Obama defends ground zero mosque plans

Originally posted by Intelearthling
You can't compare Timothy McVeigh to terrorists.

Wow, just wow. I would really like to hear more about how a domestic terrorist cannot be compared to any other terrorists. Do you suppose the babies in the day care center of the building he blew up applauded his political motivations? I cannot believe anyone would justify Tim McVeigh in their defense of Islamaphobia.

reply to post by stone7959


I could care less about the mosque being built. What I hate is seeing how people are against something they don't know anything about. Islam is not intolerable against any other religious belief.

listverse.com...
‘Kill the infidel’ is the phrase many people believe is the ideology that Muslims have towards the non Muslims. This, though, is not a correct portrayal of Islamic law. Islam has always given respect and freedom of religion to all faiths. In the Quran it says “God does not forbid you, with regards to those who fight you not for religion nor drive you away out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them, for god loves those who are just.” There are many historical examples of Muslim tolerance towards other faith. One such example was when the caliph Umar was ruler of Jerusalem from 634 to 644 AD. He granted freedom to all religious communities and said that the inhabitants of his city were safe and that their places of worship would never be taken away from them. He also set up courts that were designated to the non Muslim minorities. Whenever he would visit holy areas he would ask for the Christian patriarch Sophronius (pictured above) to accompany him.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
Terrorism is exactly what the name implies. To bring terrror in the hearts of entire populations.

The entire population has to be terrified for terrorism to work? Then what is the problem? What happened on 9/11 did not terrorize the ENTIRE population so I guess they were not terrorists?

reply to post by stone7959

I don't know why I even bother writing this. It is GOING TO HAPPEN.

Well I guess you have nothing to worry about. Because doesnt this one world govt, result in the second coming and thats what you are waiting for, right? So, the take over by Muslims is actually part of the grand plan and if you are against it, you are against what the Bible predicts.

If you think Muslims are taking over America, you are really out of touch. Our country is dominated by Christianity. This is FACT!

I am agnostic so I have no horses in any races. I think all organized religion is f'ed beyond belief. But our constitution provides the right for anyone to have their own freedom of religion.

Being against this Mosque is very hypocritical.

I have read up on Cordoba and I'm not really sure what you are afraid of, I'm going to assume its fear itself.

The Cordoba Initiative website has this at the top of their 'about us' page:

…War leaves no victors, only victims. … Mankind must remember that peace is not God's gift to his creatures, it is our gift to each other.

Maybe you can fill me in about what is so scary about Cordoba. Its a city in spain, once ruled by Muslims.

In the 10th-11th centuries Córdoba was one of the most advanced cities in the world, as well as a great cultural, political, financial and economic centre. The Great Mosque of Córdoba dates back to this time; under caliph Al-Hakam II Córdoba received what was then the largest library in the world, housing from 400,000 to 1,000,000 volumes.

Sounds terrible.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


Really? I wonder if Muslims would be so understanding if the shoe was on the other foot. Sensitivity is destroying this country. It's one thing to be tolerant, another to by someone a beer after they rape your sister. Give me a break...what about their poor little feelings. It makes me sick. I wonder how the families of the victims feel about their poor choice of locations. This is clearly a blatant slap in our face. Perhaps we should try building a massive christian church in the middle of Afghanistan or Iraq...I'm sure the friendly church goers would feel nice and safe every Sunday. What is happening to this country? I don't care if these people have no affiliation to the one's responsible for 9/11 or not. Where is their sensitivity and understanding. There is nothing like pouring alchohol on an open wound! This country has had it too easy for too long. Which is why the United States has gone from being the predator to the prey...we make it sooooo easy don't we. It won't be long before Russia and China gather the courage to test the waters and take what they want from us. Pathetic.

reply to post by lambs to lions


There are numerous of churches in Afghanistan and Iraq. Yes, there are numerous of Americans who are basically wimps. But they are not the reason this country is turning inside out. There are various reason as to why America is in the current state it is.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
reply to post by stone7959

 

I don't know why I even bother writing this. It is GOING TO HAPPEN.

Well I guess you have nothing to worry about. Because doesnt this one world govt, result in the second coming and thats what you are waiting for, right? So, the take over by Muslims is actually part of the grand plan and if you are against it, you are against what the Bible predicts.

If you think Muslims are taking over America, you are really out of touch. Our country is dominated by Christianity. This is FACT!

I am agnostic so I have no horses in any races. I think all organized religion is f'ed beyond belief. But our constitution provides the right for anyone to have their own freedom of religion.

Being against this Mosque is very hypocritical.

I have read up on Cordoba and I'm not really sure what you are afraid of, I'm going to assume its fear itself.

The Cordoba Initiative website has this at the top of their 'about us' page:

…War leaves no victors, only victims. … Mankind must remember that peace is not God's gift to his creatures, it is our gift to each other.

as long as we win..

Maybe you can fill me in about what is so scary about Cordoba. Its a city in spain, once ruled by Muslims.

In the 10th-11th centuries Córdoba was one of the most advanced cities in the world, as well as a great cultural, political, financial and economic centre. The Great Mosque of Córdoba dates back to this time; under caliph Al-Hakam II Córdoba received what was then the largest library in the world, housing from 400,000 to 1,000,000 volumes.

ya, maybe it worked 1000 f'n years ago! why are you eating too much floride?
Sounds terrible.

we just roll back time for you people.
what happened to 5 times a day prayers?
you really think you can hold a job ? lol.

sorry boss! gotta pray!

Originally posted by lambs to lions
It's one thing to be tolerant, another to by someone a beer after they rape your sister. Give me a break...what about their poor little feelings.

The people that attacked us on 9/11 are not the people building this mosque. It would be more like buying a beer for a person with a car after some other person with a car raped your sister.

reply to post by lambs to lions

I wonder if Muslims would be so understanding if the shoe was on the other foot. Sensitivity is destroying this country. It's one thing to be tolerant, another to by someone a beer after they rape your sister.

Your analogy is weak at best. A handful of extremists who happen to belong to a certain religion did something terrible. That does not mean that they represent that entire religion or the people who belong to it. By your standard I should fear all Christians because some extremists have also done terrible things.

Perhaps we should try building a massive christian church in the middle of Afghanistan or Iraq...I'm sure the friendly church goers would feel nice and safe every Sunday.

You are right that it probably wouldnt go over very well. But I think we are better than that. I think this country should be more understanding to religions diversity.

Do you think we should amend the constitution to make exceptions for certain religions? Should we take out the freedom of religion section completely. Or should we say freedom of Christianity?

I don't care if these people have no affiliation to the one's responsible for 9/11 or not. Where is their sensitivity and understanding.

The people who are building the Mosque are not affiliated with terrorists. So why should they feel guilty or the need to be sensitive? I see you are from Oklahoma, if someone from Oklahoma commits a terrible crime should I shun and discriminate against you just because you are from that state? Should I demand that you be a little more sensitive and understanding to the Texas Longhorns during football games?

You are making casual connections from Islam to terrorist. Many Muslims in the Middle east wear sandals, maybe that is the actual connections. Bingo, i got it. that is the true conspiracy.

Dont trust people in sandals.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
reply to post by lambs to lions

 

I wonder if Muslims would be so understanding if the shoe was on the other foot. Sensitivity is destroying this country. It's one thing to be tolerant, another to by someone a beer after they rape your sister.

Your analogy is weak at best. A handful of extremists who happen to belong to a certain religion did something terrible. That does not mean that they represent that entire religion or the people who belong to it. By your standard I should fear all Christians because some extremists have also done terrible things.

Perhaps we should try building a massive christian church in the middle of Afghanistan or Iraq...I'm sure the friendly church goers would feel nice and safe every Sunday.

You are right that it probably wouldnt go over very well. But I think we are better than that. I think this country should be more understanding to religions diversity.

Do you think we should amend the constitution to make exceptions for certain religions? Should we take out the freedom of religion section completely. Or should we say freedom of Christianity?

I don't care if these people have no affiliation to the one's responsible for 9/11 or not. Where is their sensitivity and understanding.

The people who are building the Mosque are not affiliated with terrorists. So why should they feel guilty or the need to be sensitive? I see you are from Oklahoma, if someone from Oklahoma commits a terrible crime should I shun and discriminate against you just because you are from that state? Should I demand that you be a little more sensitive and understanding to the Texas Longhorns during football games?

You are making casual connections from Islam to terrorist. Many Muslims in the Middle east wear sandals, maybe that is the actual connections. Bingo, i got it. that is the true conspiracy.

Dont trust people in sandals.

too bad guy, let the others come up to our level first.

don't drag me down bro!

reply to post by Intelearthling

It's well known, and the Muslim community will not deny this, that Islam is anti-Western culture. Their motive, no matter how moderate a Muslim may seem, is to destroy Western culture and impose Islamic law.

Is that just like All Christan are supposed to destroy non - believers as well?

or that they're supposed to hate "fags" or any one of the many contradictions of the Bible?

You confuse actual reality with what you WANT reality to be.

It happens a lot when you're an unworthy bigot.

[edit on 13-8-2010 by Snarf]

reply to post by Adevoc Satanae


No it's not. Imam Rauf, who is the driving force behind the Cordoba mosque calls America an accessory to the crime that was the 9/11 attacks. So it's our fault that the cowardly terrorists murdered thousands of defense-less civilians. I guess we just had that one coming. Yeah, he is sooo forward thinking. He is getting praise for his efforts to "bridge the gap" between the middle east and the west. BS. He declined to comment on whether or not he felt that HAMAS is a terrorist organization. If you want to practice your religion then go ahead, but show some respect and do it somewhere that won't incite anger. Have we forgotten? Nope, they won't let us and they are loving how accomodating we are.

reply to post by fooks


Of course you can choose to break it down into specifics. However, it's not a black and white issue. Just because there are laws protecting and allowing their freedom to practice wherever they choose doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. There are many things that I can do or say to someone that is perfectly legal. But that doesn't mean I should. If they are truly concerned with coexisting and making progress, then don't you think they could choose to do it in a different way? I think it is not only irresponsible, but sad.

Originally posted by lambs to lions
reply to post by Adevoc Satanae

 

No it's not. Imam Rauf, who is the driving force behind the Cordoba mosque calls America an accessory to the crime that was the 9/11 attacks. So it's our fault that the cowardly terrorists murdered thousands of defense-less civilians.

Since when does saying something you do not like equal killing people? In the America I live in, we have the right to say things people might not want to hear. That does not make us guilty of murder.

I guess we just had that one coming. Yeah, he is sooo forward thinking. He is getting praise for his efforts to "bridge the gap" between the middle east and the west. BS. He declined to comment on whether or not he felt that HAMAS is a terrorist organization.

Oh no! My grandmother declined to comment when I asked her about HAMAS as well. Freakin ter-err-ists! Oh wait, I still do not see how this equates committing mass murder.

If you want to practice your religion then go ahead, but show some respect and do it somewhere that won't incite anger.

I am a Satanist in living in rural America. There is no place that my religion does not incite anger out of ignorance and fear but I have a right to practice and NO OBLIGATION TO BE SENSITIVE TO ANYONE. You do not have the right to not be offended by my religion or where I choose to practice. Sorry but that is how it works.

Have we forgotten? Nope, they won't let us and they are loving how accomodating we are.

Who is? All 1 billion + Muslim terrorists the world over?

reply to post by Snarf

Is that just like All Christan are supposed to destroy non - believers as well?

or that they're supposed to hate "fags" or any one of the many contradictions of the Bible?

Yea, but they stopped beheading and stoning them.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Yea, but they stopped beheading and stoning them.

Now they use rifles and fertilizer bombs.

[edit on 13-8-2010 by Adevoc Satanae]

reply to post by lambs to lions


I'm agnostic and I think its BS that religions get to operate tax free. From my perspective I see Christians doing things that I deem to be insensitive and wrong. But as long as they are not breaking the law they have the right to do so.

There was a KKK rally in a nearby town not too long ago. I think it is sick and disturbing that people actually have this much hate. But they were protesting peacefully and within the law. So they have the right to do so. I dont agree with their message but I agree with their right to speak their minds and hold a peaceful protest.

The desire to have a free country, requires you to understand that my definition of freedom might be different from yours. Freedom means freedom for all.

reply to post by Adevoc Satanae


I have to admit, you make some valid points. I'm not one that gets offended by much of anything. I agree that it is their right, and obviously if someone has a problem with it then its basically tough #. However, I feel like it is counter productive. There is a million places they could have chose for that mosque. Yes, Islam has a massive following, but they are largely misunderstood in this country. I would go as far to say that a large part of our population despise them. Is it largely due to ignorance? Yes. Still, ground zero is a monument to the thousands that were murdered by an extremist group of members of Islam. Whether that is fair to all muslims doesn't matter. This country is very tolerant, and understanding. As Americans, shouldn't they also represent those values. And I don't think that this is as innocent as a right to religious freedom. I think there is something of a celebration of a victory at work here.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by lambs to lions]

how does that old saying go?


"don't tread on me"?




islam is not just a religion, you can't separate it from how it wants you to live your life, dress, oh ya burkas are cultural, ban them.
political doctrine much?


sharia law, vigilantes in another law system, illegal.

no gur-an-tee this place will be open to all.

fu, the majority don't want it, they want to do it anyway, JEEZE! martyr much!



like rambo said, "you want jihad? i'll give you a jihad you won't believe" lol!

Sorry, folks, but this whole debate is fiddling while Rome burns. Its a non-issue, just like the politics of gay marriage, or "family values" in the 80s, etc etc...just nonsensical cultural games that can be played all day and all night to no purpose whatsoever because the concepts involved are too freaking nebulous.

Argue about this until the cows come home...all it does is tie everyone's brain up in little knots and waste precious mental energy. Inflaming passion that obscures clear sight.

TBTB are glad to see people tire themselves out getting all worked up about little symbolic non-issues. That's what good little sheep do. After all, when you are all tuckered out after a long day of glorified parlor games, you won't be able to ask the REAL questions or take on the REAL issues -- the economy collapsing, war fervor rising all over the world, energy and food security issues, extreme weather events and other natural (or perhaps unnatural) calamaties, troop movements by various nations, geostrategic resource politics, and so forth.

But that's OK, don't spend any precious time trying to unravel the big questions. Instead spend your energy arguing endlessly about a building project on some land where something happened a decade ago.

[edit on 8/14/10 by silent thunder]