X-15 Rocket Plane - UFO Encounters on the Edge of Space

reply to post by JimOberg


If there is any one in world that could come up with a plausible explanation of what this object could be? Well, I could not have asked for anyone better.This is great! I feel privileged that you are able to give us some insight on this case.
Here is the big question.Was the object traveling forward? and do "you'' think it was ice?
On a side note. Do you still talk to Rudiak?

[edit on 16-8-2010 by flyingfish]

Originally posted by flyingfish
reply to post by JimOberg

 

If there is any one in world that could come up with a plausible explanation of what this object could be? Well, I could not have asked for anyone better.This is great! I feel privileged that you are able to give us some insight on this case.
Here is the big question.Was the object traveling forward? and do "you'' think it was ice?
On a side note. Do you still talk to Rudiak?

[edit on 16-8-2010 by flyingfish]

I never could determine what frame 'forward' referred to -- when you notice the pilot asking for his angle of attack, he's asking how high his nose is up, relative to the velocity vector. This is crucial to surviving reentry, his reason for asking -- but it also could provide info on the aero flow vector past the X-15. Something going 'past' could easily be moving across his field of view, rather than overtaking him (that would be 'passed'... -- sadly, both sound the same in audio transcripts).

I haven't been in touch with Rudiak recently but i value people's originiality, enthusiasm, and out-of-box notions more than trivial stuff like mutual ego-stroking. Agreeing with me or not is no criterion for foundation for a firm friendship...

reply to post by JimOberg


Ego-Stroking? My sarcasm is to subtle.Lets say you have not answered all my questions appropriately to further this discussion.

Flying Saucer Review from May '65 covered Joe Walker's claims...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/20253cf255a8.jpg[/atsimg]

It'd be interesting to read the full article in Le Matin.

I agree with James Oberg that way too many alleged pilot/astronaut accounts are misrepresented. Joe Walker's accounts seem different and remain in the grey area. If he said he saw something extraordinary...it's hard to doubt him.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Flying Saucer Review from May '65 covered Joe Walker's claims...

I agree with James Oberg that way too many alleged pilot/astronaut accounts are misrepresented. Joe Walker's accounts seem different and remain in the grey area. If he said he saw something extraordinary...it's hard to doubt him.

I'd believe that Walker quote more if I saw it in the original English in a source closer to him actually -- supposedly - saying it. Problem is, he could well have said something very close to what the frenchie wrote, like 'I'm supposed to keep my eye out for the unusual on these flights', and be entirely truthful but irreleant to the UFO discussion.

reply to post by JimOberg
Agreed. The contents of the article could be more interesting and informative.

A little more digging in the FSR archives shows our faithful friend...ice particle...making an early appearance.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a28842b7240d.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7ee8ee59dcff.jpg[/atsimg]

From FSR 1962 Jul-Aug

Originally posted by JimOberg
We can see an airplane-looking object overhead that, conceivably, is a camouflaged UFO. Betty Hill saw them all the time. It's practically impossible to disprove.

Ice 'balls' do not move several thousands miles per hour, along with the X-15. Beside, even if ice 'balls' had the ability (THEY DON'T HAVE THAT ABILITY!) to move several thousands miles per hour, THESE ICE 'BALLS' WOULD MELT DOWN IN NO TIME! Both Betty and Barney were ABDUCTED BY THESE ALIEN BEINGS! www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Anunaki10
Ice 'balls' do not move several thousands miles per hour, along with the X-15. Beside, even if ice 'balls' had the ability (THEY DON'T HAVE THAT ABILITY!) to move several thousands miles per hour, THESE ICE 'BALLS' WOULD MELT DOWN IN NO TIME! Both Betty and Barney were ABDUCTED BY THESE ALIEN BEINGS! www.youtube.com...

Sure they do. You gonna go up there and hold up a STOP sign?

I'll wait down here and hold your coat.

When you just refuse to believe the normal vehicle-associated debris that has occurred since the first human orbital flights, and can't recognize the revolutionary realities of the unearthly realm of outer space, your grasp on this new reality is sadly ineffective. And I bet you think of yourself as 'open minded'. Sigh.

Originally posted by JimOberg
Sure they do. You gonna go up there and hold up a STOP sign?

I think any ice 'balls' travelling at 4,000 mph would melt down to water particles, before it reach my STOP sign Maybe some few water particles would hit the STOP sign, and nothing more. Meteorites begin to melt at these hights after they enter Earth's atmosphere. Beside, the video show that there was no ice on the X-15 all the way from take off from the B-52.

During take off from the B-52 the footages clearly shows there was no ice on the X-15, also during the rear view when the X-15 reached 4,000 mph.
Another thing is that during supersonic speed, the material of the jet crafts is exposed to extreme heat at these high speeds www.dfrc.nasa.gov...

X-15A-2 post flight photo showing HEAT DAMAGE from Mach 6.7 flight on 3 Oct 67. Flt. 2-53-97; pilot-Pete Knight.

en.wikipedia.org...

A particularly difficult issue with flight at over Mach 3 is the HIGH TEMPERATURES GENERATED. As an aircraft moves through the air at supersonic speed, the air in front of the aircraft is compressed into a supersonic shock wave, and the energy generated by this HEATS the AIRFRAME. To address this problem, high-temperature materials were needed, and the airframe of the SR-71 was substantially made of titanium, obtained from the USSR at the height of the Cold War.

So it would be impossible for any ice to be created on these jet crafts, even impossible on the SR-71 Black Bird, during supersonic speeds.

You are trying to impose your own fantasies upon the unwilling universe by sheer force of will, even though nothing to are so certain you know about ice on spacecraft is actually true. It's actually kind of fascinating to watch. Fortunately, you will never be in a profession where being wrong actually counts.


“The greatest obstacle to discovering the shape of the earth, the continents, and the oceans was not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge."
Daniel Boorstin


“Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.”
Nietzsche

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
The X-15 UFO sightings were very much like John Glenn's "fireflies." Frost built up on the fuselage in the area of the liquid oxygen tank and then flaked off as the skin flexed. White's description of the objects certainly fits the frost theory.

It might also be important to examine how much excitement (or lack thereof) was generated by his sighting during and after the flight. I am looking at the original flight transcripts as write this (NASA 1 is the control room at the NASA Flight Research Center at Edwards AFB).

NASA 1: OK, looks like your'e about the peak and speed brakes out.

White: Roger. [pause] There's lots of things out there. Absolutely is! [pause] What's my angle of attack?

NASA 1: We don't have any better presentation than he does. We're coming back down through, approaching 285. Anticipate a position in correction turn to the right whenever you have the ability to do so.

White then acknowledges the transmission and makes a garbled comment about the view from maximum altitude. The remaining transmissions pertain to maneuvers and control setting for approach and landing.

There are no further comments on the mystery objects until the postflight debriefing. According to the transcript, White's very first comment at the debriefing was, "The only thing that was unusual was the FCS [flight control system] tripout and it was the DC circuit breaker on the MH [adaptive flight controls] system." The first several paragraphs detail White's comments on controllability of the vehicle during the climb to altitude.

White then offers "a few quick observations." From the NASA transcript:

White: "While I was level I started noticing some things and I said, 'Now wait a minute, they must be inside the cockpit,' but they were outside the cockpit. It looked like perhaps it might have been residue or frost or very small little things going by."

He then describes the object that looked like a piece of paper about the size of his hand, just off to the left side and level with the cockpit window. He describes several smaller objects on the right side that may have come from the nose of the vehicle.

At this point, White starts talking about his altitude and how it compared with his previous flight. There is no mention of frost or mysterious objects throughout the remaining five pages of transcript. There is only a detailed discussion of vehicle controllability and handling qualities through reentry and landing. There seemed to be no further interest among the pilots and project engineers at the debriefing.

NASA didn't exactly keep the incident a secret. Sometime between 23 July and 7 September 1962, the Public Affairs Office at NASA's Flight Research Center issued NASA News release 11-62 stating that NASA Officials had released photographs taken during White's flight, taken by a motion picture camera mounted in the aircraft's lower tail fin. The pictures showed "an undetermined sized object of a grey-white color tumbling slowly above and behind the X-15."

NASA technicians had correlated the frames of film showing the object had with other flight data and determined that the photos were taken as the X-15 climbed through 270,000 feet. They could not say for certain whether the object in the pictures was the same one reported by White.

The news release also noted Joe Walker's sighting at an altitude of 246,700 feet on 30 April 1962. According the to release, "After a detailed examination and study, NASA officials found these objects to be particles of ice flaking off the frosty sides of the research aircraft."

Now, looking at the radio transcripts from Walker's flight I see no mention of a sighting. Nor is there such a statement to be found anywhere in the pilot's postflight comments. It's possible that Walker didn't deem his sighting worth reporting until after hearing White's comments following the later flight.

In any case, the X-15 UFO sightings seem to have generated little scientific or professional interest among NASA scientists and engineers, and apparently NASA officials saw no reason not to release the photos.

NASA have lied before, so it wouldn't surprise me if they lied this time as well, which seems more likely. Do you believe this: White: >>While I was level I started noticing some things and I said, 'Now wait a minute, they must be inside the cockpit,' but they were outside the cockpit. It looked like perhaps it might have been residue or frost or very small little things going by.

Originally posted by Anunaki10

Originally posted by JimOberg
Sure they do. You gonna go up there and hold up a STOP sign?

I think any ice 'balls' travelling at 4,000 mph would melt down to water particles, before it reach my STOP sign

Maybe some few water particles would hit the STOP sign, and nothing more. Meteorites begin to melt at these hights after they enter Earth's atmosphere. Beside, the video show that there was no ice on the X-15 all the way from take off from the B-52.

Really? Damn those things called comets and such that travel much faster and are made of water without melting, lol. The melting is a product of friction. Do you know the friction the air produced at that altitude and at that speed well enough to make a statement, or are you just saying what you think you know based on your ground based existence and what you see in sci-fi shows?

You do know that meteorites melt at those heights (well, not quite, but close enough) because, even though the friction is VERY LOW, they are traveling VERY FAST (much faster than our space-planes), which makes the low friction environment act like sandpaper compared to our slow vehicles moving through the (close to) same upper atmosphere?

At this point I don't care is your UFO's are iceballs or not, but the shear lack of basic scientific understanding makes anything you say from this point forward laughable and IGNORANT. Seriously, did you fail science, or learn everything you know from Hollywood or some HistoryChannel show?

This is why this subject is sad, the ignorance of those that want to discuss it, and here is a GREAT example.

Originally posted by MainLineThis
Really? Damn those things called comets and such that travel much faster and are made of water without melting, lol. The melting is a product of friction. Do you know the friction the air produced at that altitude and at that speed well enough to make a statement, or are you just saying what you think you know based on your ground based existence and what you see in sci-fi shows?

You do know that meteorites melt at those heights (well, not quite, but close enough) because, even though the friction is VERY LOW, they are traveling VERY FAST (much faster than our space-planes), which makes the low friction environment act like sandpaper compared to our slow vehicles moving through the (close to) same upper atmosphere?

At this point I don't care is your UFO's are iceballs or not, but the shear lack of basic scientific understanding makes anything you say from this point forward laughable and IGNORANT. Seriously, did you fail science, or learn everything you know from Hollywood or some HistoryChannel show?

This is why this subject is sad, the ignorance of those that want to discuss it, and here is a GREAT example.

Nice try 'MainLineThis'. Where do you see i mentioned Hollywood? Do you know what History Channel is, and what kind of stuffs they broadcast? I tell you what, i think we can throw Mr. Oberg's Fake Ice Flake theory in the trash bin where it belong.

NASA's scientists don't know enough about the Mesosphere to make any conclusion about the conditions in these hights, yet.

Now, let's look at this again, shall we www.ipmsstockholm.org...

The X-15A-2 fared less well than its pilot. As a result of frictional heating during its speed record flight, the airframe suffered permanent damage. The X-15A-2 never flew again. Post flight analysis showed that the shock wave from the spike on the dummy ramjet caused unexpected heating on the leading edge of the ventral stabilizer. While Knight was setting a new speed record, the high heat burnt through the ventral stabilizer damaging the airframe and wiring. Approximately 25 seconds after the rocket engine shut down, damage to the ventral was so severe that the dummy ramjet was severed from the X-15. The ramjet was found later on the Edwards Air Force Base bombing range.
The X-15 program already was winding down at the time of the record speed flight, which was the 188th in the program. The X-15A-2 would require extensive refurbishment due to all the damage that had been caused by aerodynamic heating. It was therefore decided to retire the X-15A-2.

What does this tell you? Don't forget that this is FACT.

Any good scientist would say that the airframes of the X-15s were STILL TOO HOT DURING THEIR SPEED FLIGHTS FOR ANY ICE TO BE CREATED ON THEM, EVEN WHEN THEY STILL FLIED IN THE MESOSPHERE! And don't forget that the X-15s were often exposed of over 1,200 degree HEATS! I say the airframes were still TOO HOT when they flied in the Mesosphere.

Do you see ice on the airframes anywhere on the video footages of the X-15s? If you google X-15 Youtube, then you would probably see there were NO ICE ON THE AIRFRAMES ANY TIME DURING THESE FLIGHTS.

I tell you what, let's hope NASA will make an experiment with two X-15s flying side by side in these hights, and film each other. Would that experiment make any difference? I don't think so...

Originally posted by MainLineThis
You do know that meteorites melt at those heights (well, not quite, but close enough) because, even though the friction is VERY LOW, they are traveling VERY FAST (much faster than our space-planes), which makes the low friction environment act like sandpaper compared to our slow vehicles moving through the (close to) same upper atmosphere?

You are actually trying to say >>Meteorites melt at those heights or vaporize (well, THEY ACTUALLY DO THAT!)

The X-15 was flown on two separate types of flight profiles: speed and altitude. For altitude missions, the X-15 flew a steep trajectory to the edge of space. During speed runs, the vehicle remained at lower altitudes and was subjected to greater heating.

Cold fuel in the tanks caused ice to build up on the outside of the fuselage, particularly during the long climb to launch altitude beneath the wing of the B-52. Following launch, the X-15 was subjected to vibrations and high (but rapidly decreasing) dynamic pressures as it climbed to altitude. Ice flaked off the fuselage. If this occurred when the X-15 was above the sensible atmosphere then there was no wind resistance to drag the flakes rapidly away from the craft, so the ice flakes continued to drift along with the X-15 for a short while. Any remaining ice melted as the X-15 reentered the atmosphere and built up speed because friction-heating increased as the air became thicker at lower altitudes.

The so-called UFO sightings by X-15 pilots White and Walker were fairly insignificant. The post-flight debriefing transcripts bear this out. In deference to potential public interest, NASA Headquarters officials made an effort to supply the news media with images and as much information as was then known about the phenomenon.

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
The X-15 was flown on two separate types of flight profiles: speed and altitude. For altitude missions, the X-15 flew a steep trajectory to the edge of space. During speed runs, the vehicle remained at lower altitudes and was subjected to greater heating.

Cold fuel in the tanks caused ice to build up on the outside of the fuselage, particularly during the long climb to launch altitude beneath the wing of the B-52. Following launch, the X-15 was subjected to vibrations and high (but rapidly decreasing) dynamic pressures as it climbed to altitude. Ice flaked off the fuselage. If this occurred when the X-15 was above the sensible atmosphere then there was no wind resistance to drag the flakes rapidly away from the craft, so the ice flakes continued to drift along with the X-15 for a short while. Any remaining ice melted as the X-15 reentered the atmosphere and built up speed because friction-heating increased as the air became thicker at lower altitudes.

The so-called UFO sightings by X-15 pilots White and Walker were fairly insignificant. The post-flight debriefing transcripts bear this out. In deference to potential public interest, NASA Headquarters officials made an effort to supply the news media with images and as much information as was then known about the phenomenon.

'Shadowhawk' i'm afraid to tell you that this is based on a lie story. If you google X-15 Youtube and watch all these footages of their flights then you would probably be able see that there were no Ice Flaking off from the X-15's at any time during their flights. www.nasa.gov...

The underside of the X-15 is now building up a coating of frost on the outside of the liquid oxygen tank due to the intense cold of the liquid oxygen and a temperature of minus-300 degrees Fahrenheit.

As you can see it was only building up a thin layer of coating frost on the Underside (outside of liquid tank). This thin layer of ice would more likely vaporize off the underside when it flied at supersonic speed during climbing, and the pilot would not have a chance to even notice that. The video footages also prove that. And not only that. During the increasing supersonic speed during climb, the airframe is exposed of too much heat, which this one also prove tech.military.com...

Developed for the Air Force in the early 60's as a high altitude, high speed strategic reconnaissance platform, the SR-71 is the world's fastest and highest-flying production aircraft. Also known as "The Sled", the SR-71 is capable of flying at speeds in excess of 2200 mph (Mach 3.5+) and at altitudes beyond 85,000 feet and has the ability to fly over 2,000 miles without refueling. At operational altitude and speed friction between the air and airframe generates so much heat that the SR-71 will expand by as much as 11 inches.

And this is fact, and also actually prove that the airframe of the X-15 is exposed of too much heat, short after launch from the B-52, the airframe already began to heat up when it began to speed up to supersonic speed. So already there the thin layer of ice Underside would vaporize, left quickly far behind the X-15, and the pilot wouldn't even have noticed that.

So once again, the lie story lpresented by Mr. Oberg doesn't work.

How about you, don't you think that this alleged statement from White presented by NASA >>While I was level I started noticing some things and I said, 'Now wait a minute, they must be inside the cockpit,' but they were outside the cockpit. It looked like perhaps it might have been residue or frost or very small little things going by

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
The so-called UFO sightings by X-15 pilots White and Walker were fairly insignificant.

Not so fast 'Shadowhawk', cool down. We still need to see some original Top Secret NASA documents presented by a 'Whistleblower'. What we need is a 'Whistleblower' to come forward. www.youtube.com... From about 3:55 from this Part 5 presented by UFO Hunters 'Nasa Files', they explain that Joe Walker filmed 5 cylindrical objects from the X-15 on April, 1962, and that Joe Walker told a stunned audience that during the previous month he had filmed two disc-shaped objects, and that Walker's statement was a rare discussion by a NASA pilot regarding sightings of UFOs.

x15ufos.blogspot.com...

We have the 3.5 sec VHS tape of Joseph Walker's X-15 Plane Aft Camera video footage of two disc shaped AKA UFOs flying by Joseph Walker's X-15 Plane.

The tape was received from a women in Denver Colorado May 2009. She claims to be the daughter of a TV producer in Los Angeles who, during 1980, assisted in producing a TV program that aired on KTLA Channel 5 Titled 'UFOs'. At the end of this program was video play of these two disc shaped objects approximately 100 yards from the X-15 Plane. Very close up images of the fly by with earth atmosphere background. The two disc shaped objects appeared to be SPINNING and banking down toward lower atmosphere and away from the X-15 Plane. Color was METALLIC. Sun reflections were noticeable and in plane sight. The footage lasted 3.5 sec on edit board. Entry from left screen to right downward and fade to black by original editing producer. The fly by was shown four times, twice in slow motion for viewers.

We were asked to digitize this footage for a fee. Currently, this tape has been put into three media file forms and copied onto several flash drives. All media forms of this footage is privately owned by this women. We have copies under strict agreement not to distribute until the time is right.

The first Youtube video clip addressing his X-15 UFO incident was posted by us in 2009. Two frames flashed our website www.X15ufo.xxx with the time code posted in title line. Something interesting here with viewer stats. In one day, 300 approx view spiked to 1600 views most from Africa?

Since then our video posting has been DELETED! Two other Youtubers have posted video and as well as History Channel. In those video clips the footage is ABSENT!

We contact three sources for distribution to public advisement. Mr. Stanton T. Friedman, Colorado HQ M.U.F.O.N. Co-Founder John Schuessler, and S.E.T.I. .org website. Only Mr Friedman responded inquiring about distribution. Our reply is the same today, the owner of the footage and DV media has intentions to sell the property rights.

We are posting this blog to see if anyone else has seen this program in Los Angeles. If so, please contact us at x15ufo.net after Feb 15th 2011.

We are the media crew posting openly to online forums to others who may wish to add more information to this project.

Those disc shaped objects could have been man made (we don't know that) using different technology. They were only two and they were not illuminated in any way. We don't know why they were spinning. From the footage, visual was CLEAR and you could see the DETAILS on the objects. Size approximate 40-60 ft. in length. 20-30 ft. height.

A Youtube posting is out of the question as the previous test post proved Google people are CENSORING the topic. Hopefully this will reach someone before this blog gets DELETED!

Our recent attempts to contact media included: The Larry King Show, CNN, BBC, and several newspapers in major US cities. We have some interest in connecting with the conspiracy/UFO community. Coast To Coast AM was emailed recently.

You've dug out a wealth of claims that I hadn't seen before -- this is helpful for research, whatever the conclusions are. Thank you.

Thanks. I do what i can to contribute with something. Hopefully helpful.
My "Nasa faked Bob White's statements" accusations are based on my speculations, so i have no chance to know what White actually said.
These cases need further investigation, i think.