Why the west should fear muslims

Maybe it would be a good idea to change the title of this thread to: "Why the west should fear immigrant Muslims" because that is after all what the OP is talking about.

Muslims living in a strict Islamic country have every right to hate Christianity or secular thinking just as much as we hate their justice system based on religion.

So it's the immigrants that pose the problem here. Like that poor excuse of a politician Geert Wilders says:" Stop the tsunami of Islam".

The OP continues to name an examples of assault/rapes from her/his capital Oslo where the numbers show evidently that it is the Muslim immigrant responsible for this.

Norwegian women dress to provocative. And they must take the blame for being raped by Muslim men.

WTF........

Is it the entire immigrated Muslim community raping provocatively dressed Norwegian women? Children and grandparents all go out at night hunting for innocent natives...

Nope, it's those angry young men!! Period!!!

We (western society) have our own angry young men as well. If they turn to their religion for counseling they will be handed solutions for their inner struggle conform the moral code of our society.

If angry young Muslim men turn to their religion for counseling it is all up to the interpretation of the Imam as to what kind of solutions are handed over.

How great is it if you are angry at society and you find a group that confirms this anger and actually says you are right!! You are all of a sudden "justified" in you actions...

I hope I don't have to explain the fragile mental state of confused young people and the ease with which they are manipulated....

This is not a Muslim integration problem, this is a problem of unguided teenagers. let's be honest here, native teenagers also lack any form of norms and values nowadays.

If you want to solve this problem maybe it would be a good idea to address

- the guidance of young adults by religious organizations.
- the overall lack of norms and values with all kids.

I don't know, the whole "Muslim" community can not be so uniform that we can isolate them as the cause for any particular problem.

Peace




[edit on 26-8-2010 by operation mindcrime]

Originally posted by intrepid
Do you know what "Jihad" really means? Jihad is the "struggle" of ones self against his own sinful nature. It's been bastardized by extremists and the unthinking into what most now think it's about a war of some physical type. That's not what jihad means.

In the Koran, 97% of references to Jihad are to violent Jihad.

Have a look yourself. The verses are listed by this page.

www.answering-islam.org...

Originally posted by babloyi

Certainly, Muhammad probably killed many people during the battles that occurred. I didn't deny this. That these battles occurred, I don't deny either. As I have mentioned before,

But again you provide a huge list (which I again suspect is copy-pasted from somewhere). Am I expected to go through each of them to show how the conclusion is wrong?

I have some sympathy for you if you don't recognise the episodes I listed. It means that you just don't know and are not deliberatley spreading missinformation.

By the way, if it is copy and paste, then surely it would be a simple matter to google search it?

reply to post by ollncasino

Yes, you are very good at editing. The other place online I have found it so far is some sort of US army forum where..I dunno...everyone is participating in mutual back-patting and justification.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by ollncasino

 

Can you list your sources then please? I would like to see where you are getting your sources from. Use a trusted Islamic site please.

My source is the eternal word of Allah (may he be praised) - the Koran.

Don't be friends with disbelievers. They are your (and Allah's) enemy. 60:1

Disbelievers are perverted. They are the enemy, confounded by Allah. 63:4

Don't make friends with Allah's enemies. For those who do so, Allah has prepared a dreadful doom. 58:14-15

Muslims that make friends with disbelievers will face a doom prepared for them by Allah. 5:80

YOUR SOURCE IS RIGHT HERE

skepticsannotatedbible.com...

Don't be friends with disbelievers. They are your (and Allah's) enemy. 60:1

Disbelievers are perverted. They are the enemy, confounded by Allah. 63:4

Don't make friends with Allah's enemies. For those who do so, Allah has prepared a dreadful doom. 58:14-15

Muslims that make friends with disbelievers will face a doom prepared for them by Allah. 5:80

starting at #473...verbatim and in order...
skepticsannotatedbible.com...


A whole trove of stuff for you to plagiarize from...I'd have to sort through all of your trash to track it down, but I suspect in the end your arguments are uniquely "unoriginal"

Plagiarism is frowned upon on ATS by the way.

And you plagerized this from the same list I linked to above...

reply to post by ollncasino

Originally posted by maybereal11
A whole trove of stuff for you to plagiarize from...I'd have to sort through all of your trash to track it down, but I suspect in the end your arguments are uniquely "unoriginal"

Plagiarism is frowned upon on ATS by the way.

I plagiarised the Koran?

I suggest you contact a Mod immediately.

By the way, of course the core of my arguments are unoriginal. They are based on the Koran, the hadith and other ancient Muslim writings.

[edit on 26-8-2010 by ollncasino]

[edit on 26-8-2010 by ollncasino]

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by maybereal11
A whole trove of stuff for you to plagiarize from...I'd have to sort through all of your trash to track it down, but I suspect in the end your arguments are uniquely "unoriginal"

Plagiarism is frowned upon on ATS by the way.

I plagiarised the Koran?

You didn't quote the Koran. You quoted a ridiculous list of "intrepretations" of the Koran by a religious bashing website. WORD FOR WORD.

[edit on 26-8-2010 by maybereal11]

What you Plagerized

Originally posted by ollncasino
Don't be friends with disbelievers. They are your (and Allah's) enemy. 60:1

What the Quran says

[60:1] O you who believe, you shall not befriend My enemies and your enemies, extending love and friendship to them, even though they have disbelieved in the truth that has come to you. They persecute the messenger, and you, just because you believe in GOD, your Lord. If you mobilize to struggle in My cause, seeking My blessings, how can you secretly love them? I am fully aware of everything you conceal, and everything you declare. Those among you who do this have indeed strayed off the right path.

What you Plagurized..

Originally posted by ollncasino
Disbelievers are perverted. They are the enemy, confounded by Allah. 63:4

What the Quran says...

[63:4] When you see them, you may be impressed by their looks. And when they speak, you may listen to their eloquence. They are like standing logs. They think that every call is intended against them. These are the real enemies; beware of them. GOD condemns them; they have deviated.

What the Bible says

2 Corinthians 6:14-18
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.”

Originally posted by maybereal11
What the Bible says

2 Corinthians 6:14-18
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.”

I can discuss the intolerance in the Old Testament with you if you wish.

I dislike intolerance whereever I find it - whether the 7% of American Muslims who support suicide bombing, intolerance in the Koran or intolerance in the Bible

Originally posted by ollncasino

Have a look yourself. The verses are listed by this page.

www.answering-islam.org...

Did you know that there are several websites specifically dedicated to sorting out the false translations and BS listed on the link you provided?

www.submission.org...
This page is solely concerned with exposing the false claims of contradiction in the Quran, as found on various anti-Quranic sites (e.g. the site 'Answering Islam').

www.mostmerciful.com...
It is no secret that www.answering-islam.org is a major Christian Website that questions Islam and anything connected with it.
There are several indepth extensive rebuttals from the Muslim side to their articles.

newsgroups.derkeiler.com...
Bogus website Answering-Islam.org DEBUNKED

Fake & Anti Islamic Sites
muslim1st.com...

Is the website answering-islam.org owned and created by non-Muslims?
answers.yahoo.com...


et cetera ...et cetera

You might want to vet where you are getting you Quran translations before you post them as "Gospel".

Originally posted by maybereal11
Did you know that there are several websites specifically dedicated to sorting out the false translations and BS listed on the link you provided?

Besides the fact that I have not cited any of the purported 'fake' sites, did you actually read your links?

Apparently not...

(1) Your first webpage, is part of

www.submission.org...

A page I have previously cited when quoting the Koran!!

So one of your sites debunking 'fake' sites is one of my sources for the Koran!

(2) Your second link is a discussion about the interpretation of the Koran in Arabic and about the alleged number of different versions of the Koran in Arabic, not English translations of it!

www.mostmerciful.com...

(3) Your third link refers to debunking the website

www.ExamineTheTruth.com

I have never referred to such a website. When I tried to enter it, my PC told me it was a "Reported Attack Page!" so I didn't go in.

(4) Your fourth link refers to fake and anti-Islamic websites.

muslim1st.com...

At no point have I referred to any of the purported fake sites. Nonetheless, following the links is fascinating.

Its first purported ant-Islamic site - www.islam-exposed.org... - doesn't even exist.

Its fifth purported ant-Islamic site - www.aboutislam.com... - links to a webpage about Arabic perfume.

Its sixth purported ant-Islamic site www.allahassurance.com... - doesn't even exist

(5) Your fifth and last link is Yahoo! Answers.

Are you having a laugh? Yahoo! Answers!!!!

answers.yahoo.com...

Originally posted by maybereal11
et cetera ...et cetera

You might want to vet where you are getting you Quran translations before you post them as "Gospel".

et cetera ...et cetera, indeed.

Perhaps you should read your own links first before trying to pass them off as credible sources?





[edit on 27-8-2010 by ollncasino]

Originally posted by ollncasino
Don't be friends with disbelievers. They are your (and Allah's) enemy. 60:1

What the Quran says

Originally posted by maybereal11
[60:1] O you who believe, you shall not befriend My enemies and your enemies, extending love and friendship to them, even though they have disbelieved in the truth that has come to you. They persecute the messenger, and you, just because you believe in GOD, your Lord. If you mobilize to struggle in My cause, seeking My blessings, how can you secretly love them? I am fully aware of everything you conceal, and everything you declare. Those among you who do this have indeed strayed off the right path.

Actually, there is no mystery here or any duplicity.

The webpage

skepticsannotatedbible.com...

provides both the full verses of the Koran

skepticsannotatedbible.com...

and abridged summaries of them

skepticsannotatedbible.com...

The abridged versions link directly back to the full verses

Originally posted by ollncasino
What you Plagurized..

But you didn't provide a link to your quote from the Koran either!

Pot meet kettle!

Either we are both guilty of plagiarism or neither of us are. Can you plagiarize the Koran?

Actually, legally and academically this is a settled question. No.

Holy books such as the Bible and the Koran are considered so well know by everyone, that they are considered 'common' knowledge and don't need referenced.


[edit on 27-8-2010 by ollncasino]

What has any of the above few posts to do with the growing concern that mass immigration, particularly of those who are ideologically opposed to Western values, has increased violent crime in the West?

As far as I can tell, open honest discourse about a socio-economic issue that involves people of different faith/ideological groups has again been subverted and has thus degenerated into a puerile slanging match!

Is it really so difficult to deal in empirical stats and anecdotal evidence and leave the polarised arguements aside?

You cannot judge Islam by Quran only.
You need to read Hadiths very carefully.

Here is a good website from a ex muslim from Iran:

www.faithfreedom.org...

[edit on 27-8-2010 by under_topsecret]

reply to post by teapot


People who have clear, intelligent points against Islam and why it is a bad thing, are being attacked by the Muslims. And why not, the Muslims don't see anything wrong with their scriptures, we do. Of course there is going to be disagreement.

Teapot, stop trying to tell people how to debate, this is an open thread discussing why the West should fear Muslims and Islam, and we are having our say about why we think it is, we expect people to TRY and claim that it isn't.

Say why you think it isn't, but certainly back it up with evidence or a rational, reasoned argument.

who said that western women are like dog food?



dressed the way they do and no problem if they are raped?


some iman in australia?


how bout ripping the head scarfs off their women?

make it a game, 10pts each!

Originally posted by ollncasino

But you didn't provide a link to your quote from the Koran either!

Pot meet kettle!


[edit on 27-8-2010 by ollncasino]

Now you are just making me repeat myself. It would be easier if you would honestly address my posts.

Originally posted by maybereal11

You didn't quote the Koran. You quoted a ridiculous list of "intrepretations" of the Koran by a religious bashing website. WORD FOR WORD.

[edit on 26-8-2010 by maybereal11]

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by maybereal11
Did you know that there are several websites specifically dedicated to sorting out the false translations and BS listed on the link you provided?

Besides the fact that I have not cited any of the purported 'fake' sites,
[edit on 27-8-2010 by ollncasino]

Again...repeating myself...are you just pretending your own posts don't exist?

Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by ollncasino

Have a look yourself. The verses are listed by this page.

www.answering-islam.org...

You might want to vet where you are getting you Quran translations before you post them as "Gospel".

answering islam dot org..Where you chose to cite your "interpretations" of the Quran as opposed to the actual verses.

Let us not play dumb...a google search regarding that site returns thousands and thousands of posts explaining precisely what it is.

At best..the most generous explanation of the site...It is a Christian run site to help convert Muslims to Christainity.

At worst...it is filled to the brim with the most reaching, twisted, distorted interpretations of Islam.

There is even a site dedicated to refuting it started by some fairly POed muslims ... Answering - Christianity dot org.

Now are you trying to tell me that (A) You have not cited this website? Because your post above shows different. or (b)...that this website is some form of nuetral provider of information on the Muslim Faith or provides accurate interpretations of the Quran?

Niether are remotely true.



[edit on 27-8-2010 by maybereal11]

reply to post by awake_and_aware


The Thread (OP) referred to crime and immigration, particularly violent crime commited by Moslems. But it HAS degenerated into the usual 'your book tells your adherents to do bad things' versus 'no it does not and anyway, your book is as bad as you say ours is' and I am frustrated that yet again, no honest, non partisan discourse about the issues raised in the OP!

Debate as you will! Perhaps one day the debate can focus on the issues raised and not on individual opinions.