X-15 Rocket Plane - UFO Encounters on the Edge of Space

Did not come up in a search so I'll post.Very interesting video I have never heard of these cases.
It sounds impossible for an object that looks like a piece of paper could be traveling at those speeds very strange indeed.


www.youtube.com...




[edit on 15-8-2010 by flyingfish]

[edit on 15-8-2010 by flyingfish]

I thought the video was great, I recall that Major White or Joesph Walker was almost killed during the flights because the rocket plane was going so fast and structural stability was being seriously stressed... (or was that the X-1 plane with a different pilot?)

I'm surprised he was allowed to speak about this.

[edit on 15-8-2010 by star in a jar]

[edit on 15-8-2010 by star in a jar]

Thanks star! new I was doing something wrong.

Here is more info on the video.

This presentation focuses on a pair of reported UFO incidents that occurred in 1962 during the X-15 Rocket Plane Research Program. Both these encounters, one during an April, 1962 X-15 flight by NASA test pilot Joseph Walker and the other during a July 1962 flight by USAF test pilot Major Robert White, took place at extremely high altitudes, right on the fringe of space.

During Major White's high-altitude test flight, while at apogee he reported sighting and visually tracking an unidentified object "for a full five seconds before it moved away". Two frames of film from the X-15's rear-facing "wing and empennage" stop-motion 16mm camera appear to capture an object (or objects) that seem to match Major White's visual description of the UFO he saw.

Several months earlier, during NASA test pilot Joe Walker's X-15 high-altitude flight, cameras aboard captured what Walker later described as being "five or six disc-shaped or cylindrical objects" near his aircraft.

Source:www.youtube.com...


MOD EDIT:
Please read: Posting work written by others.

Going forward, if you post something that is not 100% your own writing or work you must use the QUOTE BOX TAG, post NO MORE THAN 15% of the original (or three paragraphs, whichever is least), and GIVE A LINK TO THE SOURCE MATERIAL. If the work you are posting is not on the internet, from a book for example, you MUST give a credit for that Book ( the title), its Author and Publisher.

[edit on August 15th 2010 by greeneyedleo]

Excellent presentation. It's a shame that NASA can't be open and honest anymore about the wonders of space. Wouldn't it be a gift to mankind to have access to the evidence and the viable explanations for our history what has been observed recently? They said that we paid for it, but the fiat currency has their name on it so I guess it doesn't count.

Hard to find info on this case but I did come across this.

George Filer had said that the object was greyish in colour and 30 to 40 feet away, but did not mention that the object was tumbling and looked like a piece of paper. [1] Oberg commented that “engineers postulated he was seeing ice flaking off the engine nozzle, super-cooled by the liquid oxygen propellant and broken loose by the firings of the X-15′s attitude control thrusters once it was in space. This explanation came to satisfy everybody in the X-15 program.

Source: magonia.haaan.com...

MOD EDIT:
Please read: Posting work written by others.

Going forward, if you post something that is not 100% your own writing or work you must use the QUOTE BOX TAG, post NO MORE THAN 15% of the original (or three paragraphs, whichever is least), and GIVE A LINK TO THE SOURCE MATERIAL. If the work you are posting is not on the internet, from a book for example, you MUST give a credit for that Book ( the title), its Author and Publisher.

[edit on August 15th 2010 by greeneyedleo]

A good read on the exchanges between Oberg and Rudiak.

Oberg contacted the Edwards AFB History Office, and Dr. Ray Puffer supplied him with the transcript of White’s postflight debrief The section of the December 6 posting dealing with the sighting is as follows:

“After engine shutdown I engaged angle of attack hold at 6 degrees alpha, and I seemed to hold this all right. It wasn’t long after I went through 220,000 that I disengaged angle of attack hold and just continued on over the top. It seemed like a hell of a long time to get over the top…. While I was level I started noticing some things and I said, ‘Now wait a minute they must be inside the cockpit,’ but they were outside the cockpit. It looked like perhaps it might have been residue or frost or very small little things going by. I was paying attention and focusing on what these things might have been, and one time a piece of something about the size of my hand, which looked like a piece of paper, went past just going along with the airplane. It was there, there was no question about it.”

After noting White’s comment that the paper-sized object seemed too big to be frost, Rudiak wrote, “So why did Oberg claim this was ice? White realised it couldn’t be ice. Furthermore, remember Oberg’s song and dance about this was ice formed from the rearward liquid oxygen tank or fuel lines? Obviously even if ice had survived and then later dislodged, it can’t move forward, one of the major objections to the ice theory from the beginning by the gullible UFO believers.”

Source: magonia.haaan.com...

Originally posted by flyingfish
After noting White’s comment that the paper-sized object seemed too big to be frost, Rudiak wrote, “So why did Oberg claim this was ice? White realised it couldn’t be ice. Furthermore, remember Oberg’s song and dance about this was ice formed from the rearward liquid oxygen tank or fuel lines? Obviously even if ice had survived and then later dislodged, it can’t move forward, one of the major objections to the ice theory from the beginning by the gullible UFO believers.”

Why can't it move forward? Only "obviously" NOT to somebody with his own 'song and dance', but no real knowledge of spaceflight.

All kinds of stuff was being flaked off or ejected from various vents and sheltered areas.

Don't forget this was in the same era as Glenn's "fireflies", and the degree to which manned spacecraft would be shedding all kinds of stuff once in space hadn't been appreciated. Later, of course, NASA got interested in keeping track of stuff seen outside the windows because it might be an indicator of a spacecraft malfunction -- as it most spectacularly was on Skylab-3.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Quote

"Why can't it move forward? Only "obviously" NOT to somebody with his own 'song and dance', but no real knowledge of spaceflight."

Unquote

And "obviously" it COULD move forward to someone that never say a UFO he couldn't explain away.

(Can you please explain the physics, inertia and all, on this case, for us of weak mind and wrong concepts Mr. Debunker? I don't claim it WAS a UFO, but you claim it WASN'T. Do you see your disadvantage in (always) taking that position?)

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Aliensun]
Sorry, partial quotes beat me everytime

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Aliensun]

I think the 50 thousand dollar question here is "did the object really move forward?" Look at white's transcript again.

" a piece of something about the size of my hand, which looked like a piece of paper, went past just going along with the airplane. It was there, there was no question about it.”

He says past not forward.It is possible that Rudiak is misinterpreting the information or had read something else. In any case, if it did move forward that would mean it was traveling faster than the vehicle a different subject indeed.

Here is the 1962 Universal Newsreel.

At least we all agree White was talking about small objects. Most UFO website accounts of this delete all reference to size, so the reader is left to imagine a 'UFO-sized' object nearby.

And "obviously" it COULD move forward to someone that never say a UFO he couldn't explain away.

(Can you please explain the physics, inertia and all, on this case, for us of weak mind and wrong concepts Mr. Debunker? I don't claim it WAS a UFO, but you claim it WASN'T. Do you see your disadvantage in (always) taking that position?)

I can't tell who this was from, or exactly what the fuss was, except the hostility and creative imagination. Or for that matter, who it was addressed to by name.

I rarely if ever claim something is NOT a 'UFO', just -- in the phenomena I have professional life experience in, that it doesn't HAVE to be a UFO.

We can see an airplane-looking object overhead that, conceivably, is a camouflaged UFO. Betty Hill saw them all the time. It's practically impossible to disprove.

The interesting question is, are there reports for which there is NO possible prosaic explanation?


The X-15 story, as it really happened, doesn't seem to me to be that sort.

But the myth of the X-15 story, as inaccurately and deceptively recounted in the world of UFOria, sure is supposed to look unexplainable.

delete duplicate post

[edit on 16-8-2010 by JimOberg]

I can't tell who this was from, or exactly what the fuss was, except the hostility and creative imagination. Or for that matter, who it was addressed to by name.

It came from transcripts of a thread .The thread began with a November 29, 2001 posting by James Oberg, which objected to a reference to the X-15 sighting in Filer’s Files 16 from April 1999.

Don Ledger made the initial reply to Oberg’s posting by saying, “Flakes of ice in the vacuum of space I can buy into but not within the atmosphere at supersonic speeds – and thirty to forty feet away tumbling in front of the pressure wave – which incidentally should be well aft of the X-15. That’s one strong piece of ice flake. NASA et al seem to be getting away with the ice flake explanation for a lot of sightings and to be honest-I think it’s getting a bit old.” [3] This issue, the dynamic pressure on the X-IS at the time of the sighting, became central to the subsequent debate the following day, November 30.

Good read. Source:magonia.haaan.com...

In the end, I get feeling that although no one could say "exactly" what it was White had seen. It seems that White's statements about the objects were highlighted by the Media to fluff up the historical flight.

Thanks -- as I recall the discussion was that even though the X-15 was in space, there still was some air drag, and the 'equivalent air speed' of the very thin but very fast air molecules should have shown some effect on the light particles... assuming they weren't in the vehicle's wind shadow.

reply to post by JimOberg


Um,This might be a stupid question but are you the James Oberg in these transcripts?

The X-15 UFO sightings were very much like John Glenn's "fireflies." Frost built up on the fuselage in the area of the liquid oxygen tank and then flaked off as the skin flexed. White's description of the objects certainly fits the frost theory.

It might also be important to examine how much excitement (or lack thereof) was generated by his sighting during and after the flight. I am looking at the original flight transcripts as write this (NASA 1 is the control room at the NASA Flight Research Center at Edwards AFB).


NASA 1: OK, looks like your'e about the peak and speed brakes out.

White: Roger. [pause] There's lots of things out there. Absolutely is! [pause] What's my angle of attack?

NASA 1: We don't have any better presentation than he does. We're coming back down through, approaching 285. Anticipate a position in correction turn to the right whenever you have the ability to do so.


White then acknowledges the transmission and makes a garbled comment about the view from maximum altitude. The remaining transmissions pertain to maneuvers and control setting for approach and landing.

There are no further comments on the mystery objects until the postflight debriefing. According to the transcript, White's very first comment at the debriefing was, "The only thing that was unusual was the FCS [flight control system] tripout and it was the DC circuit breaker on the MH [adaptive flight controls] system." The first several paragraphs detail White's comments on controllability of the vehicle during the climb to altitude.

White then offers "a few quick observations." From the NASA transcript:

White: "While I was level I started noticing some things and I said, 'Now wait a minute, they must be inside the cockpit,' but they were outside the cockpit. It looked like perhaps it might have been residue or frost or very small little things going by."

He then describes the object that looked like a piece of paper about the size of his hand, just off to the left side and level with the cockpit window. He describes several smaller objects on the right side that may have come from the nose of the vehicle.

At this point, White starts talking about his altitude and how it compared with his previous flight. There is no mention of frost or mysterious objects throughout the remaining five pages of transcript. There is only a detailed discussion of vehicle controllability and handling qualities through reentry and landing. There seemed to be no further interest among the pilots and project engineers at the debriefing.

NASA didn't exactly keep the incident a secret. Sometime between 23 July and 7 September 1962, the Public Affairs Office at NASA's Flight Research Center issued NASA News release 11-62 stating that NASA Officials had released photographs taken during White's flight, taken by a motion picture camera mounted in the aircraft's lower tail fin. The pictures showed "an undetermined sized object of a grey-white color tumbling slowly above and behind the X-15."

NASA technicians had correlated the frames of film showing the object had with other flight data and determined that the photos were taken as the X-15 climbed through 270,000 feet. They could not say for certain whether the object in the pictures was the same one reported by White.

The news release also noted Joe Walker's sighting at an altitude of 246,700 feet on 30 April 1962. According the to release, "After a detailed examination and study, NASA officials found these objects to be particles of ice flaking off the frosty sides of the research aircraft."

Now, looking at the radio transcripts from Walker's flight I see no mention of a sighting. Nor is there such a statement to be found anywhere in the pilot's postflight comments. It's possible that Walker didn't deem his sighting worth reporting until after hearing White's comments following the later flight.

In any case, the X-15 UFO sightings seem to have generated little scientific or professional interest among NASA scientists and engineers, and apparently NASA officials saw no reason not to release the photos.

Originally posted by flyingfish
reply to post by JimOberg

 

Um,This might be a stupid question but are you the James Oberg in these transcripts?

Nowhere near a stupid question. That's me. Still trying to encourage a method of separating the wheat from the chaff -- and since I think there IS 'signal' behind all the noise, it may be hard to believe, but that makes me sort of a 'UFO believer'.

Here's one reason why:
www.msnbc.msn.com...



[edit on 16-8-2010 by JimOberg]

reply to post by JimOberg

it may be hard to believe, but that makes me sort of a 'UFO believer'.

Now that's a statement I didn't expect to read .