Your 2 cents on the Ground zero Mosque yea or nay and why ?

reply to post by Brother Stormhammer


I do understand your point. Yes, they have the legal right. But IS it "right"? Is it morally right?

Let me ask you... Who decides your morals? You do. Do other people decide what's right and wrong for you? No, you do.

So, even though you have decided that this action of building the mosque is not "right", it's not really for you to decide the morals (what's right and wrong) of someone else. Because, be it an individual or an organization, if they have a legal right to do something, only they have the power of decision of whether it is right for them to do it.

[edit on 8/16/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Just to clarify my position on this, I have no problem with Muslims, Islam or a Mosque being built in NYC.

I do think that this is going to become a focal point for those who do have serious issues with the above. And yes, I agree BH the MSM is responsible for a lot of that.

Regardless, I simply do not want to see any harm come to anyone because this mosque is built where it is... To me it just isn't worth that risk.

My gut feeling is that this is being done intentionally to cause problems, by whom and why I have no idea.

No matter what I think about this, it will make no difference. And ultimately only time will tell if this will go well, or very badly.

Originally posted by Byrd
I think that its position 2 blocks away from the site is not a problem. There's Catholic church right at the edge of the property. I would encourage a Jewish synagogue as well or a Wiccan grove or any other religion's house of worship in that same area.

According to Google maps, there are two synagogues within two blocks of the WTC site, as well as the Catholic church I think you mean (at the corner of the block where the new community center will be), an Episcopal chapel (right across the street), and hopefully someday the rebuilt St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox church (which was crushed when the South Tower fell on it).

A Wiccan grove would be an interesting idea, though I'm not sure what the requirements are. There's not a lot of trees down there



On-topic:

Officially, I abstain. I live five miles away, it's not part of my community, and I think that decisions about what belongs in a community should be made by that community. The Park51/Cordoba House project has the support of the neighborhood that it will be in, I think that should be enough.

Unofficially, I say yea. The more I look into the issue, the more convinced I am that the project leaders have planned and are moving forward on this project in a good faith attempt to build something that will provide valuable services to the neighborhood and provide an example of moderate, anti-violence Islam.

I say nay.

I'm curious though, are there any Japanese restaurants near Pearl Harbor?

i say yes, for if we would ask to build a christian temple in mecca, to some of us it is the same, so let fear not guide you, for the act of a few does not reflect the hole.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by hadriana

The fact is it can be perceived as a victory monument.

I have heard this before, and the thing that popped into my mind was "so can all the Christian churches on Native American reservations (which were forced on them and they were brutalized so that their religion was almost destroyed.)"

There are other examples of this... once you get that sort of mindset, then the Christian churches in nonChristian nations can be seen as victory monuments as well. It's kind of creepy to me and I'm sure the Christian pastors might disagree.

It can absolutely be perceived that way. It might be creepy, but one of the main draws to the US for the Christians was so that they could convert souls.

It's what draws them to Africa and such today. They DO see converting the indigenous and changing their way of life as a Victory. They say it is for God.

reply to post by Lostinthedarkness


Is this the most recent propaganda Rant at FOX ?


The Mosque ? That isn't anywhere near ground zero per se, but half a mile away ?

What is the issue here ? Other than creating one based upon Hate ?

This is the same mindset that paints swastikas on jewish houses of worship called Synagogues.

I cannot believe what people find the time to get all worked up about which is absolutely nothing.

On one hand we are all about our Constitutional Rights, Stormhammer makes a point about how he proudly wears his firearm, on his belt, and his Right to do so.
OK, that is fine.

But now when it comes to a certain group of people that we have been instructed to vilify and hate, and happened to be associated with the 19 Saudi Terrorists, they as a group, now don't deserve those same Constitutional rights ?

I mean Adolph Hitler was a Catholic, do we punish All Catholics as a result ?

It sounds like more Red,White and Blue American Hypocrisy.

Originally posted by LuckyStrike
I say nay.

I'm curious though, are there any Japanese restaurants near Pearl Harbor?

Yes:

The red arrow points to the USS Arizona Memorial:

reply to post by americandingbat

I abstained officially as well, but would like to agree with and adopt your unofficial statement. Also would like to add that it is, of course, their as Americans to build this community center (forgot to say that in my post).

Originally posted by LuckyStrike
I say nay.

I'm curious though, are there any Japanese restaurants near Pearl Harbor?

Actually, quite a few. Tadashi, for example, on Kamehameha Highway, overlooks the harbor. And Gyoyaku, down the road, is really good.

By the way, there is at least one McDonalds in Hiroshima, and two in Nagasaki. Dresden, BRD, has three.

If this is true, it is a very wise move...

www.haaretz.com...

But several people familiar with the debate among New York's Islamic activists now claim that the leaders are convinced abandoning the site is preferable to unleashing a wave of bitterness towards Muslims.

They also hope the move will be seen as a show of sensitivity to families of the victims of the 9/11 attacks, and to the American public generally.

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


If it's true it won't be seen as being sensitive to anyone. There will be a lot of, "WE WON! WE WON!" :shk:

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
If this is true, it is a very wise move...

You think backing down, selling out, giving up is a wise move??? Man.... That's pretty sad.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
If this is true, it is a very wise move...

You think backing down, selling out, giving up is a wise move??? Man.... That's pretty sad.

No I think it is a wise move because it may protect peaceful, innocent Muslims from a new wave of anger, bitterness and hate that many of you believe cannot, or does not exist in this country, and especially in NYC and America in general. It also can display a level of sensitivity toward the victims and families of the 9/11 attacks... A level of sensitivity the US military never even considered when bombing Muslim villages following those attacks.

It stands (if true) as an amazingly powerful example of peace and tolerance and speaks alone and well for the American Muslim community.

Sell out?

I don't think so.... But to each their own I suppose.

I say yes, of course, having in mind that americans are more aware of their pride than of their good sense. A mosque would be the same as a church, as a sinagogue, as a bloody zigurat even, the problem is it's called a mosque. Would it be a soukh, would that be okay? You find provocation in everything around you, your moral behavior is at a minimum low and yet you continue to be blind because you don't want to see. How many McDonalds aren't there in Arabia? KFC'S? TACO BELL? STARBUCKS? One McDonalds over there is as painful as hell, and yet you built it there. Grow up.

reply to post by Lostinthedarkness


One of the post said it all, Muslims themselves know that the effort to build the Mosque at ground zero is a provocation (it is like pouring salt in an open festering wound that will not heal).

Methinks we should follow the Money all the way to the top and see who is spearheading that effort and then hear the truth about who, what when, where, why etc,.

I have no problem with Muslims opening Mosques in the U.S., my problem is that they are being held responsible for the souls that were lost in the destruction of the Twin towers. Until that matter is resolved, respect for the dead is demanded.

I just want to say this thread makes me sad. Not the OP's intent or content in question but in the responses. To see, here on ATS of all places, people so vociferously cast a vote AGAINST the 1st amendment makes me so sad. Not just one, not just two, but many people speaking out in favor of doing away with the 1st amendment simply out of spite. Not just speaking but enthusiastically and then relishing in it. To think any of you really wish to start tearing America apart and tossing out the best parts of it just to spite people that did nothing to anyone is bad. Hell, even if you had a good reason, it is a bad idea and there is not even that.

Bye bye constitution. Guess you were out of date anyway. We were braver back then. Now we are all scared of "moslems" and need to do away with you. What rights shall we do away with next? I think 2 comes after 1, right? Better do away with them guns. A "moslem" might git one.

I say yea. Because of freedom of religion and the fact that it's near ground zero, among other reasons, including you first have to believe in the official story of 9/11 to have an issue in the first place. That in and of itself surprises me. I've also been curious what is an acceptable distance from ground zero. A few more blocks? Several blocks? A mile? Outside of Manhattan? What distance?

Originally posted by americandingbat

Originally posted by Byrd
I think that its position 2 blocks away from the site is not a problem. There's Catholic church right at the edge of the property. I would encourage a Jewish synagogue as well or a Wiccan grove or any other religion's house of worship in that same area.

According to Google maps, there are two synagogues within two blocks of the WTC site, as well as the Catholic church I think you mean (at the corner of the block where the new community center will be), an Episcopal chapel (right across the street), and hopefully someday the rebuilt St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox church (which was crushed when the South Tower fell on it).

A Wiccan grove would be an interesting idea, though I'm not sure what the requirements are. There's not a lot of trees down there

 

On-topic:

Officially, I abstain. I live five miles away, it's not part of my community, and I think that decisions about what belongs in a community should be made by that community. The Park51/Cordoba House project has the support of the neighborhood that it will be in, I think that should be enough.

Unofficially, I say yea. The more I look into the issue, the more convinced I am that the project leaders have planned and are moving forward on this project in a good faith attempt to build something that will provide valuable services to the neighborhood and provide an example of moderate, anti-violence Islam.

"Officially, I abstain. I live five miles away, it's not part of my community"
What kind of wiccan are you? it is a global village no? five miles is within walking distance!

After reading these news items

www.foxnews.com...

www.nytimes.com...

The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America accused New York officials on Tuesday of turning their backs on the reconstruction of the only church destroyed in the Sept. 11 attacks, while the controversial mosque near Ground Zero moves forward.

The tiny St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church is once again at the forefront of the myriad disputes that plague the rebuilding effort at ground zero. The fate of the church, a narrow whitewashed building that was crushed in the attack on the World Trade Center, was supposed to have been settled eight months ago, with a tentative agreement in which the church would swap its land for a grander church building on a larger parcel nearby, with a $20 million subsidy from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. This would have allowed work to begin at the south end of the site.

I reverse my staunch support of the Mosque .
This new Mosque got the okay fast tracked while Greek Orthodox church is tied up in red tape and considered a dead deal by the port authority .

This is political favoritism !

This is a POLITICAL GAME THEY ARE PLAYING ON US !

My constitutional law and order support for this Mosque is officially rescinded.


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Flames for myself over the undue support .

If the Greek Church is rebuilt or has a go ahead then I will support the Mosque again .