"What's with the anger on ATS?"

Personally i think ATS is doing a great job....over moderation leads to a site where true thoughts cannot come to light.

Alot of topics are themselves controversial which is the basis of a whole conspiracy site one would think.

The only time i think anger is a problem is when it becomes a personal attack on an individual.

an attack on an issue i think is normal.

people have strong beliefs and by hearing out those beliefs and placing all cards on the table then it can be properly debated and then there becomes room for proper rebuttles even if not always warm and fuzzy.

now I have not been on here that long but that does not mean anything as i am of a decent age 48 and have been online in chats and forums since their inception and have found people can be rude...but I have always managed to deal with it.

also if your in a thread and it becomes to much for ones taste then you can choose to leave it.

I think the mods do a great job...and watch as close as they can...but by not stepping in to early it usually settles down.

also i feel some people are calling some issues hate issues when they are just issues against cultural,political or religious beliefs.

NOW...whenever any of those issues are discussed then that is very heated to strat with...but being brave enough to take the flack if you start a thread is important in itself.

I will through ufo,s 911 ,Jews,Muslims in there as they seem to be the ones that really set people off...and once again there are strong beliefs on both sides of those fences.

but open debate is what brings people together.

also n the OP it was stated that the times of our global crisis is part and parcel of this whole issue.

People of the planet are ANGRY....

We are being used as pawns and we seem to have no control over the roads we are being led down.

When people dont have control of their own lives and they see people suffering and they cannot help them let alone help ourselves it makes us angry.

NOW...ATS provides a place where people can air things out...and this is a good thing....Should the Moderators start to ban every posts that get another persons back up.....I would hope not.

we have enough of a nanny state happening and political corectness is just another invention to breed more hatred.

SO keep up the good work ATS....Dont interfere in general attacks on issues...but please just watch when it becomes a personal attack upon an individual.

The world is changing rapidly and i think soon the internet itself will be a changed medium as TPTB and MSM get their greedy little fingers into the pie more and more.

The way that the world will change is with sites like this providing an open forum without too too much interference of the content.

I dont believe that one sect is hated more than another sect....but realise that western society is more so represented on here than others...and that can be the origins of the certain hate threads....but please realise it our own goverments promoting this along with MSM....so please think intelligently and walk a mile in another mans shoes.

when starving populations see what we have compared to what other less fortunate people have that are just coming onto the grid it can make for a messy situation.

let the people with intelligence lead with compassion and show others how to do the same....it takes leadership to promote peace through peaceful means,,,,,so give your hands out to those who are angry and that may just help....dont complain about how horrible things are when it is up to each and every one of us to make the change we want to see.

PLUBE

Please Let Us Be Enlightened

I just had an idea, tell me what you think: "Bump old threads for peace."

Find old threads that you think epitomize the best of what ATS is for you. The ones with the inspiring ideas, great resarch, long and balanced debates, complex interactions. Then, add a new comment that carries on the spirit of the thread. That is, don't just write "bump" -- actually add something of value, or respond to a post in the thread (even if it is five years old) with new information, etc.

As more "classic" ATS threads return to active play, people will see the potential for what this site can be and come out of the woodwork to participate. They will be inspired to modulate their own tone. The key is to make the old thread relevant and connected when you bring it back,. You'll have to craft something enticing, rather than just: "this was a cool thread, bump."

What do you think? Flood the board with quality! Fight lack of reason with reason!



[edit on 8/16/10 by silent thunder]

Good thread.

I was overjoyed to see that thread yesturday that the title was just "F^$# it". I took a screenshot because I laughed so hard. I know ATS is not the place for such banter and anger, but sometimes it is so over the top, its funny.

reply to post by BO XIAN


You said what I was trying to say in a much better way.

Good work

Its not just ats, my lifes falling apart, no one is getting along, my life was great but continues to worsen.

things are not right.

reply to post by silent thunder


I agree with you in part silent..

But also i do think the world has changed and there is actually a lot of anger out there and it is just being reflected.

I live in a fantasy world and i do truley believe one day (fingers Crossed)
that by airing our differences we can actually,possibly,mybe, achieve peace.

what I have seen here lately (past few months)

* the odd decent thread, buried in garbage.
* many repeat, and ignorant, threads about how evolution is wrong in one way or another. 'god' is not a conspiracy, and doesn't belong here.
* many threads strongly supporting one political view, and calling our for negative retribution of some kind.
* segregation of the 'global village' that is the internet. We're forming online camps and raising online flags and walls. This needs to stop.

Just one more thing I want to say:

Freedom = many different opinions = disagreement = anger/hate = conflicts

Originally posted by plube
...by airing our differences we can actually,possibly,mybe, achieve peace.

Our differences are programmed into us.

[edit on 16/8/2010 by DGFenrir]

reply to post by muzzleflash


How would purging those who can't be at least passably polite send a bad message to others? Shouldn't the members understand that mods have the power to remove them for actions unbecoming of members? Isn't enforcement of the Terms and Conditions the job of the staff rather than members? I don't expect them to make anything even close to a utopia, but I don't expect to do their work for them by becoming some kind of white knight. We try to talk sense into people till we become red in the face but ultimately the only people who have the real power are the staff.

I'm all for the banning of people if it gets the job done, because in the end the results are what counts here not the means; if we attempt to keep it in check as members (and inevitably fail because we have no true power over other members) then what are we left with when the site becomes labeled with various companies as a hate speech site? Then we lose even more than we would have if we simply burnt out the problem in the first place.

reply to post by plube


Yes, you are right, the tenor of the times has changed.

People in general are bitter and fired up because the texture of life itself is becoming miserable for so many in so many ways. Perhaps the problem is not internal to ATS but society-wide, as others have already pointed out.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Thank you SkepticOverlord.
I agree with proto and the person replied to, there are a lot of shallow and surface-dwelling items popping up, and the agenda is evident in these posts.
I love the way you explained things, proto !
The good side is they out themselves and their plans in the thousands of threads they post each day all over Internet sites.
The objectives are discouragement and division, IMHO. Using fear and anger and pain.
Solutions I find helpful are noting who is posting, ignoring posts with certain language, and seeking honesty and civility in posts.
May the site continue to improve. Many blessings to all.

I think this has to do with the state of affairs all over the world a lot of economic turmoil and lots of undue stress and lots of speculation on where we are going and what is going to happen to us, we are scared and angry because we do not know how this mess will ever be straightened out. Most of the anger is aimed at the MSM, and the Governments, however soemtimes people can't help but just be all out aggressive to others as they are not sure of their future.

reply to post by AlphaANDOmega



You are not alone.

The first place to try and find peace is inside. Try it. It will help.

I won't tell you it will get better because I have been listening to that for a couple of years and everyday it gets worse.

But , I have found peace.

Now I wait.

Originally posted by Helig
How would purging those who can't be at least passably polite send a bad message to others? Shouldn't the members understand that mods have the power to remove them for actions unbecoming of members? Isn't enforcement of the Terms and Conditions the job of the staff rather than members?

The Terms and Conditions have no weight. I know of one individual who's been banned here more than 8 or 9 times and he keeps coming back under a new user name. He doesn't even try to hide his identity. When I brought it up to a Super Mod, I was told they knew it was him, but had to wait until he put his foot in it again before they could ban his current incarnation.

So if there are no consequences to breaking the rules, there will always be a contingent feeling free to ignore them.

Firstly i'd like to say that ATS Staff is doing a magnificent job!

Secondly take a look at this thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

That thread and me posting it isn't about aggression on ATS but rather what may be the root cause of it.

Partisanship.

I think even if aggression in a thread not related to partisanship the root cause of the aggression is still partisanship.

I think the media is at fault more than the political parties for this.
And of course the people.

What does that mean, that in 2010 we still believe in the two party system and it being real?

Well it means that they are winning, because despite being on a conspiracy website many are still sheeple.

This is a great concern!

What is the position when you are the subject of being called a liar, when it is patently obvious you are not. Or, being accused of "making it up" when you provide proof? Those accusations were directed against me and the apparant anger against me included long standing members, and in a very recent thread. There was no intercession by mods, and I didn't ask for any, so basically you are on your own and all you can hope for is that others, of a more rational mind and not on a agenda will follow up on your posts so that they can make their own minds up on the matter in a reasonable manner if there was something there of interest. We can all read everyones posts made on their profile, and if there are patterns that don't appeal to you, maybe the best thing is to ignore that persons post..not always easy, I know I often fall for it, but I'm learning

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
I'm not sure I understand what "acting on those beliefs" mean on a message board? Using racial derrogatory terms?

If you're unable (or unwilling?) to discern the difference between opinion and actions, there's not much more I can say for you on the matter.

You protect racist hate speech (as long as it is respectful), but will ban a member who gets ANGRY over being looked down upon as a human being because of their skin color.

Do you have an example of where this has happened?

And ATS members of that group...YOU BETTER NOT GET ANGRY AT IT OR YOU WILL BE PUNISHED.

I neither said nor implied any such thing... that seems to be your interpretation of the opening post (somehow). In fact, the opening post of this thread made no mention of new or increased punitive measures from our staff.

Originally posted by Snarf

Originally posted by Retseh
Your main problem is weak enforcement, I have seen overt racism dealt with via nothing more than a "warning".

You need to ban a few of the more notable perpetrators and you will see instances of abuse disappear overnight.

couldn't agree more.

Civility & Decorum, in my opinion, are pipe dreams when you deal with topics like religion, politics, abortion, etc.

So the balance, it seems, becomes whether or not to enforce a topic like "religion" the same way you would enforce a topic like "UFOs" or "ancient mysteries"

If you choose to enforce as vigorously, you'll loose some variety in rhetoric and ban more people

if you choose to enforce less vigorously, you'll get more complaints about people being mean.

IMO, politics, in its nature, is "mean" and people shouldn't partake unless they can par-tay.



edit for clarity - any name calling like "hey fag" or "you are gay" or anything like that simply should not be tolerated, and, IMO, should be met with a temporary ban every time.

Calling someone closed minded, sheeple, etc, shouldn't be against rules...after all, saying someone is "ignorant" while acceptable by ToC, just simply doesn't cover it with some people.

Ignorant means the person just doesn't understand the topic. But there are lots of people on this site that DO understand the topic, but still choose to ignore the urge for a civil tone, and go against the grain anyways.

I don't see that as having thin skin, i see it as fostering an intelligent environment to carry out civil conversation.

I think one of the biggest problems here is that, as is said, people who are racist or overtly offensive get warned, instead of banned, and so - instead of ceasing to be insulting and aggressive - those who receive warnings simply resort to passive-aggressive, indirect attacks and insults. For example, if someone gets warned for saying "muslims suck" in a pro-peaceful Islam thread, then they'll start their own thread which says, "All Muslims want to destroy America!" Simply warning people for being offensive usually fails to correct their behavior in any kind of meaningful way. All they do is rephrase their attacks to make them less overt.

The biggest problem is that, frankly, I think the heuristic the staff uses for what is and isn't offensive seems grounded in nonsense. I'm not hating on the staff, I just think that their efforts to determine what is and isn't offensive rely more heavily on how much somebody swears or how many times they call someone else an idiot than what the comment insinuates or what the intention of the comment is. That is, the way that comments are judged seems very superficial and ill-defined. The T&Cs are very explicit, but I see violations all the time and they aren't moderated.

Specifically, I see breaches of 1g and 2 of the T&C all the time and yet nothing is done about them. I feel like it's very difficult to take the rules seriously when you see flagrant violations on a regular basis and very little is being done. I realize the staff are not superhuman and cannot be expected to omnisciently moderate every single post, but there are still many instances where I see threads with many posts removed for "displeasurable behavior," yet there are still blatantly bigoted and biased posts being made that can only be described as political baiting. I think even just reading which posts the "displeasurable" posts are replying to would have an effect, because often the displeasure didn't begin with the person being moderated.

That's just my two cents, sorry for the wall o' text.

to quote a couple of good fellow who might have been insiders or just thinkers

ARTIST: Zager and Evans
TITLE: In the Year 2525 Lyrics and Chords


In the year 2525 If man is still alive If woman can survive they may find

/ Em / D / C B7 /

In the year 3535
Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies
Everything you think, do and say
Is in the pill you took today

In the year 4545
Ain't gonna need your teeth, won't need your eyes
You won't find a thing to chew
Nobody's gonna look at you

In the year 5555
Your arms hanging limp at your sides
Your legs got nothing to do
Some machine's doing that for you

In the year 6565
Ain't gonna need no husband, won't need no wife
You'll pick your son, pick your daughter too
From the bottom of a long glass tube, whoa-oh

In the year 7510
If God's a-comin' He oughta make it by then
Maybe He'll look around Himself and say
Guess it's time for the judgment day

In the year 8510
God is gonna shake His mighty head
He'll either say I'm pleased where man has been
Or tear it down and start again, whoa-oh

In the year 9595
I'm kinda wonderin' if man is gonna be alive
He's taken everything this old
Earth can give And he ain't put back nothin', whoa-oh

Now it's been ten thousand years
Man has cried a billion tears
For what he never knew

Now man's reign is through
But through eternal night

The twinkling of starlight
So very far away
Maybe it's only yesterday

In the year 2525
If man is still alive If woman can survive, they may find In the year 3535 [fade]

[edit on 16-8-2010 by zerbot565]

This is the fault of ATS administration.
Lokk at this post:

Originally posted by masterp

KICK THE IMMIGRANTS OUT

That's the only solution. Don't wait for the government. Do it yourself. Politicians are traitors. We don't want to live with people that destroy our culture.

There are many such posts encouraging racism, hatred and violence. This is not a speech of freedom. If I see such a post, it is not easy to controll myself and reply with a language that he can understand.
You have to show no tolerance to such posts. That is that simple!