"Kill the unbelievers!!!" Separation in the religious

Separating the Religious is EXACTLY what the powers that be WANT us to be doing!! religious fighting brings weakness to all sides, a focus away from really important things, anxiety, etc, etc.

Obama's support of a mosque in New York has brought out a lot of Christians saying HORRIBLE things about Islam. I'm against this type of judgment and hate in SOOO many ways; I'd like to present a comparison...


* Both religions say only their own believers get God's/Allah's reward
* Both religions have conquered populations to advance their beliefs
* Both believe in life after earthly death
* Both have significant parts that are ignored by current believers
* Both religions say the woman must stay a virgin until married

Both Holy books are extremely cryptic and can be translated numerous ways (although the Qur'an is more recognized as a divine work and even English translations are not recognized as appropriate)

Islam
unbelievers should be burned with hot water and publically chastised (not practiced)

Christianity
A wife who is not a virgin must be killed by stoning in public (not practiced)

Christianity has 624 commandments including things like don't eat shelfish (not recognized)

Islam
A theif's hand should be marked - which could mean burned, cut off, a tattoo, jail time (variable)


We do not actually define our religion from what's in a book, otherwise people would adhere to their respective books without fail, reading them cover to cover. Religion comes from what FEELS right to oneself. Most people take on the religion of a parent and follow it casually because that's what brings the least suffering.

To the people making all kinds of crazy statements about Islam. Compare some of these to Christianity.
Some stories in the Bible involve daughters having sex with their father, a father being forced to choose to sacrifice his son on a fire, entire populations being killed, children tricking their father into giving away a blessing, God favoring one twin over the other even before birth. Christians DO NOT follow these stories any more than Muslims adhere to killing non believers.

If religion comes from a personal choice please try to recognize that each and every person on the planet has the choice to be kind, peaceful, to love, to care, to share, to accept - these are HUMAN traits and happen regardless if you follow your religion, someone elses religion, or no religion at all.

Without the selfishness and judgment of religion we would probably have a unified planet of kindness and acceptance, excelling beyond anything we have ever conceived of!

Accept each person as a person

[edit on 15-8-2010 by Thermo Klein]

I'm not sure that I'm getting your point.

Are you saying that there is a cabal of some sort that have engaged in a conspiracy to emphasize the differences between religions and de-emphasize the similarities?

If so, who is behind it?


Eric

reply to post by EricD


good question with a big complex answer...

Back in te day when religions were created they were made to bring power and money to the churches, while keeping the people subservient and controllable. This is the main idea of religion.

The second "conspiracy" part is that separation of the masses, to this day, provides the same anxious, controlled, preoccupied masses.

Religion creates a separation simply by the means of judgment and belief but there are people, media owners, Council on Foreign Relations, etc, who will push this agenda to further bring people apart.

[edit on 15-8-2010 by Thermo Klein]

It goes way beyond religion though. The powers that be seek to control everyone...not everyone else believes in religion. In what other ways could they seek to control?? I'd like to hear your thoughts

organized religion are just a tool for control, money ...

any text from any religious book can be interpret in infinite ways, so, it doesnt make sense that these books are considered sacred or ultimate truths

[edit on 15/8/10 by Faiol]

reply to post by The Endtime Warrior


I agree it goes way beyond religion. The reason I put this up though is because I happen to know a lot of very ignorant Christians on facebook who think some ludicrous things about Islam. I wrote it for facebook but liked how it turned out so figured I'd share it

KORAN commands to kill infidels:

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71

Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74

Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76

But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89

Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65

It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67

Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111

Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....

As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15

Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60

Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5

Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29

Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9

The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51

Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)

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KORAN promises of houris in heaven:

Single-minded slaves of Allah... will be honored in the Gardens of delight, on couches facing one another; A cup from a gushing spring is brought round for them, white, delicious to the drinkers, wherein there is no headache nor are they made mad thereby. And with them are those of modest gaze, with lovely eyes, pure as they were hidden eggs. - Surah 37:40-49

Lo, for those who ward off evil is a happy journey's end, Gardens of Eden, whereof the gates are opened for the, wherein, reclining, they call for plenteous fruit and cool drink therein. And with them are those of modest gaze, companions. This it is that ye are promised for the Day of Reckoning. - 38:50-54

Lo! Those who kept their duty will be in a place secure, amid gardens and water-springs, attired in silk and silk embroidery, facing one another.... And we shall wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes. They call therein for every fruit in safety. They taste not death therein, save the first death. And He hath saved them from the doom of hell, a bounty from thy Lord. That is the supreme triumph. - 44:51-57

Lo! Those who kept their duty dwell in gardens and delight... reclining on ranged couches. And we wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes... and we provide them with fruit and meat such as they desire.... - 52:17-22

...Reclining upon couches lined with silk brocade, the fruit of both the gardens near to hand.... Therein are those of modest gaze, whom neither man nor jinni will have touched before them.... - 55:54-56

Those are they who will be brought nigh, in gardens of delight... reclining therein face to face. There wait on them immortal youths... and fair ones with wide, lovely eyes, like unto hidden pearls, reward for what they used to do.... Lo! We have created them a creation, and made them virgins, lovers, friends. - 56:11-37
(Different translation) Companions with beautiful, big and lustrous eyes... virgin-pure and undefiled.

--------

Koran "sharia" punishments:

As for the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah. - Surah 5:38

[edit on 15-8-2010 by Violater1]

Love is a religion that few people subscribe to. Every other religion should be based on this fundamental religion. And if they act according to that principal religion, we won't have this kinda problem in the first place. *sigh*

reply to post by Faiol


Did you know there are 38,000 different denominations of Christianity!!? Unbelievable! (from a Christian source, Google it if ur curious)

Originally posted by Violater1
Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....

This is a prime example.... the word translated into English is HARDNESS not harshness, and has to do with being strong in your beliefs.

*

The obvious point of my thread is that people like you quote the Qur'an without recognizing that MUSLIMS DO NOT ACT THIS WAY!! Anymore than Christians have sex with their fathers and murder opposing societies.

Originally posted by Thermo Klein
Christianity
A wife who is not a virgin must be killed by stoning in public (not practiced)
[edit on 15-8-2010 by Thermo Klein]

I'll ignore the Islam part - but where are you getting this from in Christianity? I suppose it sounds good in trying to make your point but it seems you are trying to take commandments from the Old Testament and apply those to Christianity which shows a lack of understanding as to what Christianity is and what "laws" apply.

I could be wrong but the only 'religion' that calls for killing of unbelievers is muslim.

I could be wrong but the only 'religion' that calls for killing of unbelievers is muslim.

Didn't mean to double post; I don't know how it happened ?



[edit on 15-8-2010 by AmericanDaughter]

reply to post by AmericanDaughter


you are wrong

just look the history of the church

besides ...

anyone can interpret that to kill is good from the bible ... as I said, you can interpret whatever you want

thats the same in relation to islam, some people there interpret they want to kill others

Originally posted by ararisq

Originally posted by Thermo Klein
Christianity
A wife who is not a virgin must be killed by stoning in public (not practiced)
[edit on 15-8-2010 by Thermo Klein]

I'll ignore the Islam part - but where are you getting this from in Christianity? I suppose it sounds good in trying to make your point but it seems you are trying to take commandments from the Old Testament and apply those to Christianity which shows a lack of understanding as to what Christianity is and what "laws" apply.

It's a synopsis of Deut 22:13-21 or so

The Bible can't even be argued if its the word "of" God or not... much less which part we should listen to now or not. If the Old Testament shouldn't be followed why even bother to have it out there. With 38,000 denominations obviously it's not a clear answer.

[edit on 15-8-2010 by Thermo Klein]

reply to post by Thermo Klein


Ah facebook. I would imagine you could find a lot of ignorant people on there. only because of the style....isn't it like quick comments and stuff? far too often i see these religion threads with talk of divide and control, and almost all of the time it focuses on christianity and islam. with good reason, because these are the dominant forces in religion, however where does that leave the rest of the world? oh ya i forgot science and technology

Originally posted by Thermo Klein
It's a synopsis of Deut 22:13-21 or so

Yes, that is the Old Testament. To apply everything in the Old Testament by ignoring the New Testament isn't Christianity - thats Judaism and Islam. Its called the "Old" Testament for a reason - because there is a newer one. You should read through that before making these types of comments but I suppose you just copied it off a website anyway.

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I believe you are saying:

Various religions were created by their founders with the intent of controlling the masses and separating them from those that might be like minded and natural allies (I mean allies in a larger than military sense).

These efforts created a perpetual motion machine of control that is still running today.

In addition, organizations such as the CFR actively promote this separation and suppress discussions of theological unity.

If that is sort of accurate, then that's cool and I look forward to seeing where you take the discussion.

I don't agree, as I'm a gordian knot sort of guy and it seems like an ecclesiastical rube goldberg device, but I wouldn't be on this site if I didn't have a penchant for conspiracies.

Eric

Here's Deuteronomy 22:20-21 in King James version:

20But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:

21Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

www.biblegateway.com...

reply to post by EricD


Fair enuf synopsis

I don't plan on taking this into a huge long discussion, just making a point that we can get along if we look at the person instead of the religion.