"What's with the anger on ATS?"

Originally posted by kosmicjack


As this is ATS, I expect an elevated sense of decorum and debate.

Simply 'expecting' is not going to make it happen.

The web is an ocean filled w. the absolute gutter slime of humanity, and 10% thoughtful evolved creatures. ATS is no different.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
For me it boils down to this:

If I wanted to read the MSM talking points and all of the predictable and trite comments, replies, responses and feigned outrage - I would log onto another, more corporate and mainstream news website.

As this is ATS, I expect deeper and more critical thought about the issues - from all perspectives - and an elevated sense of decorum and debate.

This is what’s so disturbing during times like this.

So many members go around the site the bulk of the time talking about how evolved and awake they are, when the discussions are based on hypothetical and theories, and future possible events.

Yet as soon as a real emotional hot button issue comes up where the MSM is exploiting and fueling emotional reactions with diatribes of their own, too many of those same members then revert right back to the dogmas they previously had claimed to have abandoned and evolved away from once waking up, to join those they normally term sheeple in the fray on one side, and very often the very side and in the very way that they previously had theorized would be detrimental for the awake and evolved.

When asked most will say, but Proto this is different, they did this, or they did that, and it’s just wrong, and it makes me so angry.

It’s the strangest thing to watch these people devolve even while they still insist they are evolved, and become part of driving the very events they wanted to evolve away from.

Peer pressure plays a part but only a limited one, fear and anger play a much bigger role, and while many might imagine they are awake, to the ‘real’ world, and evolving, the truth is that if you aren’t focused on the mastery of your emotions and emotional self discipline as part of that being awake and evolving, then when that trial by fire comes, far too many of us seem to be failing.

I think we could all use some more Kosmic Jack in this regard.

I am not claiming I am evolved, I lump myself into the same category,

and I have been know to hit below the belt,

and I have many times wanted to leave the forum.

The fact of the matter is you have to be somewhat twisted to post on these forums, you have to be willing to get into the fray, it is still a learning experience, and if someone points out something about you, you don't particularly want to hear, perhaps we should do a lot of self examination, all of us.

Tough love, is what the person said fact?,

and you learn from it, then they have helped you on your path.

I don't complain to mods anymore haven't for a long time, that's is what I mean by complaining.

And I don't choose friends because they always agree with me,

Oh, and don't take yourself to seriously,

keep your sense of humor,

If you don't have a sense of Humor, get one.





[edit on 073131p://bTuesday2010 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

Interesting thread.

For the most part it appears everyone sees anyone who does not agree with their points of view as the problem. The anger and venom is caused by SOMEBODY ELSE. Your anger and angry words are justified, while those who disagree are not.

I'd say the solution lies in mutual tolerance and respect.

This reflects what we are seeing in our day to day lives. A Church puts up a Nativity scene on Christmas, an angry Atheist pretends it somehow harms them and wants it taken down. A Media Matters fan thinks Glenn Beck fans are crazed Racists and a Glenn Beck fan thinks Media Matters fan's are Far Left Loons. A Republican thinks Democrats are all drug crazed, Socialist Hippies and the Democrats think all Republicans are evil Capitalist Pigs who want to enslave them.

I'm not sure there is a solution. We are hardwired this way. I think its in our genetics and stems back to tribalism and the days when we acted on these things with deadly force. It was necessary for our survival to limit competition for food and resources. When we removed those needs, our natures did not change as quickly as we have. We see threats where none exist because of that.

Add that to anonymity and you get a problem that can only be generally controlled. I think you either do your best to control it and beyond that live with it as a fact of life, or you shut the board down. You will never stop it.

I think a discussion like this every few months is a step in the right direction. It gives people an outlet to vent from. Other than that, your rules are reasonable as they are, changing them won't matter. Perhaps you might increase the number of Mod's? I don't know if that would help or not. It could go either way.

Compared to the other boards I've visited, you are doing great.

One thing that might have a positive impact is to remove the competition for flags and stars, which I've seen as a negative all along. It seems to turn it into a sport and we all know how sports fans act.

There is a big mixture there Blaine, and I see aspects of what you say. But I also see predictable and often "angry" responses when there should an enquiry instead, and from individuals who you know of from past experience will be the par for the course. I have no idea how to deal with that sort of dogma other than ignore it..not always easy. I think any forum should be about an exchange of information from the outset of a thread, the OP, and the responders and asking questions, or making speculative statements, hopefully to bring in more info. Some things posted can seem absolutely ridiculous from a point of view, like "I am an Alien" or "God is" but then there is no truth absolute..although I'm not absolutely sure about that!

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Oh, and don't take yourself to seriously,

keep your sense of humor,

If you don't have a sense of Humor, get one.

Amen sister.
Well put.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


ATS subject matter is often incendiary as it challenges the notion of one's common world view. Some posters are particularly opinonated and are not affraid to show it. Humanity is a very reactionary species and when faced with an idea that goes against the grain that it (humanity) is moving in, that idea sometimes generates an emotional response rather than the logical response.
Debunking or counterpoints should be made using as much of the original posts material as possible. Without ridicule but, point by point proof to the contrary. That way the original poster's sensibillities are not offended.
This issue is complicated in that any response is open for debate, including this one. So, when posting, one should be open to the idea that the subject matter may touch a nerve with some readers.

The bottom line is this website is mainstream and doesn't want to get in trouble. So watch what you say. And if you want the truth then I suggest we look elsewhere. Thumbs down.

This article from slate.com, "How Black People Use Twitter"

www.slate.com...

says that some black people are used to communicating with other black people on twitter, in ways that would be deemed racist if others saw the tweets. Maybe they forget that here on ATS everyone sees the posts?

So that's one of many reasons "racism" isn't something I would worry about. After all I am of a race, and not of other races, so by default I guess I'm racist!

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Thank you for this thread. I have noticed this as well. Often the first response to a thread is negative and mean, frequently with it being obvious that the person responding didn't even read the whole post or go to the posted links. It is as if being rude and nasty has become "cool" on ATS.

I believe that there has been a growing concern surrounding the "organised"derailing or threads on ATS,creating a general feeling of discourse among members and visitors alike,the actual source of this intentional watering down of the quality of information exchange is difficult to pinpoint but the results are obvious and concerning.

There have been recent instances of interesting and relevant information exchanges being BURIED INTENTIONALLY UNDER THINLY VEILED PRETENSES,or essentially what appear to be direct actions by concerned parties that DO NOT want the very information ATS was designed to make available ---posted in an accesable sequence.

The mods must see this happening and are taking no remedial action,or dont know what action to take.

There are no rules regarding "straying slightly from the main issue"it is impossible to be precise in moderating the general discussion when a minor aspect is repeatedly infused with contentious emotionally charged sub-issues and then is used as backfill to redirect the readers focus,but when repeated and unified efforts are made to manipulate this dynamic the individual who has chosen to visit this site feels UNDERMINED,wether they are a member or a visitor.

And the Hoax board needs to be discontinued,the purpose of ATS seems to be undermined by allowing a dynamic to exist in which a determined group of posters working cooperatively can "convince"someone to put what is the meat of this site into a proverbial jail cell.

There is no foolproof way to designate anything a hoax,you can only accept a specific number of "votes"of non-confidence and then take action based on these numbers,this is the intrinsic flaw in the existing system and it is being exploited and this direct and focused exploitation is affecting the quality of information exchange on ATS,and this is contributing to the general sense of discord we are witnessing.

The infusion of emotionally charged innuendos on any given thread is a common tactic of derailing a relevant and interesting exchange of communication.This creates an intentionally contrived "angry"overtone,focused and planned and implemented.

Obviously this tactic has been utilised to the degree that the entire site is suffering the repercussions .

When you have members explicitly stating that they are observing threads being intentionally buried under page after page of disinformation disguised as "emotionall charged fringe content to the original topic" and when the mods dont or cant react you enable this general sense of "anger" or discord to proliferate.

A recent thread I participated in was buried under over FIFTEEN PAGES OF CRAP by a united effort iniatiated by SEVERAL posters,we are talking about over fifteen pages here in one day!!!And no red flags observed by the mods????

Anyone familiar with the ATS threads knows that even by disinformation standards this is OVERKILL.That many pages of cover is obscene.


Lets just say that to the iniated the "confirmed hoaxes" are a good starting place for finding the true gems hidden in the vast amount of information exchange that happens here on ATS.This is because this undermineing tactic has been going on for so long that some pretty serious and revealing issues have been intentionally buried in a directed co-operative action designed to undermine the very basic tenants that ATS was based upon.

Maybe you could set up a 'Dems Fightin Words Mister' thread.A permanent and unmoderated thread where ill behaved/overly passionate posters could be diverted to, from the thread they are spoiling.

Stick em all in there with all their chosen topics and let them tear each other apart in the melee.Anyone who enjoys such discussion would be free to follow the thread and those who don't can totally ignore it.Once in there, the trouble makers won't want to ever leave.

You never know.It might work.

reply to post by one4all


One4all.....

And the Hoax board needs to be discontinued,the purpose of ATS seems to be undermined by allowing a dynamic to exist in which a determined group of posters working cooperatively can "convince"someone to put what is the meat of this site into a proverbial jail cell.

Which cases in the Hoax Forum do you believe are "real", as in not hoaxes?

Which specific members do you think are working together to push "real" cases into the Hoax Forum?

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Originally posted by one4all
There is no foolproof way to designate anything a hoax

There absolutely are several means by which claims that range from the extraordinary to mundane can be proven to be either a hoax, or based on false information.

Obviously this tactic has been utilised to the degree that the entire site is suffering the repercussions

I very much disagree.

Those who care about proving provable conspiracies, paranormal experiences, extraterrestrial sightings, political scandals, and all the other topics on ATS must embrace and seek out the aid of those who would debunk. Because those ideas, theories, postulations, and events that survive intense skeptical analysis are the precious core of what we seek.

Conspiracy theorists must be skeptical by nature and reject "belief systems" that habitually favor one point of view over another.

I agree that the actions and effects of debunkers is an integral component of the process through which we attain an opportunity to delineate fact from fiction,BUT,I am directly referring to the intentional application of emotionally charged "fringe elements"related to topics being discussed on specific threads.

This is a blatant redirection in many instances of both the authentic information providers and the authentic debunkers who may be on the thread by a third party with a vested interest.

This dynamic I am pointing out is not a traditional exchange of information which I believe you are referring to in terms of the importance of including the debunkers perspective in the information exchange process.

Please note the thread "New Hoaglund and Greer disclosure is coming!"as a prime example,find my first post,look at the content and SHEER number of posts that were initiated after my information was interjected into the thread.Note the speed with which my aforementioned misdirective dynamic is instituted by a TEAM of cooperating posters,note the volume of posts and note the content of each of those posts keeping in mind the cooperative effort.Dont forget that intermingled will be posters who are also expressing my feelings regarding these obvious misdirective actions ,it isnt that hard to delineate between both authentic information providers and authentic debunkers AND THIS GROUP OF AGENDA DRIVEN POSTERS who dont fit into either of the first two categories.

Identifying the dynamic is easy,the motives also fairly easy,the source however is not so easy to identify.We must all respect annonymity ,however patterns connected to members who post in a cooperative mutually supportive yet disruptive fashion NOT RELATED TO EITHER THE INFORMATION PROVIDER OR DEBUNKER still seem to surface.When these same members repeatedly present themselves as a part of this interuptive and intentionally misdirective dynamic,it becomes noticable.

And the disruptive effects of this third party ,if you will ,directly impact in a negative manner all ATS members and visitors to the site.This is very different than the effect that debunkers have on the aforementioned parties,debunkers stimulate and invigorate threads and information exchange,THEY DO NOT MISDIRECT AND HINDER INFORMATION EXCHANGE THROUGH THE INTENTIONAL INTERJECTION OF EMOTIONALLY CHARGED FRINGE COMPONENTS OF THE ORIGINAL TOPIC BEING DISCUSSED.

So I feel we are in agreement as to the importance of including the debunkers perspective in all information exchanges,how do you feel about the institution of the negative impacting dynamic I just outlined to you?
Was I able to illustrate how this disruptive action is being intentionally focused on specific threads in a cooperative manner by more than one poster with a common agenda?A third party ,if you will.






[edit on 18-8-2010 by one4all]

[edit on 18-8-2010 by one4all]

[edit on 18-8-2010 by one4all]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

An interesting example is this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

where the debunkers are repeatedly rude and, well, repetitive.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord


Those who care about proving provable conspiracies, paranormal experiences, extraterrestrial sightings, political scandals, and all the other topics on ATS must embrace and seek out the aid of those who would debunk. Because those ideas, theories, postulations, and events that survive intense skeptical analysis are the precious core of what we seek.

Conspiracy theorists must be skeptical by nature and reject "belief systems" that habitually favor one point of view over another.

Well, that would seem to be the idea anyways. I tend to get upset, or mainly just irritated when nothing has been proven, or debunked, but since one of "The Gods of ATS" (not the mods) says something must be so (birds, bugs, lanterns, space poop, etc) everyone else must fall into line, lock-step, march on....

Seriously not pointing out anyone in particular, it's more of an attitude. I know I've learned a lot from people I almost put on ignore (glad I've done this to no one) But the haughty, know-it-all, end-of-story, postings are getting old...

I know I try to just state my opinions from time-to-time, I rarely have the time to get into a debate here since to do so properly would entail numerous source citing and links, etc. That's not being lazy or loose with facts, that's just admitting my time restraints, plus I do so much of it at school, that most of my time here is for pleasure....not fighting or hurling insults....

reply to post by one4all


One4all.....

Please note the thread "New Hoaglund and Greer disclosure is coming!"as a prime example,find my first post,look at the content and SHEER number of posts that were initiated after my information was interjected into the thread.

Of the "information" to which you refer, is there any of that "information" you would describe as incorrect?

Note the speed with which my aforementioned misdirective dynamic is instituted by a TEAM of cooperating posters

Do you have an opinion as to the members who might comprise the "TEAM of cooperating posters"?

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Yes my opinion is that their actions identify them and they are like minded or share a common agenda,you I believe are seeking an accusatory offering of member names from me,no such thing will be forthcoming,each individual here on ATS has just as much ability to identify this dynamic and the posters involved as you and I have.

I am illustrating a functioning dynamic and I believe you are attempting to indirectly instigate and initiate a witchhunt,that is not and will never be my intent.

We are all aware how easy it is to open as many member accounts as we have computers or IP addresses,that is a resource based issue.Cooperatively utilising numerous accounts certainly presents a window of opportunity through which one could further the third party agenda I am referring to,dont you think,Maybe-maybe-not?

reply to post by Hadrian


You are exactly right..
When people make thread's that call Hitler a nice guy we are allowed to tear that thread to shred's for the op being a nazi scumbag lol..

But when a person says one word bad about obama....oh lord that's a different story...at least during the election

And the I love Muslim thing going on lately makes me so sick i can't stand it.
But Personally will not even post in the thread.

But when they post a Mulim loving thread Of course 5 other ..the reason we shouldn't trust muslim thread's pop up.
And 90% of the time they have good proof it's a violent based religion .

but to each they own..different strokes for different folk's.

But the moral is i think..
People should not make a topic to bash another person's topic on purpose as if to call it out.
it causes bad blood ..

Forgive me if this has been said before. But, I think it has a lot to do with a certain what I call "crusader attitude" a certain percent of the membership base brings here. They are right. Whoever is wrong. And they have no problem shoving their percieved righteousness down the throat of anyone who will listen. And when that whoever resists, that is simply untennable. Must be addressed, by any means necessary. Their enemies percieved "ignorance" is viewed as a slight against themselves that must be attacked.
Some people need to learn that not everyone is going to agree with them and that is fine. That disagreement need not be inherently a declaration of superiority.