Muslim leaders to abandon plans for Ground Zero community center

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
What about churches near the oklahama city bombing?

Churches have what to do McVeigh? I don't have a clue as to what analogy you're trying to make.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
If the Islamic community is serious about mending fences, then they should honor the innocent people killed on 11 SEP 01 by building a memorial for them and condemning the perpetrators of the attack on the WTC.

Once again, people want a few to answer for the whole. Every race, religion and country needs to apologize to someone for something. And since Muslims innocently died too I'm sure someone would say they were only doing it for their own kind. And obviously you believe the official story of 9/11

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
I do not care what the reasons. I read a story the other day that said 68 % of Americans are against this. If true then this is a fine example of democracy in action. The people have spoken, no matter what their reasons, this is the law of our land and therefore is right and just.

Yep, the majority disagrees with their constitution and essentially renders it useless. Majority isn't the law here, the constitution is the law. Maybe you're thinking this is a jury, I don't know. That wouldn't create any bitterness or feelings of hypocrisy, would it? Freedom of religion, but only if the majority agrees.

Originally posted by AHall88
Easy answer, it was muslims that attacked us and declared war.

No, it's not that easy. Extremists of the Muslim faith attacked us. And that's if you believe the OS. Let me guess, all contractors are untrustworthy, all Italians are Mafia, all priests are pedophiles, all cops are crooked, all Irish are drunks and all plumbers have plumbers butt?




Everyone who's against this I suggest you write you congress people and rally in DC for an amendment to freedom of religion. Then it'll be a non issue. Freedom of religion to whatever the majority deems acceptable.

I ask everyone who is or was against this, how far away from ground zero is comfortable for a mosque? 4 blocks? 10 blocks? 20 blocks? A mile? Not in Manhattan? Other?

Originally posted by Soloist

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Sorry, but what you posted is also not a declaration of war against the US.

Sure it is. Once again :

The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah."

Not sure how you can't see it. Unless of course you are in denial, or a Muslim apologist.

Islam must be crushed? What of the people?

Yes, crushed. Destroyed. Taken out of existence. That is the only way this will ever stop. Some people don't have the stomach for it and I understand that. We're not up against a country but an extremely backwards ideology that is not helping people, it is killing people, all in the name of God.

You ask what of the people? I ask you what of the people they have killed? Tens of thousands of innocents killed, many times that wounded and maimed, in less than a decade. The real death toll could be much much higher.

Yet we see no one in Islam doing a damn thing to stop this behavior. This is what I meant about the silent masses. We hear death threats (and we know they aren't empty ones as past evidence shows) over freaking cartoons hurting their sensitivities, and do they care about ours? Hell no, they want to build their little cult center near where the effect of their "religion" murdered 3000 innocent people! Where's the respect for OUR sensitivities?

What about the people? Screw the people, they will do just fine without being in this barbaric death cult called Islam.

Disgusting, calling for genocide because of your bigoted beliefs.

Ironic you call THEM barbaric.

Originally posted by Gentill Abdulla

Hopefully one day we will all be rid of people who go about saying things without understanding the very basic teachings of the thing they hate so much.

That's nice and all, however I have relatives who fled Iran in 79 and lived in Saudi Arabia until the 90's and they would STRONGLY disagree with you and your perception.

The numbers don't lie, 15,000 + terror attacks since 9/11 by Muslims. 50,000 + dead in Darfur, the list goes on and on.

Why do you folk REFUSE to take ownership of the problem. If it was Buddhists we could ask them the same question, if it were Hindu's we would do the same.

But no matter what Muslims will not admit to the problem, they deny deny deny while people keep ending up slaughtered!

Does anyone here remember Skokie, Illinois?

Way back in the 70s, the Nazis got a permit to march through Skokie, Ill. ... a large Jewish community. Now, by rights...they had the right to do so. But should they?.....No. But they did.

Now the Muslims have the right to build, but should they? If they believe in the peace and sensitivity and tolerance and understanding claimed by our great leader... Chairman Obama, then they will decline building there.

On the otherhand, if they do....do I have the right to build a BBQ Pork restuarant next door?

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Wal lawsie, massa, I giss I jess be g'win back out to that there field and get mah missum an chilluns back to choppin that there cotton fir ya, yessuh.

Seriously.

You misunderstand. In the south, it was common to own slaves but they were not united with the united states as a whole, even though they were part of it.

When the Nation as a whole had a chance to examine the issue, ( The Majority) They deemed slavery inappropriate. This lead to the current anti slavery laws.

The slave owners in the south did not represent a majority of the people.

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

The purpose of rights is to protect the minority from the rule of the majority..

Amazing that you can't understand that.

Rights were supposed to be inalienable. That means they can't be taken away! Regardless if 1000 people think that 1 person shouldn't have the same rights.

Wrong.

All rights are not inalienable.

Rights are only protected as much in the Constitution so that the Federal Government itself as it's own entity cannot take them away.

But, A majority vote of the people as a whole (The Republic) does have the power to change the laws as they relate to the rights of others - to decide what rights the minority should have.

You may have a group of people who believe it is their right to smoke cigarettes anywhere they please. It is true they can treat their bodies any way they please.. and even some religions condone this. But if The Majority of the people disagree, a law gets passed to halt the smoking in certain environments where they feel they are at risk from second hand smoke.

Besides, my original post said nothing about rights. The mosque builders do have a right to build the mosque there, but the people deemed this to be unwise for a number of reasons. It did not have anything to do with rights. This pressure is what is making the builders back down.




[edit on 16-8-2010 by JohnPhoenix]

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
On the otherhand, if they do....do I have the right to build a BBQ Pork restuarant next door?

Absolutely! Just as the gay bar has the same right to do so. Could it be perceived as sensitive? Yes. Is it wrong? Questionable upon your stance. Is it your discretion and right? Yes! If I said otherwise I'd be a hypocrite.


Edit to add:

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
But, A majority vote of the people as a whole (The Republic) does have the power to change the laws as they relate to the rights of others - to decide what rights the minority should have.[edit on 16-8-2010 by JohnPhoenix]

Absolutely agreed!!!!!!

Versus what you previously wrote:

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
I do not care what the reasons. I read a story the other day that said 68 % of Americans are against this. If true then this is a fine example of democracy in action. The people have spoken, no matter what their reasons, this is the law of our land and therefore is right and just.

BIG difference, no?

[edit on 8/16/2010 by Three_moons]

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by ZindoDoone

 

How many Muslim murderers are on death row in US prisons?
Okay.
Now how many Christians?

How many raped women are on death row in Muslim countries?

Another line

Originally posted by Gentill Abdulla

My name is Gentill Abdulla. I am a Muslim. Us Muslims do not view terrorists, as in extremists Muslims or any other kind of extremists, as heroes.

Nor do we have any death chants.

And coming from a person who has actually been a part of a Mosque since the very beginning there are absolutely no death chants from any Mosque I have ever been too. This means Mecca, a different one in Houston, Hamza Masjid, Al-Amin, I don't remember the name of this one but it's green, and Medina, again a different one in Houston.

So by that I create a poll...

6 out of 6 Mosques DO NOT PRACTICE death chants towards America.

Hopefully one day we will all be rid of people who go about saying things without understanding the very basic teachings of the thing they hate so much.

The mosques you have been to might be fine and so might many other mosques in the country.

The fact is that hardly anyone cares if mosques are built in the U.S. and there are millions of places where one can build a mosque and be tolerated.

The real problem is why does a mosque have to be built in that spot? It's like erecting a monument to nuclear weapons advancement in the middle of Hiroshima. Or its like dedicating U.S. army memorials on the site of Native American massacres.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Three cheers for intimidation and bigotry! Hup hup hooray! Hup hup, hooray! Hup hup, hooray!

Personally I'm hoping that Haaretz is wrong, simply because otherwise, a very ugly precedent is set.

That's the progressive way to spin the reality of the situation.

Even Obama half-assedly acknowledged the reality on Saturday:

That while it may have been perfectly legal and perfectly justified for the owners to make whatever use they wanted of their property, it was not appropriate; especially in light of their own stated intentions of "reconciliation."

Legality does not equate with propriety.

jw

Originally posted by jdub297

That while it may have been perfectly legal and perfectly justified for the owners to make whatever use they wanted of their property, it was not appropriate; especially in light of their own stated intentions of "reconciliation."

Legality does not equate with propriety.

jw

Yea right at owners being able to make whatever use of their property.

Ever see the zoning laws in many cities? Ever go through the government hoops about putting in a new front porch?

How many places would be fine with sticking a Le Sex Shoppe in front of an elementary school?

How many places would allow cross burnings in front yards?

The hypocrisy is amazing, especially when it comes from the government. They are all for a mosque on ground zero without caring about taste because it is "constitutional" and this is America. Then they turn around a step on the 2nd amendment and try to take away people's gun rights. Oh please.

First I just want to state that I am left speechless in regard to all of the racists coming out of the woodwork lately here on ATS. I find it to be rather disgusting.

As far as the mosque not being built, I only hope that this decision was not influenced by the racists as that would truly be a sad state of affairs. It is so clear to me that this gets the Governments foot in the door to more control in our lives. Following this path, one will not be able to build any religious center that is opposed by the majority. People of all religions should be allowed to worship however and wherever they please as long as it does not harm others. This was at one time one of the most basic principles in the United States, however it appears that this principle may be eroding.

Originally posted by centurion1211
People are constantly posting about the need for sensitivity to muslims, but it HAS to work both ways. Muslims also need to be sensitive to the wishes of their American hosts.

And doesn't this thread prove that they are? At least in this case?

Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by centurion1211
People are constantly posting about the need for sensitivity to muslims, but it HAS to work both ways. Muslims also need to be sensitive to the wishes of their American hosts.

And doesn't this thread prove that they are? At least in this case?

After a general outcry from the American people.

An outcry that did not include flag burning, effigy burning, car burning, riots, fatwas, assassinations, and general threats by the way.

Originally posted by wutone

The real problem is why does a mosque have to be built in that spot? It's like erecting a monument to nuclear weapons advancement in the middle of Hiroshima. Or its like dedicating U.S. army memorials on the site of Native American massacres.

This isn't a monument toward the terrorist attacks.It is an Islamic center.

It isn't even close to a monument.

Us Muslims hate extremist terrorist just as much, if not more, then you guys do.

Think about it EXTREMISTS AREN'T GIVING AMERICANS A BAD NAME THEY ARE GIVING THE WHOLE RELIGION OF ISLAM A BAD NAME.

And this isn't even including the fact that the media CHOOSES TO SHOW THE STORY FROM ONLY THE ANGLE THAT SUITS THEM BEST.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
I do not care what the reasons. I read a story the other day that said 68 % of Americans are against this. If true then this is a fine example of democracy in action. The people have spoken, no matter what their reasons, this is the law of our land and therefore is right and just.

Actually umm no.

The laws of our land being the constitution makes no mention of "democracy", it does however make mention of a Republic, which has been explained many times by our founders to be one thats purpose is to protect the rights of the FEW.

Democracy is something the founders loathed, and anyone who views this news as good needs a history lesson because its a very sad day when the rights of the few are trumped by the will of a mob. it goes against everything this country stood for.

Originally posted by Gentill Abdulla

This isn't a monument toward the terrorist attacks.It is an Islamic center.

It isn't even close to a monument.

It's a mosque.

Not just any mosque, but the Cordoba House. This isn't some center. This is a a dedication to the conquest of Spain in the middle ages and an insult to the intelligence of anyone who knows history as well as a slap on the face of all Americans.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix



How much do you know of our history in the US? You should read the preamble to the declaration of the independence.

Smoking cigarettes is not the right I refered to. As there is no protection for smoking in the constitution

There is however protection for freedom of expression and religion.

Rights aren't granted, only protected by the government.

Not going to add anything else.

I mis-read your post with thought that you were saying they should move because a majority of people think they should.

Originally posted by wutone
An outcry that did not include flag burning, effigy burning, car burning, riots, fatwas, assassinations, and general threats by the way.

It didn't? You could have fooled me.

Don't get me wrong. A gay bar and a BBQ aren't the same as what you say, but ,you get the point I hope. You don't think that it wouldn't have come to that? I don't have as much faith in the so-called "Christians" as you must.

Originally posted by Nutter

Originally posted by wutone
An outcry that did not include flag burning, effigy burning, car burning, riots, fatwas, assassinations, and general threats by the way.

It didn't? You could have fooled me.

Don't get me wrong. A gay bar and a BBQ aren't the same as what you say, but ,you get the point I hope. You don't think that it wouldn't have come to that? I don't have as much faith in the so-called "Christians" as you must.

I am sure that a gay bar proposal as a protest is far better than a fatwa. Just ask a certain Danish cartoonist.