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Is Life Sentence Too Harsh For Man Convicted of Ninth DWI?

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posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by Sherlock Holmes
 


Well, than what your argument brings to the table is way more scope then you may realize.

Let us say a person jaywalks 9 times, they should get life.

There could be a possible accident caused by the behavior which could cause death.

Just one example.

Whatever happened to the intent component of crime.

Whatever happened to the victim component of crime.

If you are going to argue the possibility of harm, we could throw anybody for anything in prison for life.




posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
Who is the victim?


Anybody who is potentially...


LOL. I'm sorry but until you're the victim, you're not the victim.
Potentially being a victim doesn't make you a victim.



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by mryanbrown
 


Its not about being an alcoholic , as much as it is about driving under the influence.

It isn`t as if the book was thrown at him for his first or even halve a dozen DUI`s .... this is his ninth DUI`s !!!!

Not to mention has other convictions.

===============================================

This "bigot" has gotta go to bed .








posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by UmbraSumus
 


First it was about the choice to drink, but now it's about the choice to drive while intoxicated.

I tried to explain that alcoholism is a disease. I then tried to explain that one is not fully in control of their faculties while intoxicated, which is an expected outcome of the disease.

The disease leads to not being in control of your faculties...



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by mryanbrown
No, I'm sorry that's a fallacy. You're in effect stating that getting drunk while being an alcoholic which is a disease is a choice. That the effects of said disease, are a choice.


1) I am an alcoholic/addict

2) I acknowledged this fact many years ago

3) I made the choice to not let it control the things I do in life(like get drunk and drive)

its not a disease... its being afraid to face reality and using something to distract you from daily life...

I overcame it with no counciling, no drugs... it was simply about accepting the situation and doing something about it.

instead of drugs and alcohol, I chose my 'distraction' to be video games and conspiracy theory.

there is no difference between the effect I get from those and alcohol. its simply about distraction. the problem with alcohol is it also impares your judgement.

but before that first drink, there is no alcohol to blame, so ultimately once you start drinking, YOU and only you are the cause.


that disease BS excuss has no place in my world



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
A two strikes - you're out law has yet to be passed, as far as I know. And even that would only apply to violent crimes
if I understand it correctly. Not the threat of future crime.


Right, I'm not in the US.
I was talking about what should happen to people convicted of these crimes.

I didn't realise that you were discussing the legal terms of it, and I apologise if I jumped the gun and misconstrued your comments.


Originally posted by Hefficide
The defense of the accused is a necessary part of a judicial system, is it not? Are we naive enough to envision prosecutors
as crusading do-gooders and defense attorneys as slimey hacks who would sell their souls for a buck?


I grudgingly agree that the current system is the best that we've thought of, so far.

My objection was to the ludicrous suggestion that you appeared to be implying: namely that judges and prosecutors were out to do the ''right thing'', rather than the most expedient thing for them personally.


Originally posted by Hefficide
Legally means operating a properly registered motor vehicle while in possession of a valid drivers permit or license.


Yeah, but in what way does I not having a piece of paper saying I can drive, prohibit me from driving one of my mates' cars ?

If I'd had nine previous convictions for drink driving, then shouldn't I be in a situation where I can't drive a motor vehicle ?

Or should I just be released into the public because I've served my time ?



Originally posted by Hefficide
Obviously we both believe ourselves to be in the right here. My feeling is that if I allow the law to bend a bit, just
to suit my drothers then it serves no good purpose because the next person who is treated a little wrongly, out of
public opinion, might just be me or one of my loved ones.


And what if one of your loved ones get saved by this law being bent by common sense ?

These DUI people are dangerous, and pose a serious threat to everybody that walks the streets.



Seriously, do you think this mans family wants him
in prison for life, or do you think they might be desperate for some kind of help in getting their loved one back to
his right mind?


Originally posted by Hefficide
I cannot change my opinion here that this man is sick and needs help. He has't killed anyone. In fact his behavior can
be seen just as self-destructive as it is outwardly destructive.

Either way, none of this matters as a judge will sort it all out. I guess then we'll all see which side of things the judgment
comes down on.


I agree that the guy sounds an incorrigible alcoholic.

But, sorry, the first priority is to remove the dangerous person from the public.
They have done that. Everything else should come secondary.



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by kalisdad
 


I'm glad you feel that your personal experiences apply to everyone. And that your level of alcoholism was identical to everyone else.



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by mryanbrown
reply to post by kalisdad
 


I'm glad you feel that your personal experiences apply to everyone. And that your level of alcoholism was identical to everyone else.


A
Acanthamoeba Infection
ACE (Adverse Childhood Experiences)
Acinetobacter Infection
Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS) — see HIV/AIDS
Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome (AIDS) — see HIV/AIDS
Adenovirus Infection
ADHD [Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder]
Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE)
African Trypanosomiasis — see Sleeping Sickness
Agricultural Safety — see Farm Worker Injuries
AIDS (Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome)
AIDS (Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome)
ALS [Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis]
Alveolar Echinococcosis
Alzheimer's Disease
Amebiasis, Intestinal [Entamoeba histolytica infection]
American Indian and Alaska Native Vaccination


www.cdc.gov...


nowhere on this list do I see addiction or alcoholism as a disease.

and it the Center for Disease Control


so I stand behind my original post



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by Sherlock Holmes
 


And the sentiment that he should be removed is what we have in common. We only differ in where to and what manner. I don't want this guy driving any more than anyone else does. I just think soceity would be better served by hospitalizing this man instead of incarcerating.

If he'd have had one, two, even three DUI's jail would be a logical place for him. But nine? That is a huge red flag to me that there are underlying issues which jail (and surely this man, after nine DUI's and a few crimes has seen the inside of jail) just won't fix.

I have really enjoyed this debate and want to thank you for it! But I am bowing out so that I can get relaxed and to bed soon, it's rather late here.



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 12:21 AM
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reply to post by kalisdad
 


Right you can cite something that's credible saying it isn't.
I can cite something credible that says it is.

In the end you're still applying your experiences and standards to everyone else.



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by mryanbrown
 


yeah, why wouldn't I think that if I could do it, everyone else can't also?

I've been to AA groups and have known hundreds of other people that have done exactly what I did
I don't feel I am an incredibly strong willed person

its a choice, not a disease



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 12:25 AM
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Dependency on alcohol, also known as alcohol addiction and alcoholism, is a chronic disease. The signs and symptoms of alcohol dependence include—

•A strong craving for alcohol.
•Continued use despite repeated physical, psychological, or interpersonal problems.
•The inability to limit drinking.

Source: CDC website

[edit on 8/15/10 by Hefficide]



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


if alcoholism is a disease then so is working, paying bills, sleeping, talking...

I'm not arguing that it doesn't have serious health issues
not arguing that once your body is saturated with alcohol, that it won't crave more or that you wont suffer withdrawl from lack of it

I'm saying that all addiction, wether is substance or some other kind of distraction from reality, is just that.... an attempt to distract oneself from reality... once a person realizes this, and many millions have done just that, its something that you can walk away from...

tell someone with parkinsons DISEASE to just walk away from that disease



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by kalisdad
tell someone with parkinsons DISEASE to just walk away from that disease


This is exactly what you're advocating for alcoholism DISEASE.



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 12:50 AM
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reply to post by kalisdad
 


I do appreciate your insight and personal experience with this. But as a person who literally watched his father die from septic shock, due to scerosis of the liver back in '96 I've got to assume that different people must suffer differently from this disease.

I myself have drank too much for short spurts and then quit after a few months of having done so. I am able. But I have seen pure terror and pain my own fathers eyes when he drank. I've seen the man crying not because he was drunk, but because he was ashamed that he was drinking at all.

I don't think he had any control over it all. I honestly don't. He was a strong man who saw combat in Korea and Viet Nam both. He was an a career air traffic controller afterwards. None of these things seemed to stress him. But when he looked at Seagrams Seven it was like he was looking at a demon.

I spent a lifetime trying to understand why he drank so much and the only answer I can come up with is that he simply could not do otherwise. I know he fought it and I watched him lose that fight.



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by mryanbrown

Originally posted by kalisdad
tell someone with parkinsons DISEASE to just walk away from that disease


This is exactly what you're advocating for alcoholism DISEASE.



no,I am saying its not a disease....

and having seen many people walk away from it, I know from personal and nonpersonal experience that it is possible


whereas a real disease cant just be fixed by making a decision to not live with it anymore



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by kalisdad
 


If you can just walk away from it, you're not an alcoholic. You just have control issues.



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


no dount that there was physical pain involved in the fight with alcoholism

but most of that is due to the saturation levels in his body

when someone drinks beyond reason it casuse severe distress to the body

and at a certain level once that damage is done, the only way to not experience the withdrawl is to continue to drink

I lived with a man that decided to stop taking methadone for severe pain relief... watching him go thru withdrawl was the worst thing I have ever witnessed a person experience. at times I wondered if he would live

but he made the decision to suffer thru the pain, knowing that once he got past his body's NEED for the drug that things would get better

and I am happy to say that months later, he no longer suffers like he did for those first few weeks

alcoholism is treated with counciling by millions of people throughout the world

words that help the people suffering from the need to drink are all it takes for them to stop leading that life

not everyone is strong enough to face the facts and they continue drinking

it took my father many years to give it up, but in the end 40 years of alcohol abuse and smoking are the primary cause of his death, years after he quit them both he suffered a massive heart attack

for him, he was able to make the transition from needing to distract himself with alcohol, dealing with the withdrawl, and facing the reality that he avoided his whole life

not everyone is that strong... sometimes the pains of life are not worth facing and its easier to just continue to avoid them with substances.

[edit on 15-8-2010 by kalisdad]



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by mryanbrown
 



you are a wrong... alcoholism is just like every addiction out there

I am still an active addict and have no intent on changing that

I have no desire to live with reality on a day to day basis

I just made the decision that my addiction wouldn't be alcohol



posted on Aug, 15 2010 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by UmbraSumus

Originally posted by mryanbrown


Obviously he's an alcoholic, which is both a physical and mental disease. Deserving of empathy.


Empathy evaporates when confronted with such repeated recklessness of other peoples health and safety.


Bradley said that in addition to the multiple DWI convictions , Stovall also had a extensive rap sheet for other crimes, including burglary, credit card abuse and supplying alcohol to a minor.

link



Originally posted by mryanbrown

These judges have power to put him into treatment. They would rather make an example against DUI rather than serve justice.



"This is someone who very deliberately has refused to make changes and continued to get drunk and get in a car and before he kills someone we decided to put him away," said Williamson County District Attorney John Bradley.


"He basically walked through the penal code for the past twenty years without any regard for safety or society," said Bradley. "In every single one of his cases he had an opportunity to change."

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On the ninth DUI he injuried somebody with a " blood alcohol concentration of .32, four times the legal limit in Texas."

Come on ..... Ryan.


Although I agree with what you're saying, I can't say I commend quoting the District Attorney who is going to be a blatantly biased character. It is his job to secure convictions, after all.




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