An open message to you all "Since when did this website become.....

Originally posted by Astyanax
Perhaps this is because you share it. Voyez:

That doesn't make an awful lot of sense.
How would sharing an emotion make any difference to whether I spotted it or not ?

If anything, I'd be more likely to spot it, as I would possible recognise some of the signs.

I haven't spotted any ''hate'' on ATS, because I am not privy to the poster's emotional disposition while posting it.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Your parents, wife and children were murdered by a gang of violent thugs. You saw it happen. There were dozens of other witnesses. There is absolutely no question that it was done, or who did it. In fact, the thugs were caught and put in gaol.

Sorry, but this is tilting slightly towards an ''appeal to emotion''.

The problem is that you're using your own opinion that something is self-evident or inarguable to argue against other people's opinions that it's not.

I can't see too much difference between the premise of Holocaust deniers, and people that say that the US government orchestrated the 11th of September terrorist attacks, to gain sympathy and justification for invading Afghanistan and Iraq.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Then along I come, and say to you, 'Ya boo sucks, it's all a lie, nobody murdered your family, you're just saying that to gain the world's sympathy and various other advantages.'

Would I do that if I didn't hate you? I might if I was mad, I suppose.

Again, take the example of the 11th of September attacks, and some of the more far out theories that abound around the events.

The ''no-planes'' theory is denying that people were even aboard the flights.

Can it really be logically argued that people who support this idea are doing so out of ''hate'' towards the passengers on the planes ?
I don't think so.

Yet, it's exactly the same scenario as you have posted about denying the fact that people's loved ones died in the respective atrocities.

It seems more insensitive, than hateful, on the face of it.

Originally posted by Astyanax
It is a slight upon every other race, and is therefore inherently hateful. Did you think inter-ethnic relations are some kind of rah-rah football match?

No, it's not inherently hateful, nor is it necessary a slight on every other race.

Again, we're not privy to the emotions of someone when they post anything. Interpretation of text can vary between people that read it.

What if, hypothetically, one ethnic group was , on average, superior in certain departments to others ?
Should we suppress the ''truth'', all in the name of ''inter-ethnic'' relations ?

Is that not intellectually dishonest ?

I'm assuming that white people, on average, are superior to Congolese pygmies at the High Jump.

Are you seriously saying that my above observation is inherently hateful towards Congolese pygmies ?
Or was it an emotionless observation of the truth on that particular matter ?

Originally posted by Astyanax
The first is not; it is an opinion. The second is a lie, everybody knows it is a lie, and therefore repeating it is merely a provocation. Nobody would do it unless they were (1) filled with hatred for homosexuals, (2) mad or (3) really, really stupid and ignorant.

Once again, it's you that appears to be letting your emotions cloud rational judgement of this issue, with your pre-conceived notions on the emotional motivations that someone would have, to post a certain comment.

It's not a lie. It's only your opinion that it is.

Abnormal is defined as ''deviating from the normal or average'', which appears to be applicable to minority sexualities.

Deviant is defined as ''deviating especially from an accepted norm''. So it rather depends on the individual's take on whether homosexuality is an ''accepted norm'' or not.

Neither of those two comments are ''a lie'', and neither are inherently ''hateful''.

We do not know what emotion would be behind a poster saying these things.
It may be hate; then again, it may not.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Hatred is often indistinguishable from stupidity and ignorance.

I agree, it sometimes is. So, why would someone automatically and illogically conclude that someone's post is down to ''hate'', rather than any other possibilities, including stupidity or ignorance ?

It's irrational to guess what someone's motivation or emotional state behind posting is.


We do not know whether someone's opinion is motivated by hate, unless they explicitly inform us of this fact !













[edit on 17-8-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]

Quite agree. I have said before and I still believe (NB BELIEVE NOT FACT !! dig dig at some ATSers) that this site is the consolidation of all the wacky weird and crazy site visitors. Why be a nutter on a site of 10 when you can spew forth with an audience of millions!

Quite how you filter the OP's worthy of posting and those who like the sound of their own voice (or word) I have no idea. Tricky one.

The aggression by some contributors is due to the anonymity. They can be "very" brave thousands of miles away hiding behind an avatar. Now if the same "arguments" were made in public, a pub for example, I doubt many of them would see tomorrow!!!!!

Do you think there is so much hate on this site because people thought once Barack Obama was elected that this country would become some type of non racist utopia? And it didnt. There was no change.


Rember when all those people in DC were crying with hapiness that Barack got elected, like he was the second coming of MLK Jr? I think they were expecting a Bill Cosby type pesident. Instead they got another gangster, different gang.


To me those were tears of happines just because he was black, and that "they" came full circle.


And minorities still cry racism.

I think people just have "I'll give you somthing to cry about" attitude.

I know I do.

reply to post by Frankenchrist


What a pathetic thought though, shows you why people vote, they don't look at the true manifesto.

It's "i'll vote for him because he's good looking" or "seems better than bush", or "i'll vote for him because I'm black and i can relate to him"

Once people educate themselves in politics and affairs, only then can we start to see a transparent goverment where democracy actually works to start a brighter tommorow, a brighter future

but what a said state of affairs it is now, and will be for some time to come.

reply to post by indigothefish


Indigo, I totally agree with your reply, it is SPOT ON.

A great example of this "disinfo agent" infiltration on ATS can be seen in the thread about the school district trying to enter a parent's private home. In this thread, you'll see replies from several posters ridiculing the OP as being "paranoid" or have some "mental issue" or being "shady" just because this person rightfully wants to maintain their privacy and not allow harassment with people banging on their door without a search warrant!

DISINFO AGENTS: BE GONE. YOU'RE NOT WELCOME HERE. Your days are numbered because the Evil Empire running this planet is on its LAST LEG.

Couldn't agree more OP. This site has changed, it once was a place for interesting debate and a great read regarding well researched cases by other members. Now its just a place for ppl to wind each other up.

A great thread will only last a few posts before a slanging match breaks out.

I suppose this is what happens when things grow and become more popular, kinda like a rock band selling out.....

In which I must add once Robbie Williams let himself become know that he use's this site many ppl (mainly) girls joined, having no interest in this subject whatsoever. They just made statements which were pretty stupid hoping he may notice what they had written and then look at there pic which they posted as there avatar.

I think this didn't help the site at all, it diluted it with vanity.

I guess we will just have to remember the good old days eh!

O.K. Assume I am going along with everything you say until...whoops!
I'm not sure I heard you correctly.
Did you actually suggest that no thread should be allowed that criticizes Israel?
Forgive me. I seem to be loosing the thought here somewhere.
Are you suggesting Israel is incapable of error?
Or are you suggesting Israel, should it commit an error, should not be called to account for it? That no one should mention it? Discuss it? Start a thread about it?
Pause for a moment. I am trying to get my head around this....
No threads that criticizes Israel.....
O.K. I concede. I give up.
Why?
Why no threads that criticize Israel. Enlighten me.

its very simple, the more something becomes public, the more hate and bickering comes with it.

Have you ever seen a croud do something very logical ? the more people there are the less you get. That's just the way things are.

I hope it helps.

I can see what you are saying, and though ATS is a great website, not everyone here is going to be fair or intelligent for that matter. It's a shame to come across threads that are hateful or racist, but there are a lot of people that are hateful and racist, and they have every right to speak their mind. A while back I stopped visiting this website because I couldn't believe some of the topics I was reading. I would get so angry at ignorant racist comments, that I would respond in an angry manner, therefore fighting hate with hate. I've come to realize that there are people who don't really know what they are talking about on here, or just want to hurt other people because they are angry. The only thing we can do is stand up for what we believe in, and if possible, avoid hateful or racist rant threads altogether.

There is a unique tool being used that can influence human behaviour towards baseic insticts, slowly a portion of humans will lose thier ablitiy to think for themsevles, so thier behaviour will almost seem backwards, as they turn against thier fellow man due to skin color and even the oppisite sex because thier inferiour minds think they are better.

Its a very sad situation, although i dont know the case, it could be the media working its ass off or even evolution trying to rid its own creation, it could even the the "elites" trying to make a perfect world for themsevles, even still a product of greed, how does one control thier based insticts?

There isnt much you can tell someone to do, but merely hang on to who they are, to what they hold true, to those they care about and those whom they havnt met but still care, the only way to combat this effect is to hold true to postive strong emotions you have expierced, or something like that to be honest i was kinda just rammbling

reply to post by Anthony1138


You were doing great until you threw in the line "their inferior minds" which seems to imply that YOU possess a superior mind capable of distinguishing between the two.
Then you justified the statement by the simple fact that they believed they were better than others for one reason or another without providing any evidence that they are not, in fact, correct.
So you are labeling yourself a superior mind because you share your own opinions with yourself?
Thus far the idea that they are not superior appears to be only your opinion and the fact that they do not agree with your opinion the only criteria required as proof that their minds are 'inferior'.
Wow. You really impress the hell out of yourself, don't you?

The major problem IMHO is who gets to decide what constitutes hate speech.
I understand most people assume such postings would be obvious but I read the OPs list and when I saw criticism of Israel on the list I thought I would ask him to explain it's presence. He has thus far refused to answer.
So I thought I would present him with a whole slew of questions, perhaps he could find one easy enough to answer.
So. Criticism of Israel is hate speech. O.K.
Is criticism of Iran hate speech?
Is criticism of Syria hate speech?
Is criticism of China hate speech?
Is criticism of Turkey hate speech?
Is criticism of any Muslim nation hate speech?
Why the special status for Israel?
At first I thought the poster might be part of that new Israeli internet army to stifle Israeli criticism that I've heard about but nah, that's too far fetched.
Then I began to wonder if the term 'anti-semitic' which has been used to stifle legitimate debate and discussion so often in the past, having been used to death to the point it no longer intimidates like it use to, was being replaced by the term 'hate-speech'. And the list provided just to hide the inclusion of the criticism of Israel line so it didn't stand out too obviously. Nah, I'm just being silly.
It is on the list very obviously because...because....OP could you help me out here.....because......

Well I was just a reader until now (2 years), because I finnaly got somethiong I think is worth mentioning..there is a lot of BS here.. unfortunatle..hope you check my forum as I hope some images weren`t shown here before..

reply to post by OzWeatherman


I find this thread offensive. I feel violated just reading it. Everything was happiness and roses until you posted this thread. Now I am very angry. I am filled with seething hatred. I need an outlet for it NOW.

Now where is my Sponge Bob toy? Just kidding. Personally, seriously, I haven't found much hatred on this site, other than the debunkers. In fact, ATS has probably created 10 jobs in the Department of Defense *PURELY* for debunking positions. Therefore, ATS has helped the economy.

Hats off to ATS, for creating the need for those 10 jobs. Debunking probably pays $75,000.00 per year because highly intelligent people are needed to do it. Of course, they pump out gibberish and stupid assertions, but you need to be highly intelligent to do that.

However, while paid debunkers might be spreading DISinformation, there are a lot of armchair debunkers spreading MISinformation. Unfortunately, they are spreading some of the hate because they resort to attacking the person, not the idea. And, unfortunately, they aren't helping the economy as much as the paid debunkers. Maybe they're just strutting their schtuff in the hopes of being offered a government job. It won't happen unless they are already in the intel community.

Wow... I'm sorry, OP, but I don't have time at the moment to go through the entire thread and read all of the responses...

Here is the way I see it in a nutshell...

We are being indiscriminately divided from each other. This is a planned thing, make no mistake.

The masses are becoming aware of the multiple lies we are being told by corporations, and this scares them totally...

If they can divide us, make us fight against each other, we cannot unite and defeat them. And this is the plan fought out from day to day on the corporate media. I apologize if someone has already pointed this out, but like I said, I will go through the thread and read it as soon as I have the time.

It just seems as though "they" are trying to divide and conquer...
And "they" are succeeding...

As long as we fight each other, we cannot unite and see the men behind the curtain that are truly screwing us... "They" are smart and organized... We must cut this crap out, and become smarter, and more organized to win this battle for our minds...

Its sad to see socialism make its way to these forums.

This is my first post ever on ATS. This has been one of the few places where we have critical thinkers. How can you even begin to claim any posts here have racism or anything of the sort? Aren't all posts moderated, maybe yours should have been as well? I've never seen racism or anything you mentioned in your ENTIRE post.

All I see on ATS are patriots and critical thinkers and people who genuinely care for our dirt ball of a planet, not just America (as the poster would have you think).

Its sad to see that "Political Correctness" a form of winning a debate is being
used even on ATS. Are you an Obama voter?

Why should any subject be "Taboo"? How can we fix problems we don't discuss?

Sounds more like an indirect method of control.

Lastly, if you do believe this? Why aren't there any links to your "racist" posts? Why is there no evidence just fluffy thoughts?

Just my thoughts.

- Citizen of the Earth.

My Friend,

"They" don't do anything. They put a message out and you buy into it, see the original post and the 21 pages of replies he caused, its quite clear.

Do not buy into this nonsense.

- Citizen of the Earth

Because of people began buying into fear mongering bull****, went from being skeptical to willing to believe everything they see and read.

Deny Ignorance my ass, people believing that Dragonflies don't exist and people believing that they are in the Matrix is what ATS has come down to.

ATS, the site that settles for less.
Willing to believe everything they are told as long as it isn't from the government.


And stop speaking early modern English, it just makes you look like dicks
This isn't the 17th century.
rant over now



[edit on 3-9-2010 by Segador]

Originally posted by Segador
Because of people began buying into fear mongering bull****, went from being skeptical to willing to believe everything they see and read.

Deny Ignorance my ass, people believing that Dragonflies don't exist and people believing that they are in the Matrix is what ATS has come down to.

ATS, the site that settles for less.
Willing to believe everything they are told as long as it isn't from the government.

And stop speaking early modern English, it just makes you look like dicks

rant over now

[edit on 3-9-2010 by Segador]

Spot on, Brother.

But, this is not fear mongering, elections are coming up, its more of control.

to be honest i dont respect anything you say wetherman. ur denial of chemtrails is enough to show that you have either no intelligence, are in denial or have ulterior motives.