- paperclip

Why do suicide bombers believe they will be rewarded for thier actions?

Why aren't muslims tried in a court of thier peers the same way catholics and christians are. Ref:Mcviegh/ errrr.... Lady in texas that killed her kids.

What is Jihad? and why wouldn't there be an equal in christianity.


It sounds like you are trying to pretend like muslims dont condone the killing of infidels.

Lots of people hide behind religion as a reason to do things, but the question being asked is if it is an accepted practice for muslims.

I keep hearing the argument that muslims dont kill innocent civilians, but isn't that just a cover. Isn't true that if you are a christian or a catholic or a jew, than according to muslims you are no longe innocent, but you are now an enemy?


Straight forward question- Do muslims condone the killing of christians, catholics, or jews?

there not supposed to prove anything other than the koran isnt talking about puppies and leprachans and dancing gnomes, its talking about disbelievers of the muslim faith. whether or not taken out of context, its still language that could easily be manipulated to justify whatever violence the readers want it to.

Originally posted by paperclip
hmmm lets apply certain logic, noticed in these discussions, on christians.

Timothy McVeigh blew up a building, killed lots of civilians. He is white catholic and believes in God, he said it himself. So Christian God is violent, McVeigh read the bible, he killed people, he said it is ok so it must be ok. t.

Just because someone says they are a christian doesn't mean they are. If I walked into my garage would that make me a car? True christians have a deeper understanding of the Bible. Yes, God did order the Israelites to wipe out entire nations as they entered the promiseland. Part of the problem was the genetic influence of the fallen angels. I will have to go on the internet to find where the verses are that talk about killing to further islam.

The Koran does authorizekilling.
What is Jihad?

They believe in a holy war against unbelievers. Let the Koran explain it:

"God has bought from the faithful their selves and their belongings against the gift of paradise; they fight in the way of Allah; they kill and get killed; that is a promise binding on Allah... (Repentance, 9: 110).

They are radical Moslems who follow every scripture in Koran and trust in the Koran. Koran promotes fighting for the cause of their evangelism. Here are some scriptures from Koran.

If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

The Koran also instructs not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (Koran 5:51) but to war against them: "When the Sacred Months are over, kill those who ascribe partners to God whosesoever ye find them; seize them, encompass them, and ambush them; then if they repent and observe prayer and pay the alms, let them go their way (Koran 4:5)

On the other hand Jesus never told his followers to kill those who do not repent.

Mt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, all power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Ex 20:13 Thou shalt not Murder.

Lu 6:27 But I say unto you, which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you.

(This scripture is for individuals and not for nations as a whole. God in the Old Testament allowed Israel to destroy wicked nations.)

Originally posted by asdasd12345
religion should be banned.

Damn straight, it promotes ignorence and conflict. Things we certainly do not need, or have to accept today.

Originally posted by popeye0314 What is Jihad? and why wouldn't there be an equal in christianity.

Ever hear of the crusades?

Originally posted by popeye0314I keep hearing the argument that muslims dont kill innocent civilians, but isn't that just a cover. Isn't true that if you are a christian or a catholic or a jew, than according to muslims you are no longe innocent, but you are now an enemy?

The fact that everyone seems to be ignoring is that the islamic world is under attack by christian America, but i'm sure no matter what religion they are invaders would still be fought nail and teeth.

Originally posted by popeye0314Straight forward question- Do muslims condone the killing of christians, catholics, or jews?

Christian America has killed 13000 muslim civilians in the last year in Iraq alone. They have every right to be pissed off. Again, lets remember the millions killed in the numerous christian crusades. Death on a massive scale, all for the christian god.

Why is it that christians in general feel they are so superior to every other religion? Especialy in reguard to violence, short memories I guess.

[edit on 21-6-2004 by SiRiNO]

Sirino-

Im confused that you think religion should be banned, but you support the Islamic faith. Are you on a fence?

The Crusades.....From what I know the crusades where a Catholic thing. See, here is the problem, I talk about God the creater and his son Jesus (Yah Shua) and some how in order to try and make a point you contaminate what I say. Christianity is the belief in christ and his father and the Bible. Where in the bible where the Crusades condoned?
The Crusades where started by Pope Urban 2nd aprx 1090. Did you know that most true christians believe that the Catholic church and the Pope have been corrupted by satan. Catholics have there own take on the bible and have used it to provide reason to do what they want. Where again is the Pope in the bible?
You say that the islamic world is under attack by the christians, but a christian that follows the bible and Christ's teachings would not kill, even if it meant the lose of thier own life. Jesus could have stopped his own murder, but didn't. As a Christian the bible teaches us to let God judge, not us. Don't get me wrong, there will be wars that the christians will be involved in, but only at the command of God himself.
Christians don't believe that they are superior, they believe that under christ all are equal and have the same oppurtunity to receive grace from God. Jesus taught that as we judge another so may we be judged, and to pray for our enemies, and to forgive those which hurt us as we would ask God to forgive us.
Any religion that teaches its followers to kill those who are not the same as them is a satanic religion.
Follow the bible = forgive, love, pray and let God handle the problems.

Why does islam teach to kill those that will not submit to allah?
Who is allah?
Why do muslims fight each other?

Well, ok! We have to kill Islam...

But, isn't it what is said by the church of G.Bush lobby?: In the end, everyone will be Roman or we are all to go to hell...

So it is nothing important if arabs (and Jews) are killed. This is quiet normal for the bright pure race of Romans that will come soon. Romans are the truth.
Thank you, kill them all, this is a roman beheviour, you will kill for a pure race of racist Americans that save the world with wars.
Just like Prescott bush (the grand father of W.) did in 1940 when he was the Adolf Hitler Banker and weapon seller, making people work in his firms in east Europ from concentration camps (Jews to be gazed).

You are not shocked? W. is of the same tradition and proove it! And also make some funky money with the oil of Saoudit Arabia and Iraq now.
America, you are not said everything and you are the most racist people I ever seen. Maybe in Germany in 1924... but I wasn't born.
I'm Christian and hate what is doing Bush, this is not Christian at all, this is only nazi (politic, war, money and religion or thought in the hand of one man or sect for a pure world)

[edit on 21/6/2004 by Alchy]

I missed something......what are you talking about?

I'm an atheist. I have friends that are of every religion or faith. Many of my friends are Muslim. They all seem cool but most have said the U.S. needs to mind its' own buisness and get out of their air space. I dont judge people on their religion or political views. That said here is my question in my own sweet unpolitically correct way that I always say things in because I hate political correctness:

Where are all these billion or more Muslims that are so against the terrorist? More like one billion five BTW.

Even after a few beheadings and everything else that has been going on in the world since 1979 when the U.S. first started being a major pest in Saudi because of the hostage crises in Iran and after the 9/11 thing there has still not been a major condemnation of what this supposed minority in the muslim faith is doing to Non-Muslim people all over the world.

Where are these screaming one billion plus Muslims now?

Imagine what a billion or more people saying 'Hay stop all this crap!' would do to the supposed minority like bin Ladins' bunch.

I dont think bin Ladin and his bunch is in the minority at all. I think several hundred million Muslims think the same as he does. That's why all this crap is still going on. If MOST Muslims were good people then there would be no terrorism because this supposed minority would not have any place to hide not even in their own countries.

It is amusing how many people have taken the propaganda they are being fed hook, line and sinker. What bin Laden and his people are doing has NOTHING to do with religion. bin Laden is a salesman. He USES religion to snare weak minded people. Jim Jones did it here. It takes a person with charisma, a plan and a religion and you will get people to follow. Pick a religion. Just about any religion will work. It just so happens that he lives in an area where Islam is the choice. So he uses that to exploit people.

Before you comment I'd recommend opening a history book. Go back a few hundred years. Look at all the people murdered in the name of religion. Look around the world and pick a country. Chances are there have been tens of thousands of people murdered because of their religious beliefs. The US might be except from that simply because of the age of the country. But for that we mass murdered the indians. I remember taking my History Since 1700 class in college. I was disgusted at the things people did in the name of religion. If you think Muslims want to take over the world I tell you then they are not the only group that has tried.

Now if you want to blame Islam because of where these people live and what they claim to believe then what do you say about people like Catherine the Great, Ivan the Terrible, Stalin, Hitler, or even Truman who had over 100,000 Japanese civilians murdered? Want to get down to individual cases? What about the guy that beheaded Adam Walsh? Or that guy recently that tried to cut the heads off of his kids? Look at the gang violence in LA.

This stuff is everywhere and everyone is doing it. Don't buy into the propaganda and think only Muslims are capable of hate. That is so far from the truth. There are many GOOD Muslims. MOST are good. Just like with any group in the US there are a few bad ones that make the headlines.

organized religon is the opiate of the masses

This thread has lost the plot, i thought we were talking about Islamic terrorists not Islam

Originally posted by infinite
i thought we were talking about Islamic terrorists not Islam

Can some people even tell the difference?
Bush uses fear and religion much in the same way that The Islamic extremists do.

Of course these terrorist use Islam to brainwash the young so that they join up. Islamic terrorists have nothing to do with Islam, not all muslims are terrorists. Islam is a peaceful religion

I can tell the difference between the two, on one hand you have a peaceful religion and on the other you have killers who are not muslims, but killers using Islam to gain support.

[edit on 22-6-2004 by infinite]

Islam is not like this, but in USA mind. Strange!
But think more about Bush and what his familly lobby have already done (in economy, oil, wars in Iraq, WW2, religion, high tech, nazi.......). They controled Hitler money, weapon and war.
G. Bush are roman sionists and once again, the war will come with roman and/or nazis, whites.
Know much more about Bush familly and its relation with the nazi cause, the wasp and the oil of the world that is in Iraq and Saoudi, but go to Bush, Pearl, Wolkowitz, Cheney... oil, religion and war lobby.
America really don't think the same as the world and also knows so few about everything it claims

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
Is Islam really the enemy?
Vilification of a faith can condem many millions of inocents. The true enemy hides within all faiths. Evil knows only a few. But that very evil would have you condem all in the name of Faith.
In my view Islam is not the enemy for if it were we'd be facing an army of many millions. But in the end that may be the ultimate goal of islamic terrorism.
Gazz
[edit on 20-6-2004 by UM_Gazz]

The reason many are convinced Islam is the enemy is because the Major Media Outlets concentrates its attention there. The war is supposed to be a war on terrorism, but I think the hidden agenda is to demonize the Countries that have Islam as their main religion. Most average people who work jobs and watch TV as their main source of information and current education will be trapped on what the Agenda wishes to convey to the populace. Right now, the war on terrorism agenda is earning lots of money for the people who control the major business cartels. The war is killing many innocent people who, I believe, wish to not partake in such wars. It seems hardly a war at all, because there is just killing by the 'coalition', in which dollars are being made and spent. If there was a true method of eliminating terrorism, as I believe the war on terrorism is supposed to do, there needs to be a fundamental change in the way the coalition acts upon those countries that harbour the terrorists. Also, terrorists can be anywhere, not just in the middle east, they can't just be people who follow Islam. The laws in respect to terrorism make no distinction as such who a terrorist is. Read the laws and make sure that anything you do doesn't make you look like a terrorist. How to approach the war on terrorism rather than killing the terrorist? How about providing funds and aid to those countries where the terrorists are located, things like access to education, clean and reliable infracstructures, medicine etc. Then maybe, just maybe, those countries that support terrorism and the terrorists will begin to see the United States as a good nation that wished to actually free people of their suffering. This, in my opinion, would be a positive step towards obtaining peace and the elimination of terrorism.

In the end, the people who are using the war machines in todays current events have their extended hand in terrorism anyways, which is why terrorism is still here and which is why the 'war' is not getting anywhere. As the days roll by, the headlines keep reading that another person was beheaded, thousands more Iraqis die, these American soldiers died, and last but not least and which they will never put on a headline, Halliburton has increased its per share earnings. To eliminate terrorism? No, to make more money and increase control by the those few 'up there', who have no regard for humanity's wellbeing.

Terrorism is not even a reality for most people who live in the west anyway, the only terror western folk are exposed to is on a TV and Computer screen, both effective tools for the elite to generate the needed public opinion to further the agenda. I think that if the major media and the Government started talking about a war on Pollution, people would forget all together about the war on terrorism and at this point those same laws that restrict terrorism will still be there, watching and waiting for you to make any wrong moves against 'them'. Yes, when this show is over, freedoms will have been restricted further.

Do you want to win the war on terrorism? Stop dropping bombs and starting dropping the things that people need to get rid of terrorism-education about what the west is about, what religions do, food, medicine, etc.

If you think all terrorists are of Islam, than you are sufficiently brainswashed and under control.

I will say this again:

Where are the over one billion condeming muslims that hate what these terrorist are doing to the western world?

After three beheadings and 9/11, I still see NO major outcry by this supposed passive religion. The Islamic leaders could care less. As you say, there are over one billion muslims. I say the number is closer to one billion five. How come all these 'good people' aren't screaming to the top of their lungs to these terrorist to stop what they are doing? Because a large number of these good people IMO are just like bin Ladin and his bunch.

Lots of people hate their neighbors. Very few of the same people try to fight their neighbors. Because there are so many terrorist then I think the number of Muslims that think the same way as they do is about 5000 to every terrorist willing to give their life for their cause, in other words a huge number. After all about one in 5000 people would really fight their neighbors over something stupid that the rest of us would be able to talk through. We would think about beating the crap out of the jerk next door because his dog barks all night but we wouldn't do it. WE'D STILL THINK ABOUT IT THOUGH!

Please dont give me the excuse that I should open a history book and read about all the bad things the other religions have done over time because I live in 2004 and not 1493.

I also dont want the excuse that Islam is not the same as Islamic terrorist. These terrorist ARE members of Islam. They are Muslim and Muslims practice the religion of Islam. It may very well be a distorted version of Islam but it is the Islamic religion.

How come they dont get on TV and denounce these terrorist? All I see is a few and I do mean few leaders like the King of Jordan putting down these terrorist but then he is two faced like the Saudi family and almost every other leader over leader over there.

Originally posted by TexasConspiracyNut
How come they dont get on TV and denounce these terrorist?

I do, i remember watching a lot of programs where Muslims have denounce terrorism. There was a program on channel 4 (UK) called "Children Of Abraham" and it spoke about the worlds three major religion. Anyways, on the show,they had interviews with Muslims and most of them, expect for the extremists, said terrorism has nothing to do with Islam. After sept.11th, most Muslims claimed that Islamic terrorists were totally different from Islam. But how come we won't see them on CNN and FOX claiming this? because the mainstream media can't make the so called "enemy" seem a nice bunch of people. Before Sept.11th no nody cared about Islam, but after Sept.11th, everyone went to the throat of Islam.

What you all need to understand is that normal muslims do not want to kill you, thats just lies by the media. Islamic extremists are a different topic, its funny how they always use verses in the Holy Koran that best fits them. Did you know that the Koran states a muslim isn't someone that takes random parts of the Koran which best fits them, thats what Islamic terrorists do. Question to the members who think Islam is "evil", "violent" whatever, have you actually read the Koran?

Islam 101

According to Walter Williams. the John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics at George Mason University in Fairfax, Va., “The Muslim world is at war with Western Civilization.” (snip)

“At the 1972 Olympic Games in Munich, several athletes were massacred. In 1979, the U.S. Embassy in Tehran was taken over and 52 hostages held for more than a year. In 1983, U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut were blown up, killing 241 U.S. soldiers. In 1988, Pan Am flight 103 was bombed, killing 270 people. In 1993, there was the first bombing of the World Trade Center, and in 2001, it was reduced to rubble, killing more than 3,000 Americans. In 1998, U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed, resulting in more than 200 dead and 4,000 injured.” (snip)
____________________________________________________________

These passages from the Koran tell it all:
· "Fight those who do not believe in Allah" (Surat At-Taubah 9:29).
· "I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them" (Quran 8:12).
· "The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures" (Quran 98:1-8).
· "Fight against those who believe not in Allah, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth [Islam], until they are subdued" (Surat At-Taubah 9:29).

There are approximately 66 wars being waged world wide, through out Africa and South America, Spain, Chechnya, Bosnia, Indonesia, India, and Tunisia, just to name a few. Other than in South America, (which has a major Castro influenced communist problem), name the wars, which do not involve Islam in one-way or another.

We can argue the Crusades, the Inquisition, the fact that Europeans conquered North and South America and in the process murdered much of the native Indian populations, and what is alleged to be Christianity has killed many, but that death toll is minor compared to just two ideologies in the 20th century. If you research the death toll world wide over the past 100 years, you will find that there are two ideologies responsible for the greatest carnage the world has ever known. Communism/Socialism in Russia, Germany, (Yes boys and girls, Fascism is just another form of Socialism), China, South East Asia, and other countries along with Islam is responsible for hundreds and hundreds of millions of deaths.

As has been well stated in prior post, the world of Islam is shouting in silence at what their brothers and sisters are doing. Instead of outrage on 9-11, the barbarians were dancing in the streets. Mosques in America and Europe, teach Moslems, especially children that non-Muslims are sub-human who do not deserve the same respect as Muslims do. They are also taught being taught terrorism and bankrolled by Middle Eastern nations such as Saudi Arabia.

If Moslems want to be taken as a religion of peace, maybe it is time they cleaned their own house and took out the trash.

Ghostwoflemoon