The Anti-Muslim Threads Are Giving ATS a Bad Name

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Carry on and keep letting God, King and Country think for you!

I'm an atheist who finds patriotism an embarrassment. I think you're barking at the wrong mailman, Fido. I simply found your response to be way out in left field.

So as I said before, carry on. You're rolling. I don't want to stop you.

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

You have been lured off topic, even though your great joke was on topic.

Better watch out, next you will find yourself be preached to about violating the T&C.

On topic: What might give ATS a bad name is; people who contribute a lot of content may be given preferential treatment. Not anti-Muslim threads.

Actually the joke was off topic. It might have been topical with the proper editorial.

If that second part is true, you might want to get busy creating a lot of content, or of course those who prefer to just complain and whine alot while pretending they are contributing something of substance can carry on and do that too.

That isn't content though, that's just a lot of complaining and whining.

There are some more important lessons to be learned here other than how to promote blanket assumptions and prejudices more effectively believe it or not.

Everyone looses in confrontation, and the truth is that I highly respect true Chrisitans.

Those would be the Pennsylvania Dutch Amish who actually live every word of it no excuses no exception as it's put to them in the Bible.

Judge not lest you be judged and they don't.

Let he is without sin cast the first stone, they cast none.

Turn the other cheek, and they do.

Vengence is mine said the Lord and they are deterimined to make sure that is his pervue alone.

Ask and thou shall recieve, and they do and give to those that do ask.

Failing at something isn't as noble as actually succeeding at something.

Maybe that band of violent righteous angels has yet to descend because there aren't enough true Christians to set up that nirvana for.

Or mabye they don't exist at all and IT'S JUST ROME'S WAY OF PLAYING DIVIDE AND CONQUER.

Either way the world is going around in violent self destructive and repressive circles over all this nonsense.

Everyone looses in confrontation, there are no winners, and maybe that's why Blessed are the Peace Makers is so important.

I am advocating for peace and dialouge, you can slander that all day long, but what does that really say about the people who are?



[edit on 19/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Carry on and keep letting God, King and Country think for you!

I'm an atheist who finds patriotism an embarrassment. I think you're barking at the wrong mailman, Fido. I simply found your response to be way out in left field.

So as I said before, carry on. You're rolling. I don't want to stop you.

You might want to take ownership of and better qualify your statements, or do we have to wait for the postman to ring twice and pick out the message through the contradictions?

Anyway, carry on with the American and christians are bad stuff. Looks like I stood in the way of your freight train.

Can't have it both ways my friend.

I am promoting peace, by encouraging those who want war to take responsibility for their own actions, thoughts and desires.

What are you promoting?

Can you be specific and provide a consistent message to illustrate the conflicting say nothing, mean nothing messages?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
You might want to take ownership of and better qualify your statements, or do we have to wait for the postman to ring twice and pick out the message through the contradictions?

Likewise. You may wish to provide an appropriate and topical response to someone's post.

Can't have it both ways my friend.

I am promoting peace, by encouraging those who want war to take responsibility for their own actions, thoughts and desires.

What are you promoting?

I'm only promoting good postmanship and free speech. Likewise, you can't have it both ways either: promoting peace by creating divisive arguments pointed squarely at America and christians doesn't look like promoting peace. Not that I care anyway. I'm not your problem unless you're choosing to make it that way.

Can you be specific and provide a consistent message to illustrate the conflicting say nothing, mean nothing messages?

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Well now we know what you imagine and purport to be doing.

Only took a half a dozen zig zagging posts to get to that too!

That's a great way to engage in a productive debate.

So riddle me this, if you take exception to people asking Christians to examine their actions, and Americans to examine their actions, then why do you take no exception to, and actively engage in criticism of other religions and nations?

Can you explain your critical thinking process there as an 'athiest' and a 'human' being?





[edit on 19/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
So riddle me this, if you take exception to people asking Christians to examine their actions, and Americans to examine their actions, then why do you take no exception to, and actively engage in criticism of other religions and nations?

Can you explain your critical thinking process there as an 'athiest' and a 'human' being?

I have no problem with you asking christians or americans to examine their actions whatsoever. I saw it more as finger pointing than promotion of peace though. And again I simply thought your original response to me was off topic.

See? No problem here. By all means, please carry on.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


I disagree for the truth is abandoned land mines are one of the leading killers and maimers of third world children.

There is absolutely nothing funny about a child missing limbs or sent to an early grave because their playground was once the playground of those intent on the most extreme forms of violence and conquest.

That is not limited to those fighting thinly veiled religious crusades, but dozens of different regional factions around the world, looking to dominate through violence.

The five permanent mebers to the UN Security Council are the source for the majority of millions of landmines that litter the third world.

Understanding who profits off this violence politically, economically, religiously/politically/economically is to me a bit more pressing than one's own individual desire to see and make humor out of such tragedies.

So you opened the door to that, with your joke, but perhaps you thought this was the BTS Humor Forum?

You brought it up, you made it topical.

Thanks.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Failing at something isn't as noble as actually succeeding at something.

Interesting assumption, although I have to respectfully disagree.

It reminds me of John Brown. Here was a man who had failed at everything he had tried to accomplish in life. He had failed in over a dozen different businesses and never was able to establish a successful one.

Yet he kept on trying, he never lost his determination, even while he was lying bleeding in the courtroom, even as he stood on the gallows.......Now that's noble.

He even failed to see the words of his prophesies come to pass. Yet despite all of his failures, he remains as one of Americas true heroes.

There is nothing that is not noble about failure, as long as one can get back up, brush off the dust, and try again. But unfortunately, we live in a society where success is rewarded and failure in good endeavors is frowned upon.

If the United Sates fails to stop the relentless efforts by those who are attempting to gradually persuade others in order to allow Sharia Law to gain a foothold in this country, then John Brown died for nothing.

There is nothing anti-Muslim about it. This is just another label that we are being given in order to silence our opposition.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

I disagree for the truth is abandoned land mines are one of the leading killers and maimers of third world children.

And by that logic if I presented the old "why did the chicken cross the road" joke I suppose you would bring up the thousands of people killed each year by auto-pedestrian accidents and also the cruel conditions in chicken houses and that by god none of this is funny.

Yeah, that's a helluva point you got there. Hey, I have a ladder if you want to keep digging that hole for yourself. Don't be afraid to ask.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


And per usual you were invited yesterday to cite legitimate examples of Sharia law making inroads in the United States.

You have failed to do that.

So once again you are missing the critical portion of ATS debate my friend.

You have made an assertion you want others to consider valid, yet provided absolutely NO FACTS on what would make that assertion valid.

Without facts it's fear mongering.

Without sources and examples to cite, real sources, it's not fact.

The truth is that John Brown was a violent zealot who met an early grave as once again "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword".

So once again a Christian failing at Christianity right up until the end, but trying to evoke the all mighty in that violent quest who has already told Christians vengeance is his and to turn the other cheek.

So many of these arguments on both sides of the coin rely on differing interpretations of what God wants, and people willing to abandon their own texts and edicts to force their opinions of what God wants.

Can you actually explain the fact that Christianity as it is set up in the Bible will through violence in the book of revelations set up a one world Christian government with Jesus Christ and God as the President of the world?

That many so called Christians actually can't wait for the day when all this violence occurs and rids the world of those that don't subscribe the Christian religion.

Can you even reconcile how Jews and Christians can be allied when Christians believe Jesus Christ will lead this charge, and Jews have created a special place in Hell for him as a blasphemer?

Because those two things are irreconcilable what we simply have is a typical Middle Eastern Mindset of the enemy of my enemy (Muslims) is my friend.

All three branches of Abraham’s religion see the situation ending similarly in an Armageddon apocalyptical outcome but all three branches see it turning out as favoring them.

It really is nothing but a classic two sides against the middle divide and conquer strategy that has nothing to do with God or spirituality but political manipulation of the masses through a series of religions that keeps them superstitious and divided and unable to intelligently think and reason for them selves.

All are equally responsible all are equally involved; all are seeking the same thing total domination of all others.

So do keep in mind, once again, you are promoting this nonsense of Sharia law is some how going to take over all the partiers in South Beach and trust me, that’s not going to happen.

Especially since you can’t provide one source for that, let alone address the deeper and more problematic questions of the circular maze so many prefer to just sit in and hate and distrust and long to dominate and kill one another in.

There are no innocents here friend.

Live by the sword; die by the sword, classic example John Brown.

Not a Christian, because Christians are supposed to turn the other cheek and only allow the Lord to take vengeance.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

I disagree for the truth is abandoned land mines are one of the leading killers and maimers of third world children.

And by that logic if I presented the old "why did the chicken cross the road" joke I suppose you would bring up the thousands of people killed each year by auto-pedestrian accidents and also the cruel conditions in chicken houses and that by god none of this is funny.

Yeah, that's a helluva point you got there. Hey, I have a ladder if you want to keep digging that hole for yourself. Don't be afraid to ask.

Actually I am not in a hole, you are, which you might want to just scamper quitely out of by this point.

Auto pedestrian accidents are no joking matter either by the way, but you didn't post a chicken cross the road joke.

You came into to post an inflamatory joke at a critical point in a thread where circumstances had almost led to civil and quality discussion and debate to do all the things that don't lead to civil and quality discussion and debate.

Congradulations you are semi-succeeding at derailing the thread through those attempts.

What has made me a hero to many on ATS is Proto will debate his position in the face of overwhelming opposition to it.

Proto is wise enough to know why some will go out of their way to try to derail threads and attack him.

It's because Proto is a very effective debator and asks a lot of probing questions that people can't actually answer.

So they attack me instead.

When this happens, I know in fact I am winning, and renting space in people's heads, and they are at a loss to formulate an intelligent debate.

Need a hand up out of that hole?

Come on up the air is fine.

Click here for more information.

Hello there.

Let's please return to the topic of the thread without personally attacking fellow members. If there is an issue with a post, please feel free to hit alert.

Thank you.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
And per usual you were invited yesterday to cite legitimate examples of Sharia law making inroads in the United States.

You have failed to do that.

The New Jersey courts have succumbed to Sharia Law.

A Muslim husband raped his wife, but the New Jersey judge saw no sexual assault because - are you ready for this? - Islam forbids wives to refuse sex to their husbands.

politicalpistachio.blogspot.com...

[edit on 19-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


Here is the problem with that source; it's a blog, that does not list the source of the actual occurrence.

The following constitutes a source for this:

A Police Report detailing the incident (available online usually through most cities to anyone as a matter of public record provide you have a name of the arrestee)

A Docket number for the court case (available online through most jurisdictions provided you have a defendant’s name)

THE DEFENDANTS NAME

THE NAME OF THE RULING JUDGE

THE DATE THIS OCCURED

THE JURISdICTION IT OCCURED

THE ACTUAL COURT RULING

All of these would be available if this in fact occurred.

Not only is all this information absent in the blog you linked to, but there source was another blog that was even more religious in nature, that did not list the information either.

So without the actual names, events, court documents, arrest reports, location, date, and ruling...IN OTHER WORDS THE FACTS this is just a fictional story based on nothing but here say and innuendo.

So once again, can you actually cite a legitimate example with FACTS not story and opinion of an actual occurrence of Sharia Law being used in the United States?

ATS is a critical environment and your source doesn't even meet minimal standards of journalistic information or integridy.



[edit on 19/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Here are just a few more of the links to sources that I have found on the subject of Sharia Law making inroads into the United States.

But I suppose that you will summarily dismiss them all as irrelevant or non reputable sources as you always do when someone dares voice their concerns about Muslims or the mosque issue.

If you want more, just Google Sharia Law in the United States. There are 452,000 search results.

Happy reading!

creepingsharia.wordpress.com...

www.newshounds.us...

schulzkelaw.com...

www.jihadwatch.org...

www.cfr.org...

www.doveworld.org...

infidelsarecool.com...

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Oklahoma state legislators concerned with the recent attempts by Muslims to legitimize Sharia Law in their state have proposed a question to the voters.

Oklahoma sure doesn't seem like the kind of place where the Islamic law code known as Sharia might take over. With just 30,000 Muslims out a population of nearly 3.7 million, and a whole wheat, corn-fed reputation that inspired the Rodgers and Hammerstein musical, Oklahoma is about as far from Saudi Arabia -- one Muslim country that follows a strict version of Sharia -- as you can get.

But legislators in the Sooner State figure you can never be too careful. Hence their push to put a question on November's ballot that would ask voters to make state courts rely on federal and state laws when deciding cases and forbid the courts from using international law or Sharia law when making rulings.

"Sharia law coming to the U.S. is a scary concept," state Sen. Anthony Sykes, a Republican who co-authored one proposal, dubbed the "Save Our State" amendment, told The Edmond Sun. "Hopefully the passage of this constitutional amendment will prevent it in Oklahoma."

www.politicsdaily.com...

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


My friend, I have no particular interest in visiting a lot of blogs for what is very simple information to provide.

A arrest report detailing a crime

A court docket number for a trial

A Defendants name

A Judges name

A copy of an official Judges ruling using Sharia Law.

What people are purporting is occuring in their imaginations in a blog is not a source.

The actual details and documents of this occuring are a source.

Someone claiming something has happened without one relevant fact that can be independently verified is not a source, it is simply someone claiming something happened with no source to back it up.

Blogs are not sources, and if the blog articles list the sources, then go straight to the real source, copy a bit of the external source, from an actual source, and a link to go along with it.

So no I am not interested in improving the visitor count to some of the most inflamatory blogs on the planet, I am interested in an ATS member providing high quality FACTUAL information right here on ATS, where they are making their claims.

Thanks.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


Congradulations you have come up with a source of ABSOLUTELY nothing occuring in Oklahoma other than the Legislature wanting to craft a law that nothing along these lines will over occur in Oklahoma.

So in reality not only is that not an example of Sharia law being used, but backs up my conention that Americans are never going to permit Sharia law to be used.

So once again no that's not an example of Sharia law being used, but an example of how Sharia law will never be used.

Slow down, take a deep breath, and realize it's the quality of your information that is going to make or break your arguments not the speed and quantity of your information.

I have an open mind to all things, but it requires real facts to consider, take your time, and find some real facts, not blogs, stories without sources, and opinions.

You are claiming that Muslims are making inroads in getting Americans to adopt Sharia Law and have failed to provide a real example of this with real facts.

Find a real example, find some real facts that make it more than just someone telling a story on a blog.

Prove your arguments with high quality information.

If you can't prove them, then just say, "I am concerned that Sharia law might one day come into effect" and then tell us how you feel a small minority of the population is going to impose it on the vast majority of the population that would reject it?

Otherwise it really is just fear mongering and pandering to people's fears and stereotypes.

Not what ATS is about.

Thanks.