i cant even speak..after watching this

Originally posted by Archon_Adept

You're exactly right, comrade. They want to kill us by giving us all their oil and by letting us put Hussein in power. Muslims hate our freedom, a freedom that must be protected by putting more people in prison than any other country and by having one of the highest per capita police force. We must give up our freedoms through the patriot act, the military commissions act, and warrantless wiretapping in order to have freedom. I know exactly where you come from, comrade, and it's precisely why we must make the Iraqis pay for having wmd and threatening our great society. Thank you, soldier, for protecting us. I salute your skill in allowing 19 hijackers violate one of the most densely controlled airspace and ram them into the wtc. I salute your courage to kill women and children and unarmed men who hate our freedom to kill them. And when the time comes that you'd ever have to protect this country from men who would destroy our economy, send all our jobs to china, print money out of thin air so that they can loan the people's money back to the people with interest, well, sir, I know you would step in to protect the people because I know you would die for the constitution and to uphold it. Thank you, sir! Praise Israel!

[edit on 14-8-2010 by Archon_Adept]

That was a low blow for a person who is doing what you don't. Put his life on the line for USA. Does the USA have some serious issues with politics- yes. Do we as a nation need to step up and clear out the convoluted politics - yes. Quit blaming soldiers for the lack of action on the part of you and I.. the average citizen. He signed on and must follow the orders given to him or go to jail for YEARS hard labor... Easy for you to say disobey an order... it's not your butt going to jail. Honestly, I do think the war is wrong... in many aspects. BUT, I thank soldiers like Reign02 who go into this crazy war and have to suffer from PTSD, long-term head trauma and then so-called peaceful US citizens busting his chops. There is the occasional crazy soldier but most are honorable and straightup.

Have you been to warfront? Been overseas to see any of the action other than the sofa or armchair you are currently snuggled in bitching about horrible soldiers and the crappy war?

I haven't. I know there is social, political and economical reason for this war to have begun. Quit blaming the soldiers and start blaming the right persons. The politicians WE, as US citizens, chose - very poorly, I might add. I include myself in that.

As to Reign02's aggression... obviously you haven't dealt with someone who has been in serious warfront time. The soldiers lose a lot of the bull# societal niceness and are completely blunt and to the point. I happen to appreciate it myself. To bad you don't.

By the way, yea... my opinion... which is still allowed... as is everyone's right. When did ATS become such a trolling station for hateful people?

The funny thing is I notice the ones being the most hateful to a probably decorated soldier are the ones who didn't care to verify Reign02's background to see if he had knowledgeable background. If he is deploying with Navy Seals, Marines, Recon, etc... he is in the middle of the worst crap.. not the nice spots with an occasional mild gunfire.

Personally, I thank Reign02 and wish him safety physically, mentally and hopefully spiritually. War is hell on the soul, mind AND the body. thank you for what I could not.

[edit on 15-8-2010 by mhinsey]

[edit on 15-8-2010 by mhinsey]

[edit on 15-8-2010 by mhinsey]

i can tgo without saying something after being there first hand in 2006 as a very active US marine.

first off, this is very tragic, and dont contort what im saying in that fact, what mainly bothers me about his eye witness acount which makes me mad and unable to watch it all was his saying "we were aloud to engage anything that made us feel threatened"

[Snip]

i was never able to engage anyone unless we were being fired at, or a gun pointed in our direction, even so, many i were with were NOT aloud to engage even WHILE being under fire.

he was right when he said the rules of engagement are a joke, but not in the fact that they are lax, they are too strict.

that all being said, they were in the wrong in this instance, and he was wrong saying that happens everyday.

I would watch his statement, but it really made me mad hearing him lie like that.

for the record, we should have been outa there long ago. not to mention obama *cough* promised we would be out as soon as he was in. thank god for reliable politicians


Mod Note: circumvention of censors

[edit on 8/18/2010 by defcon5]

Free BUMP for you coz you do your homework.

Originally posted by Sphota

Do we belong in Afghanistan at this point? No. Obama reignited a war that should have been let go, .... split; thus, the USSR is no longer in existence. Afghanistan has now turned into a civil war.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm not Obama supporter, but the guy was trashed six times til Thursday for NOT doing the surge, wasn't he???

Yes, ok, fine, the USSR is long gone and it's Afghanistan's fault. Or, was it a pretense to simply create a Russian Federation with a bunch of suzerainties that seemingly have become home to American bases, even as Russia flexes its muscles. To be honest, it all looks like a big bunch of steamy BS. Tajikistan? Seriously? Bases in Tajikistan? On China and Russia's borders? How is this possible without a Red Scare show down a la Cuban Missile Crisis?

I think there is more to all of this than you or I are privy.

Did we belong in Afghanistan after 9/11/2001? Absolutely, 100% Yes. I don't care about what type of propaganda you all he...ing in Afghanistan. Period.

Did we belong in the Chilean coup on 9/11/1973? Milton Friedman says, "Absolutely!"

Don't care about the propaganda I heard? Why, it's the same propaganda you heard as far as I can tell from what you've been saying ...guess some of us see it as propaganda and others see it as verbatim holy doctrine.

I'm pretty sure the Taliban (our ex-anti-soviet friends) said we could have anyone we wanted, just take them, Osama included. Instead we invade. Didn't they say we couldn't have the pipeline we wanted when they came to visit in '98 or '99? They really should have let that pipeline go through...maybe the Taliban were eco-Mullahs?

When it comes to the war on Iraq... It does not matter if Bush lied to us or not. Saddam's role model was noted as being Joseph Starlin. Everything Saddam had ...cold-blooded killer. Period.

Do you know what they do in Egypt or Saudi Arabia???? Seriously, Saddam was a cruel dictator is such a slap-happy, pick-and-choose excuse. Why not through a dart at Africa and take out a propped-up dictator there?

In fact, here's a thought: Why don't we just invade Fiji, they're run by a cruel dictator?

And, I think I just got me a good excuse: Fiji's dictator controls the water supply for all of our most important Americans, like the cast of The Hills. It's a conspiracy to kill scene-sters and the Hollywood chic...time to BOMB FIJI!

Sound ridiculous? Well, just polish up the edges and create a media storm and, BAM: We've got ourselves an excuse to invade Fiji. Really, I think we could easily have just as legitimate an excuse as we had with Iraq under the circumstances. I mean, seriously, cartoon drawings of Laboratory Trains at the UN? What is this, a Bond movie?

I don't care about anyone's theories or counter-arguments on what I just said, and I am not going to respond to anyone who thinks otherwise.

I wouldn't expect any differently. In fact, with your type, I either get shouted at (many registered Republicans and most avowed FOX viewers), which is a great way to really sort out the facts and get some rational dialog going. Or, I get completely ignored or the typical "eye-roll" (usually registered Democrats).

I don't like how people are addressing the United States military in these forums, and I ask you all to give them your respect.

Dissent does not equal lack of respect. In many ways, dissent is respect for human decency and that includes soldiers (at least the human ones). I do not, however, respect the drones.

[edit on 15-8-2010 by RainCloud]

since the dawn of war, innocents have been killed. it is the very nature of war. The only thing that is different is nowadays, technology let's the commoner see what actually happens. This really isn't surprising, is it?

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips
since the dawn of war, innocents have been killed. it is the very nature of war.

Yes. It is.

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShipsThe only thing that is different is nowadays, technology let's the commoner see what actually happens. This really isn't surprising, is it?

You forget we have Geneva Conventions.

The Geneva Conventions comprise four treaties and three additional protocols that set the standards in international law for humanitarian treatment of the victims of war. The singular term Geneva Convention refers to the agreements of 1949, negotiated in the aftermath of World War II, updating the terms of the first three treaties and adding a fourth treaty. The language is extensive, with articles defining the basic rights of those captured during a military conflict, establishing protections for the wounded, and addressing protections for civilians in and around a war zone. The treaties of 1949 have been ratified, in whole or with reservations, by 194 countries.[1]

“ Protected persons are entitled, in all circumstances, to respect for their persons, their honour, their family rights, their religious convictions and practices, and their manners and customs. They shall at all times be humanely treated, and shall be protected especially against all acts of violence or threats thereof and against insults and public curiosity. Women shall be especially protected against any attack on their honour, in particular against rape, enforced prostitution, or any form of indecent assault. Without prejudice to the provisions relating to their state of health, age and sex, all protected persons shall be treated with the same consideration by the Party to the conflict in whose power they are, without any adverse distinction based, in particular, on race, religion or political opinion. However, the Parties to the conflict may take such measures of control and security in regard to protected persons as may be necessary as a result of the war. ”

—- Article 27, Fourth Geneva Convention

en.wikipedia.org...

We are no longer the vikings or monguls or any dark ages barbarian tribes.



[edit on 16-8-2010 by EasternShadow]

reply to post by EasternShadow



US violated Geneva Conventions, Bush Iraq commander says
By David Edwards 0diggsdigg

The head of the US Central Command, General David Petraeus, said Friday that the US had violated the Geneva Conventions in a stunning admission from President Bush’s onetime top general in Iraq that the US may have violated international law.

rawstory.com...

I Bought & watched the Movie called Hanoi Hilton 1987 was there a Geneva Convention at the beginning ? Conflict of Vietnam Police Action..
status in Vietnam as this movie claims you have to declare war in order it to have the Geneva Convention convention effective ? as this movie show's or should i say claimed that POW are not POW's they were considered criminals ?



then again
Third Geneva Convention
en.wikipedia.org...

Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949.
Viet Nam
www.icrc.org...

what is that ACTUAL STATUS of the Geneva Convention in Iraq &
Afghanistan Did congress declare War on Afghanistan or Iraq ?

from the grand WIKI LOL

Military engagements authorized by Congress

In other instances, the United States has engaged in extended military combat that were authorized by Congress, but short of a formal declaration of war.

2001 war in Afghanistan, also known as Operation Enduring Freedom Afghanistan
September 14, 2001

Iraq War, also known as Operation Iraqi Freedom
October 16, 2002



Bush Declares War ?(CNN)
www.cnn.com...
2003 invasion of Iraq
en.wikipedia.org...

Then this ????????????
Justice Dept. : Geneva Conventions limited in Iraq (CNN)
www.cnn.com...

Legal Arguments for Avoiding the Jurisdiction of the Geneva Conventions
www.sourcewatch.org...


[edit on 16-8-2010 by Wolfenz]

reply to post by Wolfenz


Yes. Agreed and noted. Which is why we are here to discuss it as conspiracy. Shall we?

Originally posted by EasternShadow
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

Yes. Agreed and noted. Which is why we are here to discuss it as conspiracy. Shall we?

I was making a point My Apologies as i have not gone thoroughly in the thread


we all know the reason of the Prisoners that are held in Guantanamo bay Cuba of why they are there and not in the states, Right.?. as they should been held/detained right in their own country ...

Guantanamo Bay detention camp
en.wikipedia.org...


Obama Orders Secret Prisons and Detention Camps Closed 1/09 www.nytimes.com...

WASHINGTON — Saying that “our ideals give us the strength and moral high ground” to combat terrorism, President Obama signed executive orders Thursday ending the Central Intelligence Agency’s secret overseas prisons, banning coercive interrogation methods and closing the Guantánamo Bay detention camp within a year.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Wolfenz]

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Wolfenz]

reply to post by Ex_MislTech


adding a Log to the Fire ! its getting Hot

WAR IS A RACKET! Ron Paul (talks about smedly butlers book )


War Corporatism


video made before Barry
what some others think what America is

George Carlin's Greatest Moment


what small portion of people in America thinks

I Say Research the Past anything from Film Reels , to Cylinder records to
literature from Stone to Paper

Some of those Artifact's Secrets of America is Lock Away in place called Iron Mountain as those Bush Administration Files I assume would be there about the Dirt on the Wars of Iraq and Afghanistan the ones that were documented

Well as George Orwell said
"He who controls the past, controls the future"

Historical revisionism (negationism)
en.wikipedia.org...

How Long will it be before America will be like INGSOC,?
one country is North Korea

videos.howstuffworks.com...

Thank you ( insert your god here) for Wikileaks
that has the dirty bloody handled files of ( Iraq Afghanistan Iran etc.. )

as the censorship on You tube is greatly increasing I say this ! the bashing controlling censorship of the truth & conspiracy's and for the prevention of loss before it is put in a place similar to The the Ministry of Truth

Save all Flash all



[edit on 16-8-2010 by Wolfenz]

Originally posted by Wolfenz
reply to post by EasternShadow

 

US violated Geneva Conventions, Bush Iraq commander says
By David Edwards 0diggsdigg

The head of the US Central Command, General David Petraeus, said Friday that the US had violated the Geneva Conventions in a stunning admission from President Bush’s onetime top general in Iraq that the US may have violated international law.

rawstory.com...

I Bought & watched the Movie called Hanoi Hilton 1987 was there a Geneva Convention at the beginning ? Conflict of Vietnam Police Action..
status in Vietnam as this movie claims you have to declare war in order it to have the Geneva Convention convention effective ? as this movie show's or should i say claimed that POW are not POW's they were considered criminals ?

then again
Third Geneva Convention
en.wikipedia.org...

Yes. The third conventions cover POW status. The forth conventions cover Civilian status as shown on OP's video on page 1. Unless OP can show the civilian carried military identification card as define by the third convention?

Originally posted by Wolfenz
Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949.
Viet Nam
www.icrc.org...

Reserve for Viet Nam only.

Originally posted by Wolfenz
what is that ACTUAL STATUS of the Geneva Convention in Iraq &
Afghanistan Did congress declare War on Afghanistan or Iraq ?

from the grand WIKI LOL

Military engagements authorized by Congress

In other instances, the United States has engaged in extended military combat that were authorized by Congress, but short of a formal declaration of war.

2001 war in Afghanistan, also known as Operation Enduring Freedom Afghanistan
September 14, 2001

Iraq War, also known as Operation Iraqi Freedom
October 16, 2002



Bush Declares War ?(CNN)
www.cnn.com...
2003 invasion of Iraq
en.wikipedia.org...

Then this ????????????
Justice Dept. : Geneva Conventions limited in Iraq (CNN)
www.cnn.com...

Legal Arguments for Avoiding the Jurisdiction of the Geneva Conventions
www.sourcewatch.org...


[edit on 16-8-2010 by Wolfenz]

Declaration of War on Terrorism? Of course! But then again, Bush doesn't have any conclusive proof that Iraq involved in 911 incident nor collaborate with the terrorist. It's irony that most hijackers are from Saudi Arabia, United State's own ally. Thus, the argument to avoid Geneva Convention is not valid as Bush Administration can't provide any satisfactory evidences. So on what ground the Declaration of War on Terrorism is based on?

Kofi Annam, UN secretary general, has already stated that the invasion of Iraq is illegal. United States of America and coalition has violated United Nation Charter.

The United Nations secretary general, Kofi Annan, declared explicitly for the first time last night that the US-led war on Iraq was illegal.
Mr Annan said that the invasion was not sanctioned by the UN security council or in accordance with the UN's founding charter. In an interview with the BBC World Service broadcast last night, he was asked outright if the war was illegal. He replied: "Yes, if you wish."

He then added unequivocally: "I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN charter. From our point of view and from the charter point of view it was illegal."

www.guardian.co.uk...

I wouldn't doubt if US government and foreign policy maker come up with more hoaxes, cover ups and deceptions to justify anything including, murdering unarmed civilian and children as shown by OP's video. What hurt me most is 2 British elite SAS caught up disguised as Arab's terrorist and their government is covering them.

Why do we let this happen?


EDIT: Thanks for pointing more evidences. I replied before I read your updated post. Star for you.


[edit on 16-8-2010 by EasternShadow]

[edit on 16-8-2010 by EasternShadow]

In my opinion this is not a mistake it is a war crime.

Originally posted by Reign02
Shooting Children??? Please show me some evidence that we are walking around in the streets killing people!!! I would love to see this.
[]
We are not just murdering people..... Yea innocents do get killed sometimesbut ITS WAR.

Umm? I don't remember any WAR being declared by congress. I thought this was a "policing action"; ie. protect and serve.

You have to remember we are fighting an enemy that HAS NO UNIFORM and can and have been using Women and children to get close to us when we pass out supplies to launch an attack.

You have to remember that you are invading a sovereign country and their patriots, families, and children all want you to LEAVE because the coalition has proven time and time again to be abusive and uncaring towards the civilian population.

www.iraqbodycount.org...

Documented civilian deaths from violence
97,196 – 106,071

There's some concrete evidence for you.


The invasion is illegal, unfounded, and more so in support of multinational oil interests than anything else.

Keep shooting at ROOF TOPS boys... I don't give a rats what your commander has to say about the sand in your crotch.

Bring the troops home, make a international public apology, and give reparations.

Sri Oracle

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Sri Oracle]

There were countless mistakes made by Reuters and those who entered a battlefield to get him out of there. This is the price that is paid when your enemy is too cowardice to fight on a typical battlefields like the majority of armies throughout the world. When you are dealing with a cowardice insurgent force, you have to take the battle to them. And they are to blame for so many innocent casualties. There were countless mistakes made by all parties involved.

What I find somewhat perplexing is how the soldier recounting that experience seemed so shocked and awed by what he had seen. Did he not realize the horrors of war that he was getting himself into? I wonder he is from a podunk town in iowa or something and bought into the silly lies the army tells you in order to get you to sign away the next 6 years of your life.

reply to post by Wolfenz


my good man you bring to the table very good points ,and i thank you so much for your posts ,also you just proved to me that we can leave iraq and it will be fine ,look at vieitnam ,we left their and now its a unifyied country ..so to every one that says we cant leave ,BS ,the only thing we are doing their is cleaning house wiping out people for no reson ,and every brainwashed solder wants to justfiyh it in every way we can ,and feel sorry for them ,now if it were a draft and they had to go it would be a differint story ...but every solder had a choice ! they wanted to go and partake in the killing of innocent people , and after i posted all of this ..i sat here and thought about everything i have read that people posted ,and it comes down to this their is only one job that is not part of this military killing machine ..and that is saving lives like a medic or a dr or anyone that is saving lives over their and not killing them ....

reply to post by LooseLipsSinkShips

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips
There were countless mistakes made by Reuters and those who entered a battlefield to get him out of there. This is the price that is paid when your enemy is too cowardice to fight on a typical battlefields like the majority of armies throughout the world. When you are dealing with a cowardice insurgent force, you have to take the battle to them.

So what you're really saying is that because the invaders won the "war" i.e. successfully invaded, overthrew the government and setup a puppet president, then the iraqis should have accepted this and stopped trying to win their country back. Yeah - how dare they?

If you'd studied American history, you would have been shocked to learn that the revolutionary Americans hid behind trees firing at the British soldiers wearing their bright red and white uniforms standing in ranks out in the open, according to the prevailing rules of war of that day. Such ungentlemenly behavior!!!

Wow, John..way to quote 3rd Grade History.

The Americans didn't bring women and children behind those trees, did they? It's ridiculous that you would even make that ghastly comparison. If you want to call it that.

I'd like to see Bush invading Noth korea if North korea would, say, attack an american naval vessel or whatsoever. I mean, Iraq "supposedly" had WMD, so Bush sent there his dogs of war. I mean: NK HAS AND PUBLICLY STATES THEY HAVE WMD, THERE'S NO "SUPPOSEDLY" HERE and what did he invade NK? NK's dictatorship is as harsh or even harsher than Saddam's and so it affects the U.S.A.'s freedoms, and did he invade NK? The main difference here is that NK won't menace they'll bomb you with a nuke, THEY'LL F****** DO IT fearlessly if you f*** with them as you have with Iraq and Afghanistan, that's why recent american presidents have always treated NK with extreme caution, they take s*** from no one and dare you to provoke them. If this isn't living proof of american hipocrisy (and I mean the government, not americans), I quit.

lol ... some ex-soldiers talking about not being able to rape or to gang rape, kill innocent people

lets be real, this happens in war ... off course, not by everyone ... but it happens

the wikileaks leak tells about that, you can clearly see many villages being TOTALITY destroyed for no reason

so, I respect the opinion of some that they didnt or couldnt do anything bad ... but, to some crazy people, a rule is nothing ... and thats a big problem

and lets be more real now? would you not have a gun in that region? everybody must have a gun there ... the freaking us forces are invading their home ... its their duty to have a gun

Originally posted by Faustian Spirit

What is there for the United States to loot in Darfur? If you'd say SUDAN AS A WHOLE, ok, but Darfur? Get real. On the other hand, tyuing to cover a giant massacre with a smaller one is somewhat inefficient, as it seems.

What is there to loot in Iraq? Lets see, spend 2 trillion and see 6000 Americans die while getting oil for 70 bucks a barrel, yep we got the good deal on that.

This whole we went into it all for oil is getting very old since so far WE STILL HAVE NOT SEEN ANY OF THAT CHEAP OIL! hehe

If we wanted cheap oil all we needed to do was tell Saddam he could do as he willed to his people if he just sold us oil for 25 buck a barrel. I guess we choosed the wrong way to get that oil.

I'm not covering anything up nor am I'm trying to justify a sad situation, but I am showing a day in the life of Iraq. To see these 20 plus pages is a "join the hate America club" when reality shows it means little to what Iraqis do every day to themselves. I am mostly sad that we lowered ourselves to their level even if it was for a moment.