duality creates logic and intelligence

Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by saabacura

So what I realized was duality is the reason why we have intelligence. Without duality, there will be no such thing as intelligence... as in you won't need it.

what you think?

I think you are exactly correct.

Duality feeds the mind and what it calls intelligence ... the realization that intelligence is unrelated to knowledge or truth can only become when the mind liberates itself of the conceptual relativism of duality.

Many intelligent people are mired in suffering, in fact more so due to their intelligence ... the above is the reason why.

good post,
I feel liberating mind from the concept of duality doesn't really get you anywhere. Perhaps one may feel enlightened, a higher sense of spiritual knowledge perhaps but irrelevant to this world that we are "stuck?" in. I feel that you are hinting that we are permanently stuck in some kind of a nightmare.

Originally posted by saabacura
reply to post by Xtinguish

 

this world would be impossible for any of us to imagine

Yes. The Chinese call it Tao.

reply to post by Xtinguish


So I read little bit about Taoism. To me, it seems like a way of life....
What you actually said, the way i read it, is a world where no duality exisit. And I say to you, that is impossible for us whose existence is due to the phenomenon of duality...to understand a world where it doesn't exist.

reply to post by saabacura


For western thought, yes. This is far eastern mysticism, and these world views are greatly different from our western thought. For example, a child in western society might ask his parents where do I come from? When, a child from far eastern thought will ask his parents how do I grow. The thought does not separate himself from the external world, rather he knows it is all one.

They see our western thought as a mirage as if springs of water seem real. Like animals who, made thirsty by heat, run after them. Animals, not knowing that the springs are an hallucination of their own minds, do not realise that there are no such springs. They find western thought ignorant and simple-minded, our minds burning with the fires of greed, anger and failure, finding delight in a world of many forms, our thoughts obsessed with ideas of birth, growth and destruction, not understanding what is meant by existent and non-existent, and being impressed by the wrong discriminations and speculations since the beginning, falling into the habit of taking hold of this and that and thereby becoming attached to them.

They see us ignorant as we cling to names, signs, ideas, and feed on our objects and fall into the notion of an ego-soul and what belongs to it. Their teachings do not agree with our common sense which agrees you cannot get something out of nothing. They know that without space you cannot have solid, because without the space you would not know the solids edges. In other words we only know what we mean by contrast, I only know black because of white. I only know small because of big, and ugly because of beauty. What we as westerners think as duality cannot come into being separately, they must remain as one; a unity which underlies them.

reply to post by Xtinguish


Well to a greater extent more an more Asian peoples (Chinese in particular) are succumbing to Western cultural imperialism and losing connection with The Way, which is a shame really. Not to delineate from the OP too much, but the reference made to the way in which language can mold peoples understandings as they grow is an important topic. I agree with what you've said, western thought is concerned with labels and dis-attachment from nature - and Eastern thought pertains to a more holistic centredness on Being.

Those interested in Logic and Language should check my sig for "Lojban" - a language built from logic free from ethnocentricity.



Back to eastern vs. western thought, I would much rather live out the rest of my life in a state of Zen than accumulate facts.

Originally posted by saabacura
duality always creates the scenario of choosing between yes or no. Now to choose between yes or no, one have to have logic. But logic alone does not make any decision . You need have a reasoning power ...meaning intelligence.

So what I realized was duality is the reason why we have intelligence. Without duality, there will be no such thing as intelligence... as in you won't need it.

what you think?

wow
i think you're right.
at least that's part of the reason, there might be more.

but that's brilliant!

So in summary, this is what i think i am trying to say...

whether you are here on earth, or on the far end of the universe , this thing called the law of duality exist throughout. All possible living creatures that may live within this Universe as we know it... Live with the constrictions/limitations within the law of duality.

So that is what i think...

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
reply to post by Xtinguish

 

Well to a greater extent more an more Asian peoples (Chinese in particular) are succumbing to Western cultural imperialism and losing connection with The Way, which is a shame really. Not to delineate from the OP too much, but the reference made to the way in which language can mold peoples understandings as they grow is an important topic. I agree with what you've said, western thought is concerned with labels and dis-attachment from nature - and Eastern thought pertains to a more holistic centredness on Being.

Those interested in Logic and Language should check my sig for "Lojban" - a language built from logic free from ethnocentricity.



Back to eastern vs. western thought, I would much rather live out the rest of my life in a state of Zen than accumulate facts.

I can guarantee you, that 99.9% of average Asians have no clue of what Taoism is... I can also guarantee you that 99.9% Asians don't philosophize everyday like the way you put it. I guarantee you that they are no different from any other people. You seem to give too much credit you Asians when in fact, they are no different

[edit on 16-8-2010 by saabacura]

reply to post by saabacura


"duality creates logic and intelligence"


duality also creates anti-logic and stupidity.

or ... it isn't duality is it?

or does it destroy logic and intelligence?

i'm not sure, must be the dualities in me...

My only criticism of non dualistic cultures is that they don't tend to have great technological achievements. Western dualists built the best airplanes and airports for example.

Faced with an environmental challenge non dualists tend to come up with simpler harmonious rather bland internal solutions IMHO.

Has there ever been a study done that found a correlation between dualistic/non dualistic philosophy and Briggs and Myers psych orientation?

You would think type J would correlate more often with dualistic cultures.

Originally posted by Bordon81
My only criticism of non dualistic cultures is that they don't tend to have great technological achievements. Western dualists built the best airplanes and airports for example.

Faced with an environmental challenge non dualists tend to come up with simpler harmonious rather bland internal solutions IMHO.

Has there ever been a study done that found a correlation between dualistic/non dualistic philosophy and Briggs and Myers psych orientation?

You would think type J would correlate more often with dualistic cultures.

There has been no cultures that lived in accordance to non dualism...

Basically, in this world, the faster one accept that one is no different from an animal, the better everyone will be in general.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by saabacura]

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
reply to post by saabacura

 

"duality creates logic and intelligence"


duality also creates anti-logic and stupidity.

or ... it isn't duality is it?

or does it destroy logic and intelligence?

i'm not sure, must be the dualities in me...

I cannot follow

See this is what iam confused about. We humans are so different from any other animals. We are so much more. I feel like the physical reality and its laws that we live in, does not match with what we are capable of. You see, if I was a intelligent chimpanzee, this world is perfect...because youd never question it...
But for us, we are different. We question this reality.

So in my opininon, the difference between East Asian philosphy and Western philosophy is this... (generally i think)

Western philosophy accepts this limitation that we are given, accepts this nature of duality... and live in accordance to it... with no violation.

Eastern philosophy... chooses not to accept this reality and dualistic laws that we are given, and tries to live with a higher sense of understanding...NOT in ACCORDANCE to the natural laws....

But the thing is... that "this" law is real.... We do live in dualistic world.. we are limited and constraint to what we have...
Our mind may be greater...but our physical body still remains ineffably here.

Perhaps this is the paradox???

Originally posted by saabacura

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
reply to post by Xtinguish

 

Well to a greater extent more an more Asian peoples (Chinese in particular) are succumbing to Western cultural imperialism and losing connection with The Way, which is a shame really. Not to delineate from the OP too much, but the reference made to the way in which language can mold peoples understandings as they grow is an important topic. I agree with what you've said, western thought is concerned with labels and dis-attachment from nature - and Eastern thought pertains to a more holistic centredness on Being.

Those interested in Logic and Language should check my sig for "Lojban" - a language built from logic free from ethnocentricity.



Back to eastern vs. western thought, I would much rather live out the rest of my life in a state of Zen than accumulate facts.

I can guarantee you, that 99.9% of average Asians have no clue of what Taoism is... I can also guarantee you that 99.9% Asians don't philosophize everyday like the way you put it. I guarantee you that they are no different from any other people. You seem to give too much credit you Asians when in fact, they are no different

[edit on 16-8-2010 by saabacura]

Why do you think that Taoism is the only eastern religion with these views? I agree that Taoism is hardly practiced today, perhaps mostly by elders who have withdrawn from society. You are still neglecting the millions of Hindu's and Buddhist who follow these same thoughts, not to mention the rise in interest in Zen Buddhism here in the West.

I think I can conclude with you that the belief in dualism may bring about intelligence and Western thought itself, including its religions. The problem of course is Western thought cannot explain reality in a spiritual manner, instead having to think deeper into sciences, which are now only beginning to discover what ancient Eastern philosophers knew thousands of years ago.

A belief in the illusion of dualism may bring about logical thought, but it may be an illusion none the less.

Originally posted by Xtinguish

A belief in the illusion of dualism may bring about logical thought, but it may be an illusion none the less.

Precisely ... or more simply put, which way is 'north' which way is 'south?'

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/eb010b029d2d.gif[/atsimg]

Without relative conceptual constructs (aka intelligence) there's no duality.

[edit on 16 Aug 2010 by schrodingers dog]

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I think the more important question is if north can exist without south and vice versa. And if not, the one cannot exist without the other, saying there is a unity, then what is the basis of calling it duality?

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I think the more important question is if north can exist without south and vice versa. And if not, the one cannot exist without the other, saying there is a unity, then what is the basis of calling it duality?

reply to post by Xtinguish


What I am trying to point to is that in fact neither north or south really exist other than as relativistic contrivances of the mind ... they are constructs, they do not actually exist.

Duality is simply the result of the mind trying to rationalize existence ... however it is the wrong tool to interpret such knowledge and/or awareness. Therefore it deals with verbal approximations, relative dualities, substitutes information for knowledge, etc ...

This is obviously neither a good or a bad thing per se, for that in itself is a dual abstraction ... it is simply missing the mark.

Using the mind as a vehicle to knowledge is much like letting the engine drive the car.

Two opposites in balance creates stasis, but stasis is not the preferred existential state, so opposing incompatibles allows the emergence of dynamicism, and this is why reality is dualistic. This potential for change, for dynamic activity, creates the wonder and brilliance of physical existence. As hyper-dynamic beings, we tend to dismiss the miracle of a dynamic reality, and even pine for a stable All that eliminates the challenges of opposites. If we were to ever achieve it - if it were even a true being state, in fact - we'd immediately see it for the prison that it would become.