You have the Right to be Racist, Bigoted, and Hateful

Originally posted by DaWhiz

Originally posted by Onboard2

Originally posted by Gun Totin Gerbil
What happens when whole communities are bigoted , racist and hateful . Such that they do not have any kind of limiting factors to bring them back into the realms of normality and decency , say like some areas of the US in some southern states ?

Birds of a feather flock together. Would you have anything in common with them? If not, you wouldn't associate with them.

Gun totin gerbil asked a reasonable question.

As stated before, show me 1 community where people are not bigoted, racist or hateful. The real world is proof that every where you go, you are gonna find tons of discrimination and intolerance.

It's pretty indisputable.

Unless you have proof of a 100% positive loving community???

but mental anguish which is caused by heartless, cruel people thinking others should just 'get tough'.

Your heartless and cruel post has caused me mental anguish. Should you go to jail for this?? No. Because I can choose to not care instead.


Also, I never put anyone on ignore. I like seeing everything said.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
reply to post by lowki

 

I think one must the discern, metaphorically, the difference between killing a disease with, say, antibiotics, which isn't killing out of hate but self-preservation, versus killing a disease by killing one's self in the process. Hate is poison to the soul and body.

That's funny.

The Nazi's believed that their hate was an antibiotic to a disease. And they were getting rid of the "negative" people in society (the disease) for their own German "self-preservation".

Your argument is totally subjective. And it depends entirely on what point of view you choose.

According to what you just said, the Nazi's hate was acceptable because it was an anti-biotic for self-preservation.

Edit: Damn link didn't work. I'll just C&P:

I was a hate filled individual until 32. I hated everything, everyone and myself. I'm an expert on hate. I think that's the first time I called myself an expert on anything here, but it's a fact.

Hate takes a lot of energy to maintain. That's energy better used in your day to day life. I didn't realize how much energy it took until I let the hate and anger go. You don't even have to be conscious of the hate for it to be sucking you dry. Get rid of the hate guys. It doesn't mean that someone else wins. YOU WIN!!! Not only will you be happier but you'll have a helluva lot more energy.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by intrepid]

Say you're walking down the street with your wife and kids. Say some nut is brandishing a katana and screaming lines from "The Last of the Mohicans" (1992 release). Say you steer your family onto the other side of the street and change your course to avoid that person. Does that make you a bigot? I certainly don't think so. That does NOT make a person a bigot. It's idiotic to say, "I'm bigoted against nut-jobs wielding katanas." No, rather, I want to keep my family safe and took appropriate action.

Furthermore, liking the band U2 and not liking Pink Floyd does not make me "bigoted" against Pink Floyd. Rather, I just happen to prefer U2. Liking Harrison Ford's acting style over Daniel Day Lewis doe not make me "bigoted" against DDL. Rather, I prefer HF.

Technically and semantically, perhaps it is a stretch for "bigoted" to be used correctly in the examples I provided above.

Back to the first example about the katana-wielding nut-job. Replace him with a Native American, or Pacific Islander or African American or Irish American or -ANY ethnicity. --"Normal" Americans who are not doing anything out of the ordinary, normal people just going about their business. ...If I steer my family to the other side of the street to avoid them, and/or whisper to my children, "Stay away from them, those people are bad people, they smell, they lie, they cheat..." Then I would be a bigot.

It is important not to obfuscate what being a *real* bigot is. A *real* bigot has an unfounded prejudice against another race, gender, religion, --whatever. Hate for hate's sake.

I can just see some naive person reading the intro to this thread and going to school or work saying, "Yup. I'm a bigot. You're a bigot. Hey, we're *ALL* bigots! Let's have a big bigot party! Get it? 'B-I-G bigot!' Isn't that clever!?"

Personally, I choose not to accept unfounded hatred. It's not what makes America strong. We're stronger *because* of our differences, because of our (not tolerance) *acceptance* of those differences. Who eats at a buffet that serves only one kind of dish? America is the best stocked buffet in the world. You won't find many Mexican restaurants in China; you won't find may Italian restaurants in Indonesia, nor Thai restaurants in Iraq. But, you will find cuisine from all of these countries in America.

America didn't become a superpower because it was a nation of bigots. America became great because we embraced differences and used them in every way. Personally, if America has slipped, it's because bigots are rising to power and rising in number.

I refuse to accept unfounded hate. I refuse to call myself a bigot.

Oh, and another thought: the Powers That Be (PTB) would prefer to stoke the hornet's nest and have race wars because it keeps everyone off balance and fearful, hateful. They thrive in that environment, like the Sith from Star Wars. Create conflict, enjoy the benefits of pitting sides against each other.

In our world, this is done to confuse the REAL bigotry and hatred and prejudice. Here is the truth: the main differences are not that of race, but of income. You don't have wealthy elite inviting the average working class family to dinner, do you? Okay, I'm sure there is someone out there who is of modest means who was probably invited to dinner at some millionaire's house ten years ago. I'm talking generalities about income strata here.

The main distinction in America is that of the extremely wealthy and the modest. And, who do you think is winning? The wealthy. They generally don't invite working class people over for cigars and brandy. When was the last time YOU were invited to the estate of a millionaire for a game of squash or polo and then tea afterwards?

It just so happens that these wealthy elite got bailed out several times. Talk about birds of a feather flocking together. So, before you start filling your heart with hate for another race, consider this: the wealthy (all races) do not associate with the modest (all races). Yet, the main stream media (MSM) banks on racially intense stories that heat people up.

Originally posted by GhostLancer

America didn't become a superpower because it was a nation of bigots. America became great because we embraced differences and used them in every way. Personally, if America has slipped, it's because bigots are rising to power and rising in number.

Well actually it has always been a nation overrun by bigots. For the most part.

Ever heard of the Manifest Destiny where America expanded BY INVADING the lands of "primitives" aka native Americans?

What about the Civil War? Jim Crow Laws? Slavery?

Womens Suffrage?

How about the way Asian immigrants were used as slaves?

Irish immigrants? Eastern Europeans? Gypsies? Jews?

1942 Japanese Interment Camps anyone?

What about the South/Central American immigrants of today? Aren't they here to do the "jobs no one else will do" supposedly?
*Thats what the media claims at least *

How about the way Arabic or Indian people are treated ??

If you asked me, America is a melting pot of every type of bigotry imaginable. Nothing wrong with that though. It obviously helped us learn tons of things about each other and grow into a world Super Power...

So actually our bigotry made us wiser and stronger. Without it, we would probably never have expanded beyond the 13 colonies.





[edit on 16-8-2010 by muzzleflash]

[edit on 16-8-2010 by muzzleflash]

No nation in the world is perfect. Nations are obviously comprised of people. You can find examples of humans behaving badly all throughout history. Yes, America has had its share. Also, nowhere near the scale the rest of the world has seen. Millions killed in Russia. Who knows how many murdered in the Killing Fields of Cambodia. Burmese atrocities? North Korea anyone?

There are also examples of how America integrated its armed forces and schools. Yes, leaders made mistakes by putting the Japanese into camps during WWII. Yes, many, many mistakes were made and are being made. No person is ever equal to the ideal of perfection one might set for one's self, let alone a nation.

But, because America forced its militar and schools to integrate, and got rid of "separate but equal," it did indeed rise to become a superpower. Not BECAUSE of bigotry, ---IN SPITE of it.

Originally posted by GhostLancer

The main distinction in America is that of the extremely wealthy and the modest. And, who do you think is winning? The wealthy.

That is a subjective perspective.

I choose a different perspective however.

Check out this thread that addresses your supposition quite effectively.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

A lot of what you say doesn't apply to me.

I am quite spiritually aware.

I do see all humans as starting off equal.

How do i know this?

I see my mate cid and enhance the power of the spirit molecule if you know what i mean. Also meditating.

I have loads of empathy and am extremely tolerant. I am not racist at all. (Partly because i am mixed race myself and have grown out of it)

I have also grown out of hating people or things.

I accept everything that happens in life as experience. I may get sad or upset about events at times but i don't dwell on anything longer than it takes me to think or understand it in my head. Things i don't understand don't upset me but tingle my curiosity. I have learned to look at the good things in situations and acknowledge the bad things but accept them as in the past.


I do understand that you have a right to be however you want to be but you are wrong in saying that everyone is like this. Because i'm not and i know theres a lot of people who aren't.

The thread started off good.

Originally posted by GhostLancer
No nation in the world is perfect. Nations are obviously comprised of people.

Sounds a lot like backpedaling from your original all inclusive statement.

But, because America forced its militar and schools to integrate, and got rid of "separate but equal," it did indeed rise to become a superpower. Not BECAUSE of bigotry, ---IN SPITE of it.

Without the bigotry, we would have had nothing to base our anti-bigotry on now would we?

You cannot do something in "Spite" of something that never existed (or was imagined to exist).

For instance, WW2 created an apocalypse of "negative emotions". But this in turn created a counter-balance of equally powerful "positive emotions".

The Universe always remains in balance.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by muzzleflash]

And about "how Arabic and Indian people are treated."

First, I am truly sorry if you are either and have been mistreated. Heck, as an American I am sorry for anyone who has been discriminated against because of race, religion, etc. The power of the human spirit has no color; we all bleed red, have hopes, dreams, loves and aspirations.

Second, again... Please understand that there are EXTREMELY WEALTHY arabic, indian, white, black, asian and what-have-you people freely associating with each other because of their income levels, indeed, a CLASS of people who never rub elbows with blue-collar workers or service industry folk.

The wealthy aren't concerned about race as much as if you have enough money to associate with them. That's the REAL bigotry in America, and the world.

All the while, people not in those circles are preoccupied with racial bigotry. It's a big distraction from the *real* class lines in this country.

Originally posted by GhostLancer
I refuse to call myself a bigot.

Originally posted by GhostLancer
So, before you start filling your heart with hate for another race, consider this: the wealthy (all races) do not associate with the modest (all races).

I lol'd.

You are indeed a bigot. You may not be a racist bigot, but you are a bigot when it comes to class. I don't blame you for this perspective at all, I don't really like rich people either. But I don't see how this is not being bigoted.

"Redirect your hate at people who have more money than you do! They deserve it!"

Originally posted by TechUnique
Because i'm not and i know theres a lot of people who aren't.

So are you claiming to be the 100% positive human being?

The Jesus Christ or whatever you want to call it? The Messiah?

I have strong doubts to your claims.

See points D and E from the Op.

I'm not so much "anti-bigotry" as I am for humans being kind and fair and just with each other.

And, yes, you can succeed in spite of something. Bigotry is like a crippling injury. People can learn to walk again after such injuries.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by GhostLancer]

You are indeed a bigot. You may not be a racist bigot, but you are a bigot when it comes to class. I don't blame you for this perspective at all, I don't really like rich people either. But I don't see how this is not being bigoted.

"Redirect your hate at people who have more money than you do! They deserve it!"

Ooops. I accidentally pressed the wrong button. LOL

No, indeed, I am not a bigot. Did I ever once suggest anyone hate the rich? No. I was pointing out that all of the debate about racism was overshadowed by the *real* lines of distinction in America. I was saying that racism pales in comparison to the difference between the very wealthy and the modest. I never suggested anyone hate anyone.



[edit on 16-8-2010 by GhostLancer]

Originally posted by GhostLancer
I never suggested anyone hate anyone.

Neither did I anywhere in this thread. But you assumed I did, to an extent.

In response to that, you went on about points that were easily debunked by mere historical anecdotes.

Just because I defend people's right to hate, doesn't mean I am promoting it. Thats a major misunderstanding many detractors have had.

I'm not so much "anti-bigotry" as I am for humans being kind and fair and just with each other

How "fair and just" is it to "force" others to be "positive"?

As they say, the 'road to hell is paved in good intentions'.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by muzzleflash]

reply to post by muzzleflash


No, that's not what I said. The antibiotic was not used out of hate. You admitted the presence of hate in the Nazis.

If I'm sick, I don't feel inferior to the organisms. There's really no consideration on that level. I don't go on an international bleach rampage. My negative emotions aren't stirred against some strain of bacteria.

I will concede that a good deal of hate may have its origins in the fear of being wiped out. Maybe there was in fact justification to feel threatened by someone perceived as different at one time or another and one needed to know "friend or foe" on sight (perhaps having an endless slew of behavioral codes to assist in this detection). At some point, the purpose is lost but the meme continues to live and ,effectively, dead people live in your head. Those dead people still perceive old threats where they don't exist and they must find a scapegoat for an outlet. One can come to terms with that fact they are not really thinking their own thoughts and let it go.

But, if you read Mein Kampf, you might notice the utter fear expressed of being inferior. In some cases nearly an outright admission of feebleness. I wonder why so much propaganda had to be put into proving inferiority of the other rather danger. Why is dehumanization a necessary ingredient if one merely needs to cure a disease?

Much like your evaluation of my words, a strawman had to be created to attack for their troubles rather than take responsibility.

Originally posted by Patriotgal
Roger THAT!!! GREAT POINTS!!!!
I OPENLY "discriminate". I remember, when THAT, was a GOOD THING!!!
I ONLY eat GOOD FOOD!!

I'm vegan :-).

I only drink, fresh, healthy beverages (when I can help it!)
I only employ, decent, hard-working, honest people- as far as I can tell!
"Discrimination", has NOTHING to do with skin color!!

Agreed.

It IS, about having, and exercising, "common sense".

Actually common sense,
is different for each group of people,
since each person has their own memes,
the memes that are the same,
are what is common.

www.etymonline.com...
discriminate (v.)
1620s, from L. discriminatus, pp. of discriminare "to divide, separate," from discrimen (gen. discriminis) "interval, distinction, difference," derived noun from discernere (see discern)

So to discriminate,
is to be able to tell the difference,
between an apple and an orange.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by lowki]

Originally posted by EnlightenUp

If I'm sick, I don't feel inferior to the organisms.

Well then why take an anti-biotic if you feel that your white blood cells are not "inferior" to the organisms??

The only reason you would take medicine is because you felt your natural defenses were not good enough on their own. Thus the use of outside anti-biotic medications.

So yes being sick doesn't make you inferior to the organisms, but the use of medications implies that you view yourself as inferior and vulnerable.