i cant even speak..after watching this

Originally posted by DONNYxMC who are you to judge and tell someone why they did something? from reading an internet post you know exactly why someone is living their life? you have made a fool of yourself by posting this. some people chose to go to war because cowards like you wont do it.

I am not judging son, I am not god. I can live with my attempts to making myself look like a fool. How about you? Some people chose to go to war because they are blind, and not because they're corageous. I'm quite sure you haven't ever smothered an infant so your enemies wouldn't notice you, so don't come bragging about cowards and braves. I hope you never face that scenario, to be frank. And I guess you assume a lot about anyone that doesn't agree with war, by saying I or anyone else haven't ever been there.

its easy to say. "oh you joined because of 9/11" i joined before that. so whats my excuse? you cant just insert your opinion and assume thats why someon did something. you are being ignorant. i joined to help people who arent as free as we are. YES TO MAKE A DIFFERNCE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY. would you rather them just maim each other? you got your wal mart and your internet forums why should you care if people are being killed and raped in some other country.

I never said you went there after 9/11, I said that you probably had some revenge inside because of 9/11. Semanthics, semanthics. You joined to help people that are not free? How's that? You ministered them english, economics, mathematics or whatsoever classes? You taught them to grow vegetables or to raise animals or to make woven tapestry? You bought them some medicine or clothes or books? No. You just invaded their country saying "I'm here to help" with your weapon around your arm. If someone with a gun offered their help, would it seem normal? Maim themselves? What for? You do a good job yerselves for that matter: you maim them and yerselves, top notch! And what is it to you? There's plenty of maimed homeless people all around the united states, so why go to another country when you should start to fix things INTERNALLY? Second time: I've been there, son, I know what it's like. Which doesn't mean s*** if you think you're playing some role in some game, because you're not. I was the same little puppet in their hands as you are now, maybe one day you'll see what I mean.

sorry i know it might seem crazy to you.. but some people actually do care about other peoples freedoms. i didnt just join to protect my freedoms and country. i joined to save the lives of other people like IRAQIS.

It's not that I don't understand, I JUST DON'T BELIEVE YOU. If you want to care about people's freedom, start with your fellow americans. You are not free. Is freedom something like having a house, a car, a gorgeous bird when you come home and a dog waiting on your porch? You may say you were raised to believe you are free, but that you are not. Maybe young enough to understand what I'm saying, but not free. And please, PLEASE stop trying to fool me and YOURSELF. If you really think you are protecting anyone's freedom, then you should go to school some more, or maybe even talk to a professional regarding your delusion. I preffer to call it naiveté, but then you would think I'm calling you a brat or something.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by Faustian Spirit]

Originally posted by DONNYxMC
.and yeah these people on these forums bashing our troops and havent even left our country or done anything for our country or been to a warzone and helped people can STFU.

I have been in the middle of a gangwar that left 9 dead bodies after a 4 hour standoff/gunfight.
I have held a loved one while she breathed her last breath.
I left the country two days ago.
I do things for my country everyday because I live in it.

My opinion valid yet or do I have to go to Iraq?

edit to add: I in no way believe any of the above makes my opinion any less or any more valid than anyone else.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by Adevoc Satanae]

reply to post by DONNYxMC


It matters, because that is news the rest of the world needs to hear about. Stories like this cannot be shielded. I don't doubt for a moment that you have been witness to and involved in things that we would think unimaginable, but I am not spitting in your face, but engaging you in conversation. If you didn't want to talk about it, you wouldn't be posting on ATS. The unfortunate side to this is the fact that hundreds of thousands of innocent lives have been lost to a senseless war. It isn't your fault and the politicians are to blame. Your opinion is as valid as mine, there is no need to carry the war over to this thread.

delete

[edit on 14-8-2010 by Wolfenz]

reply to post by Faustian Spirit


give me a break. you dont know me or my beliefs. you just sit behind a computer screen calling me "son" and "kiddo"

you people have lost your minds

Originally posted by Perplexity
reply to post by Adevoc Satanae

 

Honestly though,

Let me stop you right there. If you were being honest, you would not be jumping on the "stop attacking me" bandwagon and making things up I never said.

you want to say how bad the military is

Show me where I ever said such a thing.

and how you will never respect any of us,

Show me where I said such a thing.

why don't you come up with a solution rather than sit in your computer chair and play internet super hero?

Solution to what? The things you just made up? Give me a bit.

You act as if we don't need any form of military force,

You have seen my acting? Honest critique now. Did I run overboard in the second scene? Be honest, it wont hurt my feelings. It is how I learn.

Really though. Who's posts are you reading? What are you responding to? I have not said any of these things.

if that's the case then give me some alternatives.

Well it is not the case so I guess I am off the hook?

This guy is full of hot air, most likely because of a yearning for fame and glory that wasn't afforded to him for his services. I can almost guarantee that orders were not sent from above to shoot at [innocent] children. In fact, any soldier with even a small amount of humanity and experience wouldn't do it anyway. The vast majority of our soldiers are heroes, not child murderers. Sure there are some mistakes and even some bad apples but in which profession of young hot-heads are there not?

To me, it would appear that this guy is just looking for fame and maybe some sympathy to go along with it. This guy is either out-right lying, grossly exaggerating or he simply misunderstood the motivational speeches of his superiors. In fact, this is why the less experienced guys aren't in charge of issuing orders, because they have no idea what they are doing.

How do you get a team sized element of boys to defy logic and operate under fire? Besides training, you pump them up, make them feel invincible, as if they have the upper hand even if they don't and you do your best to tactically give the upper hand to them. Experienced military tacticians can easily pull off an advantage, even when one seems impossible to the grunt on the ground. Sometimes this grunt on the ground is not going to get the bigger picture but there is always a bigger picture and you just have to trust in your leadership and rely on your superior training. This guy obviously didn't get the bigger picture, or even see that there was one.

Just take his words with a grain of salt and realize that he obviously wasn't in a leadership role. What he is relaying, is only what he experienced through a very limited view of the situation. His experiences were extremely narrow in that bigger picture that always exists.

Lets just say that even if his unit was ordered to fire upon civilians, women and children. It is the responsibility of every soldier, to follow lawful orders only and they should have known better. Don't get me wrong, I have no doubts in mind that this guy either misunderstood orders, misconstrued them, or pieced together a reality from a narrow view of the bigger picture available to him at the time. In other words, it appears as if he filled in the details on his own, to create the reality that he falsely perceived.

Whether you like it or not and irregardless of whether it fits in with your theories about the US military, the vast majority of American soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines are good, moral human beings who are only doing what they believe to be right. Don't let this one guy's limited view of the battlefield, solidify your convictions of the participants on the battlefield and this goes for both sides of the conflict.

If what this guy said was true, I'd be the first one confirming it and fighting those injustices but they simply aren't and I can't even see how the picture he painted could play out in viable way. Sometimes people have a warped perception of their own reality, especially when their perception is limited in scope but that certainly doesn't make it real.

--airspoon


[edit on 14-8-2010 by airspoon]

reply to post by Adevoc Satanae


you have yet to make any valid points. all you have done is argue and pick apart our replies and proved nothing. you are arguing for the sake of arguing

Originally posted by Son of Will
reply to post by Reign02

 

Look, you shouldn't be there in the first place. I know you and 99% of the rest of the armed forces probably joined at least partly because of a sense of patriotism, but once you become aware that the war/occupation is ILLEGAL under US and international law, there is no good justification for you to stay there.

Yeah it's the leaders who send you there, but what does that make you? A willing puppet? That's absolutely terrible and I feel sorry for anyone who is aware of the corruption, but either too scared or too complacent to put up a stand and say no. You have the right to disobey an illegal order. Congress never declared war, therefore the war is illegal, therefore any order given as party to an act of said war is illegal.

This is why people are pissed at the people in military service - you are just as responsible as the leaders who sent you there. You don't just go murdering foreigners because someone convinced you that they are "the enemy". I know it's not a popular stance to take but I've never had much sympathy for people in the armed forces - if they had been smarter, and done some investigation into the politics like a reasonable adult would, then these wars never could have started to begin with.

WELL SAID !!!
Last time I checked there wasnt a draft going on !!!
You went there because you wanted to, if I signed up for something that major, Like enlisting in the Military and I knew there was a war on and it was a very big probability that I would be going to Iraq, I would be hell of sure to check out what the war was all about, and if it was even legal, before I would enlist.
My husband is a combat marine who served in Vietnam, there was a draft back then and there was no choice, those are the soldiers my heart bleeds for. Enlisting because you get a sign on bonus and schooling to go fight a meaningless war is not an excuse.....
Sorry if this offends anyone, its just the way it is. I have the guts to be honest about this.
The soldier that spoke out was not a traitor, he was just ill informed about this war before he enlisted, probably the same as half the other people that joined.


[edit on 14-8-2010 by dnvrliz]

I originally joined this forum because i question reality and i question science and things of the paranormal. alternative news is great and i enjoy hearing of news that is not usually mainstream. but after these attacks on me and other servicemen i will no longer be associated with this ATS board. you people should be ashamed. you are no better then the negative points you are tryin to make.

Originally posted by DONNYxMC
i dont know any exact number... around 50. what does it matter? there was thousands of worse things found. if its not on fox news its not important. im done. last reply. im moving on. yeah im hostile i have been spit in the face by people who live under the rights i defend and fight for. so you and all your unapreciating friends enjoy it. i hope you never have to pick up arms and defend your rights. its a horribel thing to have to live with. but a responsiblity someone must face.

I think you are addressing the wrong crowd with your Faux news comments on ATS but do you not think this story is important enough to tell? Because people want to know more about it you get mad and take your ball and go home? Why bring it up if people asking about it gets you mad? How can you seriously think a story like that would not be of great interest to people. I will get you on TV to tell your tale if need be. Please tell us more about it. If what you say is true, and even commonplace then I will help you get more support to fight those kinds of atrocities myself. You have to actually have a story to tell though.

See, about a year ago I was listening to Alex Jones. I heard him screaming about how CPS steals children to rape them. He went into a little story about how CPS takes children and puts them in basements in stacked cages where some are left to die and some are fed a hot dog now and then. In typical Jones fashion he added the usual "This is admitted, folks" and "This documented, proven, people! WAKE UP!" I never found any admission, documentation, or even a story like that anywhere in any media.

Sorry if that only makes me even more curious about the roots of your story.

Originally posted by PerplexityWhat have you sacrificed? What are you doing?

I'll just quote what really matters, since the blabbering before this question is absolutely redundant:

I have sacrificed a marriage, 2 sons, a healthy life. I went to a war that was a little different than your so called deprivation of freedom, you know why? Because where I went was part of my country, not a foreign country, so I was fighting for my country INSIDE my country, even though they were colonies. So basically you are in a mood for d***-swinging competitions and I'm not because it has nothing to do with "I am serving and you are not", but with WHAT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. I mean, this isn't even open for debate: IT IS IMMORAL, PERIOD. Have you ever wondered why most american troops are a little less than teenagers? Maybe it's because they're easier to manipulate and force feed them lies. Be good.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101 Sonny, they had paid for you to be fed, clothed and housed with their meagre salaries. Do not look down on others. If you think you had sacrificed for more than others and is unfair, then you are free to get out of the army and become a blue or white collar worker.

We are in this together as a society. We are brothers and sisters. Let us not bicker, for we are but pawns in the larger scheme of things by the elites, who loves most to see us divided.

The fact that evidence had been proven to show that killings of innocents by both sides goes to show how wrong our allegience had been for.

It's not you to be blame. The higher ups must be made accountable.

Amen.

thats just wat wikileaks want to expose to us...THE TROUTH...
all wat is going on should be public...

when classified...something is terrible wrong

[edit on 14-8-2010 by ressiv]

reply to post by DONNYxMC


ATS really isn't like that man, I'd suggest sticking around, if nothing else just to lurk. I've noticed on most threads concerning military there is an overwhelming trend of ignorance about enlisted personnel. Many of them hold us below them because they think we're brainwashed and stupid for joining. Let them think this, they are entitled to their opinions just as we are entitled to ours. Let them think they are better than us, let them think they know everything about us. I'm not here to make friends and I'm sure you aren't either, I'm here to learn and be informed.

This is a conspiracy website after all, of course the majority of the members won't support our mission.

Just on the radio was the news another Australian is coming home in a body bag from Afghanistan,despite this video and the actions of F-Troop and American Psycho in the chopper ones got to look at the bigger picture.

The Western world is up against a powerful ideology,these dont take years they take generations to overcome it took 70 years to rid Europe with communism,I believe with the US focus on instant gratification and results that it just does not have the patience or will to see it through there will be no unequivocal victory,the only solution in the short term is to get the bad guys to the negotiating table.Which means Afghanistan will still be a place with a lack of womens rights with primitives living with goats,there will be no renaissance there they do not want democracy or a western system.

I do know whats at stake there Afghanistan is slated to be a major transit centre for oil and gas pipelines from surrounding former socialist republics,theres the drug trade and recently estimated a trillion dollars of mineral wealth Iraq has its oil-its a high stakes poker game but one the powers that be will loose unless the Taliban co-operate,the best the Russians could achieve was relative security in major population areas but the countryside was still the wild west,that is the maximum America will achieve.The contents of this pararaph are whats being faught for not freedom,not terror the soldiers are pawns on a chess table being manuevered to win the jackpot for corporate greed.

reply to post by Faustian Spirit


The war of imaginationland?

Originally posted by Faiol
reply to post by Reign02

 

man, there are bad people everywhere in the world, in EVERY SINGLE GROUP


just because some people that may or not may be in a country are bad, that doesnt mean you can go into that country and kill a culture, kill a life style, kill part of society, kill everything they know

and by doing that, creating hate and more insurgents


so really, EVERYBODY gets abused every single day, but that doesnt mean it gives you the right to start shooting everybody, just because they are around the abusers ...

EXACTLY !!!
What the hell right does the US have to go to any country they choose and kill people ?
Leave these people alone, so what if they want to kill eachother over religion, thats their right !!!!
Could you just imagine if Iraqi soldiers showed up on our streets and started killing people because we were having a war over here between the hatfields and the mc coys.....would we stand for it ??? and how come they cant just do this ??? Why are they any different than us ???
The whole thing is just a bunch of crap, and like someone else said, the people that go for this crap are just SHEEPLE, ignorant as all get out !!!!
Why does the US have to butt into everyones business so much ??? maybe if we stayed home and took care of our own we wouldnt have millions of people out of work and our country running itself into the ground.
I think I have an idea.... probably because there is money to be made from WAR !!!!
Case closed !!!!

I understand why it leaves you speechless.

Same here.

Kudos 2 u.

reply to post by Nephi1337

I feel your pain my friend,its shocking i know. I seen a mother being killed by a israel solider on front of her two kids,broke my heart.
When the solider was asked if he felt bad,he said no im a good hebrew boy in a dirty land, im here for purifcation. SICK BASTARDS

I am a slave.
I have no rights.
Sometimes I have a privilege to be NOT beaten up by my masters because of my illusionary sense of freedom.
My children are slaves and their children will be slaves.
---
Evolution will eventually create the Perfect Slave. My grand, grand, grand, grand children will feel not only joy and happiness when being controlled, manipulated, exploited and treated like subspecies, but also feel elated when physically abused.
---
A dream of a Perfect Slave will be to be killed by torture by its master.