The Anti-Muslim Threads Are Giving ATS a Bad Name

reply to post by mikelee


Okay. What do you propose we do? Close all the mosques? Put all followers of Islam in pens? Deport all Muslims? What's your solution?

What would make you happy?

Originally posted by mikelee
So those who hate violence in the form of terrorism are somehow "incorrect" while the soft minded types wish to tip toe around the difficult decisions and would rather ride along naively while the terrorists are setting up on you.

There is about 2 million radical islam types in the world per state department sources. Independant organizations who track terrorists and their activitys have already documented these also. Once we start to have VBEDs and IEDs at Wal Mart, Malls and other places then perhaps all of this "islam ain't bad" brainwash spew may strike a few in the head once & for all.

I have a pretty map too, mine is more colorful, and it encompasses a lot more territory, and it illustrates a picture that will shed a lot of light on ‘this’ situation.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/46a8f3eaea40.png[/atsimg]

Cause and effect go hand in hand. Whether it’s radical elements of Islam, the American Militia movement, Conspiracy Theorists, or any other ‘subversive’ and ‘dissatisfied’ element of society, it took some cause to first result in that effect.

Here is the cause of all of the above things, American Gunboat Diplomacy, and an American Military Hegemony over the world.

America has attained through its Gunboat Diplomacy and military might a true COMMAND position that it does use to DICTATE too the world.

American Satellites, Drones and Military Units ring the world, and keep a close and often deadly eye on everything.

Naturally a lot of people abroad as well in America reject the ‘Might makes right concept’ and sadly many who support it and actually think might makes right, are doing so the same way they would support a Football or Basketball Team, like it’s a sport and a game, and they picked the winning team, and that makes them just so ‘proud’ and so ‘right’.

Now as you look at the American Military’s map of the world, and the names that they have chosen take a look at the Middle East and note how they have dubbed it CENTRAL COMMAND, central of course meaning most important, the base, the center, from which everything else revolves around.

So CENTRAL to US Policy is Military Hegemony in the Middle East which is so expensive to maintain and so bankrupting and so divisive how do you think they intend to get YOU to support the BANKRUPTING of our NATION and the NON DEMOCRATIC WAY in which we DICTATE to the rest of the WORLD?

By making sure you pretty much hate everyone who lives in the Middle East and getting you to believe Might Makes Right solves problems instead of breeding resentment and frustration that leads to violence.

People need to wake up to the fact that the U.S. Military has become a MERCENARY ARMY for the International Corporations looking to control the world’s most vital resources so EVERYONE ON THE PLANET can be controlled through those resources.

People need to wake up and stop misdirecting and transferring the frustrations of not leading a very quality life because a handful of corporations are using the U.S. Government to control all resources, keep wages low, and provide a progressive lessening of quality of life that truly makes just about all of us angry in some way.

Misapplying that anger by transferring it to conveniently provided scapegoats that you then actually want the US Government to become even more intrusive and controlling to rectify at your further expense is about as stupid as stupid does.

Wake up people. No one is going to win this insane game except the Powers that Be who are in fact going to end up dictating everything you can do and can’t do under the sun, once they finish amalgamating and consolidating their control of all the world’s vital resources required for you to even live.

Strength, true strength comes from diversity, and it is that diversity they are trying to convince you is a threat to you and to convince you it’s a threat to others as well. The only real threat diversity is, is too the Powers that Be, that do want to end up with total control of everything and total control of you.

STOP HELPING THEM.

reply to post by Timetraveller

You cannot build a church/temple in Saudi arabia ? Ask them why they would say there religions are false and hence they should not be allowed to flourish. What are the moderates doing there if they exist at all .
Now ask them why they are wanting to build mosques in foreign countries, they would say it is because Islam is the true religion and hence it must be spread.

I come from India where about 1/5th of the population is muslim. There are riots every few years due to fundamentalists in muslim and hindu religions.
But the point is muslims who are a minority in India have a separate civil code granted by the country's constitution. which means the state cannot enforce civil laws enacted for the rest of the population (made of hindus, christians, buddhists, jains etc) on muslims. They have their laws for marriage, inheritance etc derived from Quran and would follow that only.
The state can intervene and reform other religious traditions. But it does not dare to do it on muslims. You guess the reason for it. Why are they so different ?

Thank you for posting I have spent the morning reading post from people who live the experience.

But the point is muslims who are a minority in India have a separate civil code granted by the country's constitution. which means the state cannot enforce civil laws enacted for the rest of the population (made of hindus, christians, buddhists, jains etc) on muslims.

Yes why?

Fear?

Or have they become the government?


[edit on 093131p://bMonday2010 by Stormdancer777]

[edit on 093131p://bMonday2010 by Stormdancer777]

I refuse to claim the title of bigot or racist,

I have studied many of the worlds religions,the most ancient, paganism and Hinduism and Buddhism, and shamanism, and practiced a few other then Christianity, would a bigot do that?

Racist?

Islam is not a race for one.

I am mixed, and have never, ever in my life judged someone for the color of their skin.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I have a question, if all roads lead to Rome where does Islam stand in this scenario?

OH it's all Americas fault, I see.



[edit on 093131p://bMonday2010 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by Stormdancer777

But the point is muslims who are a minority in India have a separate civil code granted by the country's constitution. which means the state cannot enforce civil laws enacted for the rest of the population (made of hindus, christians, buddhists, jains etc) on muslims.

And what have you read about the wars that India and Pakistan have fought that resulted in Muslim parts of Pakistan (Kashmir) being incorporated into India?

Have you stopped to think that perhaps these laws are aimed at making that region of Muslims governable by Hindus?

Or are we just flopping around the surface flailing for anything to be afraid about?

Taken out of context, with out the history and background anything can be made to appear as almost anything.

If you don't know the history that trapsired when these laws were enacted you in fact have no idea why the laws were enacted and for what reason.

They were though enacted for a reason. A reason the Indian State considered valid and important enough to do so, based on their much BROADER understanding of the situation locally.





[edit on 16/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


That is a quote from another poster that lives in India,

Why don't you check out some of the posters personal experiences.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

That is a quote from another poster that lives in India,

Why don't you check out some of the posters personal experiences.

Yes I know you love looking for people's BLOGS and taking OPINION of a few or one and trying to PEDDLE it as fact.

WHY DON'T YOU READ SOME HISTORY?

And get some real context for a change to go along with the scare mongering.

By the way talking to someone on the Internet that claims to be in India and Indian is not the same as talking to an Indian in India.

You have no idea in fact who you talked to or what their political motivations were if any, or where they were actually talking to you from.

Or what their own level of knowledge and history and local politics is.

Thanks.



[edit on 16/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Regardless of the past,

What some sects of Islam have become are their own personally choices to follow that way of life,

There needs to be reform and some are working on that.

Unless you are a women who is afraid to speak out against the abuses.



90% of women suffer from domestic violence.

[edit on 103131p://bMonday2010 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Really regardless of the past, have you forgotten this whole controversy is over the past.

Over 9-11, that so many are offended now ten years later that a Muslim Iman with long standing ties to the U.S. State Department and the FBI is expanding his facilities in a neighborhood he has operated in for 30 years by building a Community Center, where you could, yes you could go to 'Save' the Muslim women you are supposedly so concerned about.

What a load of hypocritical hyberbole.

You can focus in on narrow portions of the past, to justify once again an out of context conclusion, but you can't consider the past to get the real answers that drive events.

How important is the past?

Obviously very important because this would pretty much be a non-issue if it weren't for the past of 9-11.

So rather than look to the past of 9-11 and say hey, wait, they still haven't charged or convicted anyone in a Court of Law, how do I know who really did it.

You just fell right into their trap of blaming it all on the Muslims all over again and made it as fresh as it happened yesterday.

What does the past have to do with events today?

EVERYTHING.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

90% of women suffer from domestic violence.

[edit on 103131p://bMonday2010 by Stormdancer777]

Source for that 90%? And just to clarify...did you mean 90% of all Muslim women?

Also, you might be interested in these articles and some of the links within them if you want to help.

WikiLeaks and War Crimes and the Afghan Women

Afghan Women Fear Their Fate Amid Taliban Negotiations

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I love that Stan Deyo map! I would give that chart about as much accuracy as I would an article posted in The Onion. It was designed with one purpose in mind, as a marketing tool to sell more "survival" books written by Stan and Holly Deyo.
Definite shysters.

By the way, if anyone is wondering why Stan Deyo's name is familiar, he is the guy who believes this:



As to the original topic, there are definitely sects of Islam that are radicalized and dangerous. However the fear, paranoia and bigotry expressed in western culture (and by some of the members of this site), only serves in socially ostracizing and radicalizing the remaining moderate Muslims.

It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. . .

[edit on 8/16/2010 by clay2 baraka]

Originally posted by ~Lucidity

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

90% of women suffer from domestic violence.

[edit on 103131p://bMonday2010 by Stormdancer777]

Source for that 90%? And just to clarify...did you mean 90% of all Muslim women?

Also, you might be interested in these articles and some of the links within them if you want to help.

WikiLeaks and War Crimes and the Afghan Women


Afghan Women Fear Their Fate Amid Taliban Negotiations

If you bothered to look at Stormdancers video you would not have asked her that question. It's in a video of CURRENT times, its information is not from the PAST.

Take a look at it please. Your answer is at 1:35.....the source for that 90% is in it.


Thank you
sl


[edit on 16-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

reply to post by clay2 baraka

As to the original topic, there are definitely sects of Islam that are radicalized and dangerous. However the fear, paranoia and bigotry expressed in western culture (and by some of the members of this site), only serves in socially ostracizing and radicalizing the remaining moderate Muslims.

What most people don’t realize is that the number one recruiting method of espionage and counter intelligence agencies is to isolate people through fear.

The more afraid you become the more reluctant you then become to seek out independent answers and opinions.

You become radicalized yourself through that fear and isolation, and most don’t actually realize it.

As they become more radical as a result of that fear and isolation, fewer and fewer rational people want to engage with the person in conversation or dialogue, isolating the person even further.

Worse is people who are normally friends and a good source of more rounded perspective and research then become your ‘enemy’ because they won’t agree with you and breath life into your fears and validate them and you.

You become more isolated and pretty soon the only people who are talking to you, are the people promoting that fear to isolate you and manipulate you towards a political agenda.

We have seen some select posters claim to be tear-stricken again and again, to be staying up all night plying the Internet for sources that confirm their fears.

Yet any Google keyword search will yield a wide variety of results from the polar opposites on an issue to the more moderate in betweens. So in reality they are simply discarding anything that does not validate their fears and opinions and as a result suffering from crippled epistemology by then relying on too few sources, and too many biased sources to form their perspective.

It’s pretty sad, and sadder still because it’s the people they consider their friends and protectors who are causing their isolation and fears, not the actual ‘enemy’ they have been conditioned to fear in debilitating, emotionally damaging, and self detrimental ways.

Once so isolated the desperation to validate those fears and themselves ratchets up to the point of psychosis and is really a tragic thing.

NO FEAR.

Say no to people pandering fear. Say no to emotional manipulation. Look at all the relevant information and do it fairly and honestly.

Eventually these things do become self fulfilling prophecies because the people who are actually working the hardest to bring it about are the people who have convinced themselves it is real and needs to be stopped pro-actively and preemptively, where they then become the actual thing they are afraid of.

Amazing!

Even more so that people on ATS who have the widest variety of sources and opinions available to them, allow themselves to be isolated and manipulated through fear, into becoming a pawn in someone else’s political agenda.


[edit on 16/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by sweetliberty

If you bothered to look at Stormdancers video you would not have asked her that question. It's in a video of CURRENT times, its information is not from the PAST.

Take a look at it please. Your answer is at 1:35.....the source for that 90% is in it.


Thank you
sl

TY for watching the video, SL, yes the 90% number is mentioned in the video.

However no amount of evidence reported or posted on this forum is enough for some, I don't know what it will take.

Peace, out.



[edit on 113131p://bMonday2010 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Hey how about this, rather than a source of someone saying something, what is the name of the PUBLISHED REPORT, what is a link to the actual PUBLISHED REPORT, who conducted the study, who funded them, when was it conducted.

In other words how about some REAL information?

Or does that get in the way.

"Peace and Trust can win the day...despite all your ruing"

Led Zeppelin - The Immigrant Song



This is what intelligent people rely on YouTube for, music and entertainment.

What's the name of the report, link it.

Let me rephrase it. Did you find and read the source report? I would be interested in reading it, and I can't seem to find it.

I thought you may have since you were quoting figures FROM the video. I like to know exactly WHERE the figures come from before I repeat them is all. The closest thing I've found so far was a UNIFEM report from 2006, but I don't see the 90% number.

But if you don't have it, I'll just keep looking.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Thanks. I handled it too. Guess some people don't actually know what "source" means. That might explain more than we know.

I'll just keep looking.

By the way, that "source" to be totally valid should probably correlate pre-invasion and post-invasion numbers.

Here's a RAWA report that speaks of a 90% depression rate for Afghan women. www.rawa.org...

The report mentions the UN tangentially.

[edit on 8/16/2010 by ~Lucidity]

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Thanks. I handled it too. Guess some people don't actually know what "source" means. That might explain more than we know.

I'll just keep looking.

By the way, that "source" to be totally valid should probably correlate pre-invasion and post-invasion numbers.

Here's a RAWA report that speaks of a 90% depression rate for Afghan women. www.rawa.org...

The report mentions the UN tangentially.

[edit on 8/16/2010 by ~Lucidity]

Once again context becomes so important, who shot the YouTube video in question, where and how did they come about not just the information presented in it, but the women who participated in it.

Was any compensation offered to get that participation, in a nation where the average anual income is 14.00 dollars, even a free lunch or some canned food would prompt some people to say and purport or agree to anything.

Real information does have a source, and demographics and data are easy to manipulate too, for all kinds of reason.

I find it highly doubtful that 90% of Muslim women consider themselves abused, and in truth what is the standard for abuse. Some western women might consider abuse choosing to wear a burka. Or not having a local Avon Lady.

So all these things become relevant.

When I think of abuse, I think of some timmid terrified battered ghost of a human being in pain and missery, but what did the authors of the report consider to be abuse?

Are they excluding these very pertinent and relevant facts to get me to allow my imagination to draw a false conclusion.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Well I traced the "90% abuse" number to a few jihad watch-type blogs so far. UN reports all say things like 90% illiteracy, and 90% in some county in Liberia experienced violence but not domestic. No numbers on 90% domestic abuse for all Afghan women that I can find. That would be a very high number indeed.

Did you see my thread on the CIA proposing using Afghan women as propaganda in Europe? (And please note that when I say that it in NO way belittles the real horrors that do exist there, particularly since the US bombed then back to the darker ages again and destroyed so much of the hard fought progress they had made.)

[edit on 8/16/2010 by ~Lucidity]