It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Soldiers with PTSD dismissed, told they have 'personality disorder'

page: 1
2
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 06:57 PM
link   

Soldiers with PTSD dismissed, told they have 'personality disorder'


rawstory.com

At the height of the Iraq war, the Army routinely dismissed hundreds of soldiers for having a personality disorder when they were more likely suffering from the traumatic stresses of war, discharge data suggests.

Under pressure from Congress and the public, the Army later acknowledged the problem and drastically cut the number of soldiers given the designation. But advocates for veterans say an unknown number of troops still unfairly bear the stigma of a personality disorder, making them ineligible for military health care and other benefits.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 06:57 PM
link   
Another bureaucratic kick in the ass to struggle against, but this is actually good news in that they are still pushing to go back and keep reviewing to ensure people didn't get misdiagnosed in error.

Those discharged with symptoms of PTSD classified as a personality disorder (and therefor pre-existing condition) were not getting the help and the benefits they are entitled to. There is concern some still are not.

So this is a positive step. It looks like pressure from both the Congress and the public did some good in getting the Army to admit it, and it sounds like they're going to keep the pressure up to review more cases.

rawstory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 8/15/2010 by ~Lucidity]



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 07:47 PM
link   
Unfortunately the courntry will not be able to care for its vets upon their return either physically or psychologucally. Big surprise, huh? This time it might be even worse than post-Vietnam, because the country is in such rough fiscal shape on every level from the local to the federal. Budgets are being slashed left and right, cities towns and states are bankrupt, etc. Not exactly a good environment for returnees. I predict there will be at least several very very ugly incidents with returnees who did not get the assistance they needed re-integrating properly into society. It happens this way after every major war or combat operation and something tells me this time will be no different except maybe even worse.



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 08:22 PM
link   
This is so wrong!!! Am I wrong - don't they have a psychiatic test for those wanting to join the military? I thought they did and if so a pesonality disorder should have been diagnosed at that time and the person applying would not be applicable for the military or at least not combat. I am more familiar with what happened during Viet Nam so correct me if they no longer do this. To say that a soldier has a personality disorder after combat instead of PTS is just unacceptable! This is just another way for the Govt to not give adeqate benefits and medical care to those who gave their health and lives for our country. Ever been to a VA hospital lately - I have, many times as I do home nursing for veterans from time to time and that includes taking them to appointments. The hospital is dirty and degrading as the patients are made to sit in the halls half dressed without any attention for hours. Then when you do finally see a Dr. or get the test you were there for they see you for 5 mins, give you a prescription that takes another hour to get filled tell you they can't do anything else for you for a month. At least that is the case with the one I take patients to. I find myself going to the desk asking how much longer - also have to them know that they are still sitting in the hall are in pain. I was with a patient in the hall once and he started bleeding from kidneys - I could see it filling up in the bag. I immediately went for help. We waited and I went back to the desk 3 times (all this took 20 minutes before they came to get him.) Any ideas on what we can do appreciated, I am willing to help.

Sorry for the rant but this hits a real sore spot with me!



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 08:50 PM
link   
reply to post by crazydaisy
 


I think Basic Training is the testing!

I remember while in Basic Training waking up to screaming one night and everyone jumping out of the bunks and the lights going on. In the bay next to mine a young recruit awoke to find one of the other recruits staring into his face from like inches from him in the dark. It spooked him so bad he screamed to the top of his lungs. As for the crazy one he was running back and forth like a caged animal. He was gone the next day. That is how they test you I guess, or at least when I was there.

As for this situation, I am appalled to say the least, but then I know in my heart that the truth of the matter is that I am thankful to know that they are home now. They do need help, we all need help, and those that don't think they need help are fooling themselves; as the World's Governments have a sickness within them, a fever, and a psychosis beyond anyone could suspect (besides ATS LOL, I mean on the "suspecting" part!)

My real fear are the soldiers there, anywhere outside of the US, because when it gets to the point of "them vs. us, or should we say US vs us", then anyone still actively serving will be "left behind" or used to no end (well yes, one end, their deaths).

It only takes the Dollar to finally collapse when all benefits to all American's ceases to exist. Foodstamps, vouchers, SSI, or whatever pittance they have their hands out for. Personally I am thankful to have them home, near to the ones that Love them, and if they are alone I send my Love outward as I do the civilians and children in the same wake. God Bless them all.

This is so wrong on so many levels, but it certainly sheds more light on the type of Government we have now!



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 08:58 PM
link   
It's almost criminal that they did this. I don't blame you for ranting at all, crazydaisy. And with the suicide rates so high too, you'd think they'd want to put more effort into this, not try to sweep things under the rug. We have to support the people who are pursuing having these cases investigated and reversed and help keep a focus on it. If ranting is what it takes...whatever it takes.

I remember reading where some branches of the military, the Marines, for example, who have shorter tours on average too, were far better at dealing with issues like PTSD than others. Makes you wonder where the differences lie. This sounds like it was just the Army.



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 09:00 PM
link   
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Hmmmm.

While I can agree the "stigma" of being diagnosed with a personality disorder isn't the most fun thing to endure...it's not the worst thing to happen either.

The article doesn't state exactly what types of diagnosis are being given, but if they're one of the ones like...oh, say - Anti-Social Personality Disorder (wiki) I dare say I'm all for it.

In a nutshell:


"...a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood."


That's not the type of behavior I think we need in our military forces - especially in those troops assigned to civilian areas.

I know how some of those guys can get in the field, it ain't pretty and it's not what the United States Armed Forces is about.

Just because you signed up to perform a service and duty for your Country and those we are trying to help, doesn't give anyone the right to be a dick.


Any intel on exactly what kind of diagnoses and what statistical numbers for each type they're talking about here?


That data might help put things in a better perspective.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.





*edit - clarity



[edit on 8/15/10 by GENERAL EYES]



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 09:30 PM
link   
reply to post by GENERAL EYES
 


Here they are calling it "adjustment disorder."

Here is a page on VAWatchDog.org that has a tape they say is a doctor talking about how he's under pressure not to diagnose PTSD.



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 09:32 PM
link   
Great! We have 9 hour waits in emergency rooms because they are overrun with illegal aliens, but we call our soldiers who have suffered a certain name so that they are denied benefits. This government's moral compass is so f'ed up, it's not even funny.



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 09:42 PM
link   
If they had a personality disorder, why were they let into the military? Or, why didn't they document the personality disorder before the soldiers showed problems? It would make sense to do rigorous testing physically/psychologically before they entered combat, for the soldiers own safety and those around them.

But, as usual, institutions of all kinds, public schools even, don't want to take responsibility for any problems. Yet they teach us that we need to be responsible and all that jazz, hypocrites. At that point, people need to get what they rightfully deserve, and then some, just so the institutions will change if for no other reason.



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 09:50 PM
link   
I can't see how PTSD can be avoided under the circumstances.
It has been proven that when that Wrestler Chris Benoit died after murdering his family and then committing suicide, that the repeated concussions and massive stress, and maybe even steroids, and the combat drugs..are guaranteeing there is Going to be PTSD....

I know in Canada after WW ll we had a problem getting the Metis vets
their pensions ...of course there was nothing wrong with them, if there was something wrong with them, we would have to pay them, and that means we couldn't divert the money to some totally sleazy bureaucrats who were cashing their checks and keeping the money.



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 11:17 PM
link   
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


Thanks ~Lucidity, for those links - much appreciated.



What are the odds that the majority of cases are simply "adjustment disorders" though?

I'm all in the interest of providing for veterans with serious issues (one of my close friends has a PSTD diagnosis and lemmie tell ya, he can be a real handful in public sometimes and damn well rightfully deserves that diagnosis)...but we can't expect them to just hand out a PSTD diagnosis when it may not be as severe a case...I also have plenty of friends who have come back and been just fine after an adjustment period of their own.

(I also know a few rats who think they "deserve" more than whats rightfully coming to them, but I won't get into that debate right now aside from it makes me wonder why they signed up in the first place...what did they think the Military was? A field trip?)



Perhaps the "adjustment disorder" is enough to help get these guys off the frontlines to where they can recouperate and tend to their mental health before it actually becomes a more severe, and excessively permanant disability?


At least with this "adjustment disorder" diagnosis, these guys have the chance of recovery after a while, right?

If it turns out to be more long term and if it escalates over time, yeah - I don't see why they can't bump that baby up to a full blown PTSD diagnosis.

I know the VA is overloaded and it isn't easy for everyone having to deal with all that stuff, but jesus - why not let the genuinely severe cases take precedence?

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 16 2010 @ 10:18 AM
link   
Here's a related article from the Marine Corps Times.

‘Adjustment disorder’ discharges beg explanation

And just as a random finding, here's a Veteran's Today article about the IDF and PTSD.

Compared to their counterparts around the globe, IDF soldiers are less likely to develop Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) due to combat, according to a study published in the most recent edition of official military magazine BaMachaneh.

The study compared research into PTSD in IDF soldiers to similar research done in other countries. Less than five percent of the soldiers who fought in the Second Lebanon War and in Operation Cast Lead in Gaza showed signs of post-traumatic stress, researchers found.



posted on Aug, 16 2010 @ 10:51 AM
link   
This is NOT anything new. They did this to thousands of Viet Nam Vets also. It was called 'Bad Paper' back then and kept many of my generation from being considered for any government job including state and city jobs. Many companies have denied employment because of this 'Bad Paper'! They have NEVER corrected this situation. It still follows individuals to this day.

Zindo



posted on Aug, 16 2010 @ 12:22 PM
link   
reply to post by GENERAL EYES
 


That's all fine and dandy but if it is the right thing to do then why are they canceling their benefits?

Personally I think that's the real motive here. The Fed doesn't want to pay for our men at arms as soon as they are no longer needed.



posted on Aug, 16 2010 @ 12:30 PM
link   
reply to post by ZindoDoone
 

Yep. Bad paper. I guess the news and the good news here is that there are investigations going on. About 18 months ago, my dad, who just turned 83, got his case reviewed and got reclassified as suffering from PTSD. Without even asking. I thought that was odd at the time, but when I saw this it made me think it might be related. Again, it's a good thing they're reviewing the cases because it's going to matter a LOT to a lot of people in the future.



posted on Aug, 16 2010 @ 12:49 PM
link   
reply to post by DaMod
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

It's a difficult situation, I agree.

From where I'm sitting, money shouldn't ever be an issue when it comes to those in genuine need of benefits.

But the precedence to establish genuine need as oppossed to say - "automatic and guaranteed benefits" after service ensures that people don't just sign up for service and expect a cake walk of retirement once they return home.

Case in point - my own father, who enlisted at 18 and was a lifelong serviceman and worked himself into some pretty high level operations over the years, retired with full honors after being in more stressful situations than I can recall here...he doesn't sit back and relax, even though he's a civilian now. He works his tail off in contracting labor to make ends meet.

Is war and service stressful? Yes.
Does war change a man? Yes.

But I don't think they're going to justify unnessecary benefits to young men and women who think, for some reason, they no longer have to go through the same challanges the rest of the American Working Class do just because they signed up for elective service.

Sadly, there are those who think signing up is just easy money - and that sets a dangerous precedent not only on the financial end of matters (payouts) but also instills a false expectation and rewards those with weak characters.

I agree it's a complicated matter.

Now, I'm not implying that everyone who signs up merely expects to milk the system..but there are those who do, and I believe the system is designed to help prevent unnessecary allocations to those who would abuse said system for personal gain.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 16 2010 @ 12:52 PM
link   
reply to post by GENERAL EYES
 


Well the government giving you a bunch of money for no reason just because you signed up is wrong I agree.

But Vet benefits? You know like medical for example.... Canceled? Really you agree with that?



posted on Aug, 16 2010 @ 01:33 PM
link   
reply to post by DaMod
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I don't agree with such a thing on any level.

But sadly, I'm not able to witness firsthand the situation (from the point of the veteran as well as the administration behind these decisions) to make a fair and balanced assesment.


It's hard enough to make an accurate diagnosis in the facilities as they are established (you only see a patient in a controlled environment, as oppossed to first hand experience in their daily lives and how their condition manifests and diables them in the outside world).

There needs to be a massive overhaul in a lot of these programs.

At home visits and long term observations and assistance by licensed observers/assesors who are sympathetic to the situation would be a good first start.

Especially if it's on a volunteer basis. Too many of these problems revolve around an outdated and ineffectual misunderstanding and misappropriation of resources.

If more people qualified in the psych field would donate their time in a widescale volunteer effort...without expectation of financial reward or gain...we might see a more viable system.

"Money/Funding/Budgets" should NEVER take precedence over human beings.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 16 2010 @ 03:41 PM
link   
reply to post by GENERAL EYES
 


You really shouldn't use ole Dad as a "case in point" unless he has gone through repeated concussion strikes as our men and women go through today. Even being on the firing end of a weapon now will eventually lead to a brain that has gone through trauma. It is trauma that causes the psychological aspects of PTSD, and is considered more than someone not pulling their own weight.

Funny how this administration pushed our faces right into a big ole pile of ObamaCare, with the incentive that there would be no "pre-existing condition" clause. If they can do that for us, but not for them, then you know it is more about our pocket books that they want to dig into as they string their own purses so tight when it comes to our children at War for their profit.

Even today on the News, I see that Senator John Coryn is screaming to make sure that no Military Member is excluded in the voting process; seems to me that his priorities are out of touch if he has any knowledge of this crime of "denial to access of care" by our Military/Administration. I can certainly see how they can rig the elections come November now, once they force the States to become compliant with a 45 day absentee vote they will have more time to figure a new strategy.

Military Voting Rights at Risk--Fox News Reports

At any rate, it really did sound like you felt ole Dad had to swallow the hard pill of Life and that our Men and Women who are in service today should too. Perhaps I misunderstood. I know what you mean about the value of the past, the problem is the lack of opportunity coupled with a real medical issue. The Service these Men and Women provided should be coupled with "Automatic and Guaranteed Benefits" without question!



new topics

top topics


active topics

 
2
<<   2 >>

log in

join