Where it all started..........

Facts speak louder than Fiction ?

(2) A New Order is Created

"The Templars came into existence in Jerusalem during the aftermath of the First Crusade. Their Order of Poor Knights of the Temple of Solomon grew from a group of pious soldiers who fathered in Jerusalem during the second decade of the twelfth century. They undertook the duty of protecting pilgrims on the dangerous roads between Jaffa, where they landed on the coast of Palestine, and Jerusalem. They lived under the religious rule known as that of St Augustine, and they had help and guidance from the canons of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem."
- Peter Partner, The Murdered Magicians

"In 1104 the Count of Champagne had met in conclave with certain high-ranking nobles, at least one of whom had just returned from Jerusalem...Also present was the liege lord of Andr� de Montbard."
- Baigent, Leigh & Lincoln, The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail

"Immediately after this conclave Hughes traveled to the Holy Land, where he remained until 1108. He returned there briefly in 1114, than went back to Champagne and donated the Clairvaux site to St. Bernard. Four years later - according to the official story - his vassal and possible relation, Hughes de Payens, with Andr� de Montbard and seven companions, set out on their mission and formed the embryonic Knights Templar. In 1125 Hughes of Champagne himself joined the new Order."
- Lynn Picknett & Clive Prince, Turin Shroud - In Whose Image? The Shocking Truth Unveiled

Hughes de Payens, also from Champagne, was a member of a cadet branch of the Counts of Troyes.

"A document of 1123 refers to Hughes as 'Master of the knights of the Temple' ['Magister Militum Templi'] - it is perhaps significant that 'Magister Militum' had been the title of the commander-in-chief of the later Roman Empire] but his little band was merely a voluntary brotherhood and recent research seems to indicated that they were having difficulty in finding recruits and were on the verge of dissolution. Hughes had come about another crusade, not to ask for a rule.
- Desmond Seward, The Monks of War

"The Templars "chose the name militia templi - soldiers of the Temple - after the temple supposedly built by Solomon in Jerusalem, near which they had been assigned quarters by the King."
- John J. Robinson, Born in Blood

The full original title of new order was Pauperes commilitones Christi Templique Salomonis, the Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and the Temple of Solomon.

"Their first duty was to protect the road to Jerusalem, but it was not long before they assumed the role of a volunteer police force."
- Noel Currer-Briggs, The Shroud and the Grail - A Modern Quest for the True Grail

"Certain noblemen of knightly rank, devoted to God, professed a wish to live in chastity, obedience and without property in perpetuity, binding themselves in the hands of the lord patriarch to the service of Christ in the manner of secular canons. Among these, the first and most important were the venerable men, Hughes de Payens and Godefroi de Saint-Omer. Since they did not have a church, not a settled place to live, the king [of Jerusalem, Baldwin II] conceded a temporary dwelling to them in his palace, which he had below the Temple of the Lord, to the south side....The first element of their profession enjoined on them for the remission of their sins by the lord patriarch and the other bishops, was that they should protect the roads and routes to the utmost of their ability against the ambushes of thieves and attackers, especially in regard to the safety of pilgrims."
- William, Archbishop of Tyre



[edit on 20-9-2004 by billmcelligott]

Originally posted by PublicGadfly

What is in a name? While Frederick inarguably was the creator of Prussia as a �great power� this in and of itself was Germany. Much of what Frederick accomplished was undone by Napoleon- this does not detract Frederick's accomplishments.

To follow your logic(Masonic Light) one would have to conclude that Blucher was not German (in the modern sense of the term). Nothing could be farther from the truth.

That is not the point, and you know it. Necros claimed that Frederick "unified Germany", and that assertion is blatantly false. We all know that Prussia was a German state, but Frederick held no dominion over Bavaria, the Rhineland, or the other German states. End of story.

�lying�- such a harsh indictment.

And also an accurate one.

No one can misquote Pike. The master plagerist is made up the 'philosophy' that is so often defended.

Your lie that Pike was a plagiarist has already been debunked. You'll have to try again.

And this is untrue?

Apparently you didn't read my previous post. Next time, try reading what is already written before attempting to have me waste my time by repeating myself.

I just love the side-slam. Is this taught in some masonic ritual?

I can only asume it was learned by reading the willy-nilly herd-mentality propaganda of Necros and Gadfly.

Where did it all start....

A hell of a long time before modern speculative freemasonary.

Hiram Abiff was the architect of the Temple of Solomon built on the site where the El Sharif Mosque stands today in Jerusalem. The sons of Lamech were suppossedly the first of the Adamic race to posses the hermetic knowledge of the ancients, but the real breakthrough is said to have been the aquisition of the Tables of Testimony which were placed in the Arc of the Covenant.

When Moses (Ankenahton) came down from the mountain the first time, the Tablets he received were scripted in the Holy Kabbala and broken into peices, the second set of tablets contained the ten commandments and both sets of tablets were placed in the Arc.

When the Temple of Solomon was built the Arc was sealed in a vault deep below the stables under the temple. It remained there until the Knights Templar excavated it in the first crusade to the Holy Land, the legendary wealth of the templars is from the excavation of the subterranean vaults of the Temple.

The Arc of the Covenant was removed to be translated in the Langudoc of France. The results of the translation of the tables of testimony can be seen in architecture the Notre Dame cathederals of France, the quality of stained glass contained therein has not been equalled today.

The Templars power was almost unlimited at this time and it wasn't long before the papalcy of Rome, outlawed the Templars and lauched the Albigenesian Crusade to recover the Arc and associated treasures. Forunately the Arc was spirited away to Scotland were it remains hidden in secret to this day.

Perhaps one day when the rightful heir Prince Micheal Stewart replaces the miserable german Hanoverean Sax Coberg Gotha legacy on the throne of Britain, treasures such as the Arc and Jacobs pillow will be seen again.





[edit on 20-9-2004 by Flange Gasket]

[edit on 24-9-2004 by Flange Gasket]

Hiram Abiff was the architect of the Temple of Solomon built on the site

Not strictly accurate . acording to Biblical history God was the architect of the temple. David was given the plans in a dream and passed it on to his son Solomon.

Hiram is a ficitonal Character based upon a few lines in the Bible. There are additional references in Judaic history, to a ,man of emense skills , but strangely enough these skills seemed to be restricted to a Master in metals. Ornate metal craft.

I see you have intimated at Moses being Arkenarten, the dates do not conform. I went down that track some time back but there was about 1500 years apart? However it is reasonable to speculate on , was there a God of Isreal present during Egyptian captivity? Judaic history insists there was , but this conflicts with some of the bible staements, however you cab find an expalanation either way if you need to.

The Arc of the Covenant was removed to be translated in the Langudoc of France. The results of the translation of the tables of testimony can be seen in architecture the Notre Dame cathederals of France, the quality of stained glass contained therein has not been equalled today.

The Templars power was almost unlimited at this time and it wasn't long before the papalcy of Rome, outlawed the Templars and lauched the Albigenesian Crusade to recover the Arc and associated treasures. Forunately the Arc was spirited away to Scotland were it remains hidden in secret to this day.

You say this as if it was aproven fact , we both know there is no proof this happened it is pure speculation. but it makes a good story.

Does anyone think for one moment , if the arc was under Rosslyn Chapel it would be ignored. There have been recent digs and nothing has been found. No clues or artifacts.

Next stop Nova Scotia.

As for the Arc being under St Rosselyns, let me tell you a little story about Jacobs pillow, the coronation stone of the high Kings of Tara and the Kings of Scots.

When the sacred stone was not being used for coronations it was replaced by a sandstone replica. This replica was in turn stolen by the English who have coronated all their monarchs on it for hundreds of years. The English have placed it in a Scottish museum now and insist that it is the real thing.

The coronation stone of the English kings is the longest running joke the Scots have ever had....

The only thing that surprises me about the dig at Rossyln's Chapel is that their wasn't a gilt box buried with a pair of old boots in it for the archeologists to herald as the lost Arc.

Perhaps it's simply amusing enough watching them impotently dig holes,
not as amusing as them digging in Nova Scotia, given....



[edit on 24-9-2004 by Flange Gasket]

[edit on 24-9-2004 by Flange Gasket]

Jacob's Pillar Stone
Also known as Jacob's Pillow Stone, The Stone of Destiny, and the Stone of Scone


Jacob used a stone for a pillow the night he wrestled with God. After God changed his name to Israel, he then used it as a pillar to mark the covenant he made with God. Tradition has it that the Stone was taken to Egypt, and later to the Promised Land when the Israelites came out of Egypt.

Jacob's Pillar Stone was to play a vital roll in the three overturnings of the throne of David.

The Stone remained in Jerusalem until after 586 B.C. when Jerusalem was destroyed, and it was taken by Jeremiah to Ireland with the daughter of Zedekiah. After this time, the Kings of Ireland would be crowned while seated upon the Pillar Stone of Jacob.

When the throne of David was overturned a second time to Scotland, the Stone was taken to Scotland by the first Scottish king, Fergus, in the ninth century, and placed at the ancient capital of Scone (pronounced Skoon). The Scottish kings were also crowned while seated upon it.

The Stone of Jacob was seized by King Edward I in 1296, and has been used in the coronation of every English monarch since. Queen Elizabeth II was crowned while sitting on the Coronation Chair containing the Stone.

Until recently, the Stone of Jacob (Israel) has sat under the Coronation Chair in Westminster Abbey, in silent testimony to the dual promises made by Almighty God to the descendants of Abraham. After 700 years at Westminster Abbey, the stone was recently returned to Scotland and is on display at Edinburgh Castle. It has remained with the descendants of Israel since the time of Jacob, and the Royal Seed of David have always been crowned upon it.

I presume this is what is refered to.

yep, that''ll teach me to chat on this forum with half a bottle of whiskey under my belt.

lets start again, Jacobs pillow, it's a fake, it's a replica, Longshanks never got the real thing. It was offered back to Robert Bruce and he laughed and told the english to keep it.

All the history of Jacobs pillow since about 1300AD is the history of the replica. It's a wonder the elliots didn't share in the joke.

Bill, I bear you no grudge, your obviously much smarter than I, but bear in mind that yours and my forebears fell together at Culloden, and that the English are liars and thieves who write history as it suits them.

I'll take the Scot's version everytime, as passed from father to son.

Best of luck to you, I'll bother you no more with my tales



[edit on 24-9-2004 by Flange Gasket]

Oh, certianly not smarter. bit tenacious mayebe, but its no bother. The truth, whatever that is can take whtever examination is called on.

Indeed the name mcelligott although strictly speaking is irish was founded in the Mcloud clan, highlanders. And there were a great many Mclouds that fell on that day.

There are twp opposing views on the Pillow. The problem I have with it is , I just can't immagine a scot giving it away for nothing? Its a romantic story, but was life romantic then, or was it a battle for power. The Pillow was a symbol of absolute power, I find it hard to believe that it would have been turned down.

However as you say , there are opposing opinions.