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How can we believe anything?

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posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 10:10 PM
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Hello Everyone,

I admit I am completely ignorant. I think I have a better understanding of the world than non-ATS types, but there is something not right. When I hear the news about the border, bank bailouts, the oil spill, or even celebrities I just don't believe any of it. Seriously, I wonder if some of the celebrities really died. I wonder if there really was a massive oil rig explosion (don't get me wrong, there may be oil in the ocean and on the beach, but what about the cause?). Likewise, it is hard to believe in TPTB, Bildeberg, population control tactics, or any other conspiracy. I feel as though there is a cloud of ignorance that will always be present. I don't believe text books, history reports, or anything else. I only believe what I see and feel. This question and uneasiness has arisen because so many points and beliefs on ATS are supported by facts that may be accepted, but are utterly unprovable. I am curious if anyone else has these feelings, and how they handle it. For those that believe in conspiracies, or even the news, what makes you sure? Am I missing something, or is this how everyone is on the inside?




posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by BenIndaSun
 


HI there -- you don't sound ignorant at all (imo)

You sound honest


You've asked the questions. All we can offer are our opinions, unfortunately. And opinions are as plentiful as grains of sand on a beach

Maybe we should consider the advice offered by eastern religions and sages when they advise us to let go of attachments ? And possibly included is our attachment, our quest, for 'truth' ?

Perhaps we should accept that 'truth' isn't concrete and simply let-go of the need to believe anything ?

I'm tending that way - finally. Been a long trip, though



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 10:25 PM
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HA. Thought this was a philosophy thread....dammit!

Anyway...I guess my answer is still the same. You gotta find what effects you the most I guess. Even after that you gotta go with what has the most evidence. Everything requires a stretch of the imagination, a little faith, whatever.

Take the creation of life. Was it God who created it in 6 days, or was it evolution that created in eons? I go with evolution, but that is just me. I am fully aware that my belief in evolution is the same as someones belief in creationism. Both are simply our explanation of unknowns.

They are all beliefs, and beliefs are just our conclusions we land on when we can't explain the world around us. Call me a nihilist, but I don't think anyone can truly prove or disprove anything, even reality as a whole, but hey, you are here, so you gotta deal with what you got, right? The reality or unreality of something is irrelevant. Can you escape it? No.

Sooner or later, time will tell.

- Einstein (In the world renown classic, Command and Conquer: Red Alert)


[edit on 13-8-2010 by SubPop79]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 10:42 PM
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This reminds me of Rene Descartes and his famous quote "Cogito Ergo Sum", which means "I think therefore I exist".

Basically Descartes was wondering exactly the same thing you are, he wanted to know what was "Real".

However there are many problems, for instance he realizes that everything he sees and knows to be "Real" could all be hallucinations. We could be a madman in an insane asylum hallucinating, or the Devil could have created an elaborate hoax for our senses to mislead us.

This causes all things to be doubted, but Descartes realized that there is one solid thing that there is NO doubt about.

And that is that he is a thinking being. He thinks. Because he knows that he is thinking, he knows that at least 1 thing exists, himself.

You are very clever to realize your own lack of knowledge, and that is the sign of true wisdom, I believe.

I myself try to constantly remind myself that I do not know anything as well, I only ASSUME that it's true.

You are right about all things being doubtable. I too find all things doubtable.

First hand witnessing of things, is harder to doubt since you saw it yourself. However even those things can be doubted still, eg: the insane man hallucinating or the devil's hoax.

But one thing is true. If you doubt something, than YOU exist. And that is the only real Truth we can know 100%.

Great thread I enjoy the topic.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 

Descartes was correct. If he existed. However, the question then presents itself, "What is the nature of my existence?". I could be a flesh and blood human sitting at my keyboard typing this post. I could be a computer program with a certain amount of self awareness. I could be in a loony bin rocking back and forth. I could be the star of a real life "Truman Show". I could be God taking a few days off and willed myself to forget who I really am and turn off my powers so as I could relax and let Gabriel and Jesus handle all those incessant prayers that JUST NEVER STOP.
I could be anything. If I exist at all. You might just be dreaming that you are reading this message. Because you can never know if I exist. Only that you do. One way or another.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by BenIndaSun
 


I know what you mean. But I usually have a sort of gut feeling/intuition about conclusions I'm coming to. I can tell when I'm close to the truth but I feel like I'm yet to really find it 100% on any topic, or the big picture.
"Love the man who seeks the truth, doubt the man who finds it"



posted on Aug, 14 2010 @ 12:38 AM
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It definitely can be difficult in determining what to believe. There's so many sides and opinions of everything how do you know what to believe? I often don't know what to believe and which side to take. I'm indecisive by nature, neutral and open minded, which isn't always as good of thing that people often say, in my opinion.

Science is always changing (a good thing) but can sometimes give feelings of accepting a lie and never knowing the truth as chances are it's going to be altered again. To what degree do you accept them?

Who tells the story best without any biased slant? CNN, MSNBC, FOX, the Post, the Record, the Chronicle, an anonymous blog? Does hearing the story first person even prove what to believe?

What about dreams? There's many opinions on how to interpret them and their actual purpose. Repressed memories? Fantasy playground? Organizing current thoughts? Even if you have a belief about them does it prove anything?

This changes everything. New discovery. Forget everything you were taught. Pick your headline, thread or story. These often make me question what I should believe. Who, what and everything.

So how and what do you choose to believe in? Even if you personally see something is it undeniable proof that you perceived it correctly? What's reality? Are we really here?

What feels right, makes logical sense and captures you emotionally when all else fails? That's what I usually use to assist in what's believable although it's certainly fallible and doesn't necessarily help as it often only brings more questions forward. Recently I wondered if in the last moments of life everything made sense. Every unanswered question. Every piece of conflicting information. Everything you weren't sure what to believe. I don't even know if I picked it up, or parts of it, somewhere that I don't remember. Regardless, it's an entertaining thought for me and comforting in ways. If I believe it enough there's a chance I'm simply setting myself up for disappointment when the time comes. Should I believe it? Will it make a difference? Does it matter? I don't know.



Originally posted by muzzleflash
...for instance he realizes that everything he sees and knows to be "Real" could all be hallucinations...for our senses to mislead us.

This causes all things to be doubted, but Descartes realized that there is one solid thing that there is NO doubt about.

And that is that he is a thinking being. He thinks. Because he knows that he is thinking, he knows that at least 1 thing exists, himself.


But by his own admittance, what if his senses are misleading him to only perceive that he's thinking?



posted on Aug, 14 2010 @ 12:49 AM
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There is nothing to believe. Either something is true or it isn't. How can you "prove" it to yourself, one way or the other? Well, try something like reading this article, which has impeccable documentation:

theyfly.com...

If you can perceive and understand the validity of this proof, then you may also want to read everything freely available at the site on which it's posted.

Of course if you do, you'll come to realize just how much has been deliberately hidden from you, how much you've been lied to, by the mainstream media, etc. - and not just by all of the "conspiratorial" interests that run you around in fruitless circles.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by TheTime]



posted on Aug, 14 2010 @ 01:01 AM
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Since when in history can any government be trusted?
if you think for one minute that they have your best interests in mind, you better think again?

you have to understand that the infrastructure of the government is departmentalized into so many divisions that it has a hard enough time just trying to keep itself from killing each other. every bodies got their hand out and like a feeding frenzy of rampant vampires trying to get on the kill.

too many hands in the till and not enough to go around. but club membership has its privileges. your just not in the club. your the bleeding sheeple the vampires are going to suck the life out of.

and by the way? its never going to change, only get worse until it implodes on itself so global checkmate can ensue......FACT



posted on Aug, 14 2010 @ 01:19 AM
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I understand your doubt..Let me add we are all questioning the same questions...especially here on ATS...We want answers ,,,proof...But most of all we want to know people are not lying to us...I wish this was a world were the truth was always told...but for me somethings we are told are obviously false.
example:9/11



posted on Aug, 14 2010 @ 01:48 AM
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A word of advice,,,

turn off the tv
turn off the computer
re energize.
Envision a better way.
Enjoy your abilities.
Share.



posted on Aug, 14 2010 @ 02:43 AM
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Another issue is the difficulty of discerning the agenda behind the presentations (be it words, film, or even pictures). We do live in a world where the truth exists but is habitually obscured.



posted on Aug, 14 2010 @ 02:54 AM
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nothing in this world is certain, so, the best thing to do is to ask the right questions, so we can get better answers

thats what I try to do ...



posted on Aug, 14 2010 @ 02:55 AM
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Google, the baloney detection kit. It, s on YouTube but can't post a link as this from an iPhone. It's pretty helpfull, not perfect but has definately helped me steer through the seas of BS floating around



posted on Aug, 14 2010 @ 03:19 AM
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reply to post by TheTime
 

I read your link and have seen that information before but I still have to believe it's true. I have to have faith and believe in the credibility of the impeccable documentation. Even if I were to research all involved parties of the article I still have to believe everything I read no matter how far back I research and how many credible sources I find. There's still trust I have to believe in every step of the way. So is it undeniably believable?

Loosely related but this reminds me of the story I'm sure everyone has heard of in some variation. The old guy down the street is a very nice person. He's neighborly, kind, friendly, happy and appears as though he's never harmed a fly. He's watched your house while you were on vacation and looked over your kids after school through the years. His wife has baked you the best pies you've had since you childhood and you've exchanged Christmas cookies for years. You've had beers with him on his front porch and listened to stories from the old days. He's given you sound advice on a variety of subjects and is trusted and valued. He's been to your family BBQ's and you consider him a close neighbor and friend. One day the police cars surround his property and crime scene tape is placed around the perimeter. The neighbors gather around to find out what happened and it turns out he bludgeoned his wife of 75 years to death. Everyone thought they knew him well and trusted him but no one ever believed that he could be capable of something as horrific as what he did.

There was belief of a person's character which was wrong. If the old guy was involved in the impeccable documentation should it change my belief on his credibility as an author as well as a person? To believe in people you have to know them but does anyone really know anyone?



posted on Aug, 14 2010 @ 07:12 AM
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Thanks for the thoughtful responses.


This reminds me of Rene Descartes and his famous quote "Cogito Ergo Sum", which means "I think therefore I exist".


I will remember that quote. Unfortunately it only works in one direction. There are some people that I wonder if they ever think, yet they most certainly exist.

Someone mentioned dreams. I have some of the most interesting dreams (I have sleep paralysis). They are the most intense sensations I ever feel, yet it is the least real thing that happens to me in the worldy view.


A word of advice,,,

turn off the tv
turn off the computer
re energize.
Envision a better way.
Enjoy your abilities.
Share.


Thanks for the advice. I lost the tv 3 years ago and could not be happier. The last time I saw tv, at families house, I was disgusted with the commercials, shows, everything. Tv is definitely fake. I would lose the internet but I need it for college. I read news and information about once a week, but I feel like I'm reading an interesting fictional short story, modern-day literature.

I am trying to re-energize but I feel like I have no time to think and be alone, which is what I want for a little while. I am 24 and have been in college and school my whole life, which I think is starting to drain the life out of me. As I get ready to begin another year of college, my "what is real" sentiments become even stronger. For the first time in my life I'm not looking forward to starting school this year.


I understand your doubt..Let me add we are all questioning the same questions...especially here on ATS...We want answers ,,,proof...But most of all we want to know people are not lying to us...I wish this was a world were the truth was always told...but for me somethings we are told are obviously false.
example:9/11


That is what I like about ATS. Although I don't believe all of the conspiracies, I know there are things I see that should cause every American(just saying because that's where I live) to scratch their head. I see chem trails, cc cameras everywhere, and forced vaccinations of people in my college (health students).

9/11 was actually the catalyst for my beginning of disbelief. I was in 9th grade when it happened. Until I was about 20 I believed everything that was said on the likes of CNN, Fox, newspapers, etc. One day I was watching the news and an anchor made a snide remark about someone being a 9/11 truther. I was curious what that meant and did a lot of research (google). I was convinced very quickly that 9/11 was committed by the government. Still sad and confused about that.


Science is always changing (a good thing) but can sometimes give feelings of accepting a lie and never knowing the truth as chances are it's going to be altered again. To what degree do you accept them?


I love science, one thing I feel that I understand, at least the parts that I study. Unfortunately I now see that much of science in America is a mere extension of the government. I attend one of the most highly NIH funded(top 20) health colleges. I used to think research was a nobel pursuit, now I see it is driven by politics and putting on false impressions to be awarded grants. This leads my professors to research what the government wants, and to publish what the government agrees with.


Descartes was correct. If he existed. However, the question then presents itself, "What is the nature of my existence?".


That is a logical question. I kind of feel like I am going through a phase, or change in life. It's as though the older I become and the more I experience, the less I think I know.

It is really nice to know there are other people that have similar feelings. Most of my classmates, although intelligent, have no idea why I say some of the things I do, and they cannot relate. One issue we tend to disagree upon is public health policies, I think public health is a mirage.

Bukowski put's it best:

You begin saving the world by saving one person at a time; all else is grandiose romanticism or politics


I am beginning to think the best way to enjoy life is by becoming introverted, not worrying or wasting time on things beyond the scope of my reality. And only share time and thoughts with a select few friends and family members. I don't know how possible that will be in our current society, which bothers and concerns me.



[edit on 14-8-2010 by BenIndaSun]



posted on Aug, 14 2010 @ 07:36 AM
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reply to post by BenIndaSun
 


Hi. My advice (maybe it's too late for this) is that you do as I did and devote several years to studying comparative mythology, comparative religion, comparative mysticism, parapsychology, psychology, philosophy. I hope you love reading. I have found them to be very useful in learning how to believe and how to disbelieve.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by Student X]



posted on Aug, 14 2010 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by Student X
reply to post by BenIndaSun
 


Hi. My advice (maybe it's too late for this) is that you do as I did and devote several years to studying comparative mythology, comparative religion, comparative mysticism, parapsychology, psychology, philosophy. I hope you love reading. I have found them to be very useful in learning how to believe and how to disbelieve.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by Student X]


I love to read! I'm actually very interested in philosophy. I don't know where to begin (probably Aristotle). Did you study officially such as earning a degree, or independently? I don't think either is bad/good compared to the other, just curious


For the others, I'm not religious, but learning about people and their religions may be interesting. As far as psychology, I do enjoy reading DSMV because of the cases and what some people have actually done.



posted on Aug, 14 2010 @ 08:06 PM
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Confirm things through as many sources as possible, find what sources are reputable, and what ones are not, mainstream sources are typically corrupt, use your intuition. Never stop looking for the truth, its always changing.



posted on Aug, 14 2010 @ 08:31 PM
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OP, I feel similar to you!

I always wonder how anyone can "without a doubt" be "certain" of anything just because if I have learned anything from ATS is that there is a distortion in all the information we get simply because we are exposed to so much.

It is funny to me that a poster will in one thread, claim how corrupt and un trustworthy the MSM is, then only a few days later post something coming from a MSM source. If you are on the thought train that the MSM is corrupt.

9/11, Oil Spill, War...they all have there mysteries and its something everyone will always have there opinions on. It is one of the few things I can't figure out, why do people care about being right so much? The events have happened, and the thing I think we should focus on is the consequences from those events that are affecting the NOW. I wonder if instead of all the people trying to "expose" the people responsible instead were to get together and fix something what could happen. For how much "intelligent thought" that goes on at ATS, not much intelligent action follows. Not saying that I am one to be organizing protests or anything but it would be nice if there was an official ATS get together to actually present a solution to our problems.

I try and combat this feeling by just living my life. Who is at the cause of these tragedies is something I just don't care that much about because they will get what they deserve. The more I hear about the NWO, False Flag, and WW3 I just want to puke, its starting to become obvious to me that the whole "Illuminati" thing is just another "false flag", headed by something we just don't have enough knowledge to comprehend. Don't get me wrong either though, there is something that has been holding humanity back from its true potential but realistically you aren't going to find out what it is on the internet.

Hopefully I stayed on topic and didn't lose anyone



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