Economic meltdown in Ireland

I am in Scotland. The past few days I have been camping up in hills, and because of poor radio reception I ended up listening to the only radio station I could find which was RTE Radio 1 from Ireland.

I was amazed and appalled to hear of the plight of the numerous callers to this radio station. Everyone complaining of the economic state of affairs. People losing their jobs, having no income, being deep in debt, becoming suicidal, planning to leave the country.

Callers are swearing with anger and frustration, they are calling for revolution, they are asking people not to pay taxes and debts.

They are blaming the banks and the politicians.

Last time I was in Ireland, maybe 5 years ago the place was booming and I was envious.

Now the bubble has well and truly burst and the place is in crisis.

One woman says she has nothin but teabgs and a half a pint of milk.

It's shocking to listen to.

I have listened to todays programme and yesterdays programme which are available online.

I also noticed this article in the press on the same subject.

Is this a sign of whats coming for the rest of us.

Anyone from Ireland can you confirm how bad things really are.

I am not in Ireland but I think I have a hunch of why they are so angry.

Other than the current economic crisis that has really slammed Ireland they are furious that their government bailed out the banks, spent like crazy and are now cracking down on public spending harshly ~ Austerity.

Mix that in with what Ireland had, the Celtic Tiger Economy and the frustration and anxiety is very deep there.

But I would still love to hear what the Irish have to say about this.

I'm listening to the podcast whilst I write this and it is getting me Madder and madder...

My first thought is that the Banks , who are PROFITING again and paying themselves BIG rewards because of the great business sense they have shown !!!???!!!
I do not really think the penny has dropped because they don't see the individual issues and hardships that everyday PEOLPE are suffering !

BUT the banks are then told to lend more now which surely will be counter-productive in a few years when (and if) we get there and the cycle and debt burden has to be paid off...
Currently the Banks are trying to get bad debts or debts in to balance the books but then look to lend more out.......

We have NOT EVEN STARTED yet to correct the overspend of the previous decade.... Ireland has started their Austerity measures and people don't like it !!! In the UK we are ABOUT to start this and I think the general population does not have a clue about what needs to be done...

The guy on the radio has just said that he will NOT pay his debts but again if that is the case then if we all do that it will be a downward spiral......... people need to understand that we as a society are OVERPAID and CONSUME more than we need.......

There is a day of reckoning coming and you need to be aware and able to cope....

Cheers Bigyin for these links, I think this is a forewarning of what the UK will be getting into early next year and onwards !!!!

Regards

PurpleDOG UK

Same as the whole of the UK. I don't want to belittle their plight but I know how they feel. These little Islands of ours are falling apart.

Well we all remember Irelands 'NO' vote on the Lisbon Treaty right? There was plenty of speculation at the time that they would be made to regret that little bit of rebellion.

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


Wide-Eyes

It is not the same as the rest of the UK..

The UK has NOT STARTED it's austerity yet whereas Ireland has...........

We've yet to see any pain and don't forget it was the previous Government that has put us there ..


Still listening to the radio program and the general theme is for rebellion and Non compliance...... sounds very serious !!

Regards

PurpleDOG UK

Something has gone seriously wrong I was in Ireland in 1998 and it was the envy of Europe with a strong currency and economy,its a shame it is a beautiful country.

Thanks, OP, great thread. Like the other members I'm still listening to the RTE podcasts. But one thing which rings true with me is small business cashflow problems. I'm in UK and help run a small A/V business. We've banked with RBoS for over 20 years with no problems whatever, apart from the occasional bounced cheque from errant customers (and that's just part of business life unfortunately).

But a few weeks ago RBoS called in our company overdraft. We use the overdraft to pay suppliers, it goes up, it goes down, all depending on how our finances are going. They gave us no warning whatever that they were calling it in ... all in it came to £14,000+ and they gave us 7 days to get it paid.

That we managed to do by raiding our "rainy day funds", money we'd put past for future investment. So about a third of that money has now gone. Another third is now being used as a float to cover our suppliers. But our suppliers are now tightening their credit terms, two of them have cut our credit limits from £20k to £10k ... and we've never paid them late ... ever. But they're applying that new policy to all their credit customers.

And that's now limiting the amount of work we can commit to. Less work means less profit, less profit means (now) negligible investment. But it also means we've had to cut the hours of our apprentice ... because we simply don't have the work to keep him gainfully employed 42 hrs per week. We haven't cut his wages ... yet. But we can't keep paying him full time wages for part time employment.

So much of those podcasts ring true in the UK too. Can't thank the OP enough for posting them, appreciated, I take no comfort in the thought that so many others are in the same boat as us. But at least it isn't just us ... if you know what I mean.

When you have an economy that grew at the rate Ireland did for a decade they are bound to go crashing down HARD.

Let's put this in a real life scenario. Let's say we have 5 cars...

UK economy
Irish economy
US economy
French economy
Estonian economy

Okay. So we know the two fastest growing were Ireland and Estonia, the two slowest were France and the UK, the US was moderate. Now let's act as if these economies are like racing cars.

Their speed is as follows.

UK = 135 mph
Ireland = 205 mph
US = 160 mph
France = 105 mph
Estonia = 215 mph

Now let's say there is an unexpected pothole in the road up ahead that they can't see. As they are speeding ahead Estonia hits it first and loses control and is in serious trouble. Followed by Ireland who hits the pothole and so on and so on.

Judging by their speed which ones do you think will be hurt the worst? Which ones will lose control the most?

Of course speed is not the only determining factor in the loss of control, you also have to add other factors such as...

Response
The stability of the car
The 'foundation' of the car

Everyone who has taken and passed mathematics class could tell you which ones would be expected to take the worst impact.

The conclusion is, most of the time The bigger the Boom, the bigger the Bust

Ireland has sold its soul to a decade of decadence.

It is now bankrupt. Serves them right for choosing money over morality!

reply to post by LeBombDiggity

LeBombDiggity

Almost finished the first podcast, about an hour I think....... There's now someone talking about killing herself... this is a little serious I think...

Your example is one I have heard from others too... The banks are scrambling trying to reign in debt on their books which can take all types I guess...

I had a credit card from Virgin which I never use but 'had' just in case and that has now been closed..... by Virgin to lower their 'possible' risk I guess..

This is going to be more and more and people will start to see in the UK that credit will become less and less regardless how good your credit rating is..... ... as I have said above, we in the UK regardless of how fast or slow our car was traveling has still yet to feel the PAIN of paying back our good years..

What really upsets me is that the Banks will congratulate themselves over the next few years for a JOB well done and alot of those in power and in the public sector (higher management levels) will retire early on BIG benefits which you and I will be paying for , for a long time !!!!

There's a divide opening in our society.............

Regards

PurpleDOG UK

I have been viewing the posts here on ATS for some time and when i read this thread i decided i would join up and share a bit of the back story to the anger people here in ireland are feeling! Im Irish by the way!

So...where to start, ok as the end of the celtic tiger was approaching the various big banks over here were giving out massive loans to almost anybody with some land that they wanted to develop. as a result many houses, hotels etc sprang up throughout the country. Then the recession hit and said developers along with pretty much everyone connected with the construction industry lost their jobs.

The banks went down the toilet, the government claimed to be as shocked as this as everyone else and very quickly a massive bailout was organised for the banks. Then when all that money was spent a second bailout was offered, along with the creation of a toxic bank called NAMA which would effectively buy the bad assets off the bank in order to free up cash to get money moving in the economy again.All at the taxpayers expense i might add, this will see our great grandchildren still paying for these mistakes.

In the middle of all this scandals came to light of the heads of said banks giving themselves raises etc, as did heads in many government owned bodies. All while the ordinary workers had harsh new taxes imposed, college fees are being introduced and public sector workers had their pay and pensions cut and many more lost their jobs and have emigrated.
But on top of all that the story gets worse still, our politicians still refuse to give up their lavish expenses and salaries, have more holidays then they do working days and travel around the country in helicopters and have their state cars meet them at their destinations. And oh yes it also came to light that the government knew well in advance of the banking crisis but just did nothing.

A revolution is well overdue in my opinion!

reply to post by cbarron


cbarron

I'm listening to the second podcast now and I have to agree with you... The public sentiment is one of rebellion and revolution... People are MAD,really mad and as you suggest if the Government people and politicians 'carry on' as they have been, as well as the banks then I can see Public frustration and disorder taking over in Ireland.....

I honestly did not think public anger was as bad as it IS !!

Just noticed this whilst listening..... only 1 million people BUT it is an illustration of how some people have to juggle monies to manage lifestyles or just basic living expenses.....

www.bbc.co.uk...
Regards

PurpleDOG UK

[edit on 13-8-2010 by PurpleDog UK]

reply to post by cbarron


That sounds pretty serious.

Welcome to ATS by the way. Any questions ? Feel free to ask.

What you just said happened here ( the Netherlands ) as well. Banks almost fell get a bailout from tax payers money, the nations debt goes up. Which isn't such a bad thing if we would not be paying massive loads of interests. They plan to cut billions, still they spend it just as easy.

Todays papers said the Dutch economy grew 2.1 %.
Ireland however is an isolated community without a strategic port and so on.

We have also voted no at the referendum for a European constitution. We however... We did not get the chance to say no again... Our prime minster-president signed the Lisbon treaty without taking notice of the Dutch no... Without even trying to get a yes. Totally ignoring the wish of the people. Apparently nobody cares enough to make a difference...

At least the Irish show more spine then we have.

Originally posted by Breifne
Ireland has sold its soul to a decade of decadence.

It is now bankrupt. Serves them right for choosing money over morality!

We were merely following the example of other European countries. Here we call it "falling into line with Europe", the treasured goal of every fawning PC Irish liberal.

Welcome to the new world order.
the clampdown is upon us all.
reagan and thatcher remember?
oxford trained /rhodes scholar, william clinton
add his ambitious wife to the plot.
now the dynasty carries on with the merger of his child
with a goldman sachs crime family.
bush the 1st got impatient and turned one of his cia lone gunman
loose on his boss..makes sure his witless son gets to power-
and here comes his soulmate, tony blair.
as lovely a couple as reagan and thatcher..
as thick as thieves. and bent on turning us into serfs.
SERF CITY HERE WE COME.
the story of ireland is the story of us all.
DISARMED- DISMANTLED -DESTITUTE -DESPERATE
yet the war machine is well oiled , always fueled up
and lurching forward to victory..
over our dead bodies.
we are monitored by the satellite/guard towers
controlled by television programming.
and the G20 boot lickers are paraded around-
and we all get a taste of the baton- eh?
THEY ALL CROW ABOUT THE NEW WORLD ORDER
in australia, canada, usa, britian..
and allah help the poor hadji that gets in our way.
as they tear apart the earth and sea.
poisoning you and me..
Douglas Hotchkiss
top dog of squat-church of the later dude saints.



[edit on 13-8-2010 by p51mustang]

Once the government and the people realize they can print themselves money, hell comes for their due.

It started with the government paying themselves outrageous pay. Then they gave themselves huge pensions. Then to keep the flow going, they had to extend the money train to the people.

Well, you are at the end result. You cannot have a fiat currency AND just inflate the supply indefinitely. The money becomes worthless or you put yourself into a debt hole that there is NO way to climb out.

The world is beginning to see that the debt holes can NEVER be paid off.

Time to go back to what worked. Commodity based currency and NO fractional reserve banking.

Fiat debt systems CANNOT be sustained. The only way it worked for as long as it did, is the exponential growth of taxpayers. Once a stagnant population growth occurs, this is what happens. That is why the US has allowed such a crazy immigration policy. The US was trying to maintain the pyramid scheme.

Welcome to reality. Anyone on the government payroll will have to COMPLETELY lose their benefits, pensions etc to even ATTEMPT to pay off the debts. Of course THAT will never happen.

Time to write off the debts and start over. And MAYBE this time, you will keep the power out of the control of the banks and government?!

[edit on 15-8-2010 by saltheart foamfollower]

I have to admit to not being surprised by the sentiment flowing from Ireland and the desperation people are feeling, and have commented a few times that we are creating a similar situation to the one that led to the swing riots of the 1830s.

The swing riots are one of those topics glossed over in our history books, instead choosing to deal with the Tolpiddle martyrs while ignoring the foundation of even that lies in the Swing Riots a few years before.

How similar does this sound? The poor drowning in debt and underemployment venting their rage on those that caused the situation, writing letters and threatening the lives of the rich and wealthy bent on increasing their wealth at any cost!

The scale of the open rebellion that took place generated some 1000+ riots in under a year in the South East alone, and to be honest I feel that we will see riots again on that scale if the Gov and banks do not start investing in wealth creation..

If they don't then we will see (IMHO) the same desperation being reported in Ireland reported everywhere, and like the 1830s that desperation only ends in one course of action.

Ireland is a fundamentally poor country that has suffered a brain drain as far back as I can remember.

During the boom years there were many mushroom business. A mushroom business was one that received generous tax breaks for five years. Of course just before the five year period expired the business moved somewhere else. Ireland has an educated workforce also.