would obviously have to continue to believe in Him/Her...

- Would you ever consider other religions?

I have the utmost respect for most other religions, all have something to offer their various followers. All are searching for the "truth"...whatever that may turn out to be.

- Do you fear your 'God' and/or 'Deity' and why

Is there some reason I should? Last time I checked, my version of God was a pretty hands off fellow/lass. He leaves it to me to find my own way to him/her...

- Did you know that God (regardless of your faith and/or religion) is the leading cause of death? And more times than often (evidently throughout history) he 'wills it' with no apparent justification or cause.

Ah, the old "blame god" phraseology. Leading cause of death? Death is part of the Universe, happens to all of us. If you are referring to the many, many killings in the name of "whichevergod" throughout the centuries, you'll discover I think, should you look a bit further into it...that men, and women were doing the killing not God...in His name perhaps, I have my doubts as to whether or not it was his will, however...

- Was your religion, ever really 'your' religion? and by that I mean, were you ever given a choice on the matter?

Since my faith is my own, and no one else's, it was my choice, and it is, most assuredly, mine.

So to answer you question "What would it take for "me" to renounce my faith"? Nothing in this world.

You do know that "religion", and "faith" are two different things, right? Vastly different. Just sayin'.

Originally posted by Griffo515
Interesting responses, and thank you both for taking the time to reply! I do think (as in my personal life) when I ask these sorts of questions, they cannot answer it with ought asking another question back. Maybe that is the case here? And im guessing all responses will be similar in nature.

Have you ever considered for a moment that that there may be unknown forces controlling fanatics or people of faith? Why I asked this is because I know people who are suffering under the weight of their religion but quitting is not one of their options.

How many of you who have proclaimed such strong faith, have just as strong practice? Assuming most of you claim Christianity as your religion, how many of you continuously strive to follow the Ten Commandments? Same goes for those who proclaim ultimate faith in Judaism and Islam. How many of you feel that faith is all that is needed to save you?

I ask that, because throughout my life I have noticed many people who follow religions and proclaim ultimate faith in them, still continue living undisciplined (sinful) lives. Almost like a 'get out of jail free card'. So then, what is the point of having ultimate faith in Jesus' teachings if people decide not to follow all of his teachings and only decide to follow his teaching on faith? That always seemed funny to me. In my opinion all religions are about practice, and faith is just a tool to aide in that, not the other way around.

- What would it really take for you to renounce your faith?

danger Will Robinson .. Danger

does not compute


not a chance !!!
so that makes the rest of your
questions irrelevant to answer

reply to post by Griffo515


give up my faith? not going to happen.

ever questioned my faith / considered others? yes. after comparisom shopping I decided that my original faith is the winner.

I 'fear' my Master as I 'feared' my father, as a child; He is powerful but not malevolent.

my God does not cause death. sin brings death. we bring death on ourselves.

look at this world. DO YOU THINK THIS IS WHAT GOD WANTED FOR US?
He put us in a garden! swim in the pool! play with the animals! climb the trees! WE, humankind, pulled the plug on paradise.

GOD DOES NOT ENJOY THE SUFFERING IN THIS WORLD. and the time will come when He will say 'enough' and end this age.
He is giving us time / every chance to turn to Him.

ps; some of the worst mass murder in the 20th century was caused by atheistic Marxists in Russia, China, Cambodia. the worst, Nazi Germany, was sort of neo-pagan-norse (definitely not Christian, tho there were Christians in Germany, some of whom apparently went along with the bad guys, unfortunately)


[edit on 17-8-2010 by works4dhs]

The idea that there is a omnipotent supreme being that allows people to kill one another in his name and yet has unconditional love for those that subscribe to the idea that one exist is just ridiculous. Why is it that religious people think that a person has to have faith in their chosen god to be an honest, loving, and responsible human being? If it makes sense to you then go ahead and give 10% of what you have to the god of your choice, you will still be just as dead and gone when your life is over as someone that doesn't believe and pay the 10% admission fee. The idea that there exist such a power and done more harm and justified more death and evil than anything that does truly exist.

My faith lies in the human being as he can change things for good. My faith in good will will never be renounced.