An open message to you all "Since when did this website become.....

Im more of a lurker than a poster,there are still some very good contributors here however recently the shills have arrived something fierce for example in threads detailing alien abductions,dreams and prophecies mind control and other threads that are definately conspiracy topics im seeing increasingly OP's being derided as schizophrenic,or delusional or imagining things or whatever.

If you've never experienced the bizarre or unusual this does not mean it doesn't happen or cant be discussed analytically there are too many personal attacks by people assuming the high moral ground of being firmly gripped in reality and being completely sane when in fact they are just closed minded narrow world viewed shills.

Oz......

Unfortunately, things in this country and abroad have become so disheartening that we all at some point or another need an outlet to rage upon. Yes, ATS has become a different avenue as to what it used to be and what it used to represent, but at the same time, it is full of information that only us, ATSer's, are willing to put forth in order to maintain some sort of sanity together as this whole world that we thought we knew once..dissipates before our eyes.

I can't say for certain that ATS has changed, rather ATS has changed us with witness to that for which Mr. Obama swore to uphold....transparency.

I think the word "hate," for the most part, should be changed to "frustration" among all those/ us seeking to find the truth beyond what it is that you and I, as ATS, can provide.

So, as the world changes, so does ATS. Many new and unseen faces have come into the realm with ideas of their own with regard to circumstance. Hate? Maybe...but that is indeed a strong word to use...Frustration? I believe this overall.....and I also believe in the community in which we have been able to express many an opinion so openly without compromise......

reply to post by speculativeoptimist

There is plenty of criticism for Western culture here. If you haven't witnessed criticism of Christianity or Western culture here, then you haven't been surfing the threads enough.

Yours is quite an aggressive post, if you'd care to peruse it


I surf the threads as often as I can bear, in response to your remark

Yes, there has been increasing criticism of Western society and of Christianity in ATS. Disgustingly so, imo

The point is, I have yet to see ATS mods or owners decrying it -- have you ?

So it appears you missed the point entirely

I find ATS very different from when I joined and that wasn't all that long ago. I will say thread quality isn't the same. There are a few members who I follow because when they post threads it gives me something to read for days and I love their topics.

I don't know what is happening honestly, maybe people are just getting fed up? I don't know...I am not expert.

I prefer the ATS side over BTS, I rarely visit there. I have seen some pretty interesting threads in there that surprised me they were even in BTS but it happens.

reply to post by Dock9


Aggressive? Perhaps assertive.... Okay, to each their own, we agree to disagree. But we did not attack each other with name calling and belittling in that exchange.
I guess the examples this thread made me think about were other threads where the blatant attacks were on the OP's personally and not their stance/position.
I guess I did miss your point, I thought you were saying there is no criticism here at ATS for Western ideology, but you meant from the Mod's.
Fair enough.

Peace

[edit on 13-8-2010 by speculativeoptimist]

I guess I'll check in here. I have top agree that some threads get pretty aggressive, I see that as passion, which I can appreciate. So few have real passion for anything anymore. indigothefish alluded to paid disinfo agents, and as a matter of fact I myself have been accused of that one. indigothefish said:

i beleive it is possible that disinformation agents are here, i beleive when a topic is too accurate they infiltrate the thread and begin causing as many arguments about as many little details, off topic or on topic it doesn't matter, in an effort to derail the conversation as much as possible

I too have seen this, in fact, sometimes the one doing this has just joined that day! I won't point out anything specific, but you long timers know what I mean here. And people, we must admit this to our own selves, some of the topics we freely discuss here could be called "classified" information, and some probably is. Surely there are some Agency people who work to deflect the impact of some posts, and discussions, for obvious reasons.

Dock9 said:

Nor is ATS here to try to function as Thought or Speech Police -- at least one would hope not

Many of those who post in ATS are of senior-age, are married with children, have experience in life and in the world,

They are, many of them, intelligent, well-informed, well-read, educated...

Just the sound of "Thought Police makes me angry, and makes me thing about that book with a year as the name.
We are a diversified lot here, from all walks of live, and slices in between. I do not think one person, or even a group of them should be able to dictate what we say or do not say here. I believe we still practice free speech, and still believe in the Constitution.
You just take the good with the bad, and use the features for what they are meant for...don't like what a person says? Hit the "Ignore" button. somebody really get to you? Name them a "Foe."

reply to post by OzWeatherman


There exists an inequality on ATS - and that inequality is called intolerance.

However, such intolerance is only preceded by intelligence, and as such, is intolerant of stupidity!

Maybe ATS will someday implode under its own weight of conscience!

reply to post by OzWeatherman

Perhaps the solution to your "problem" is more mutual vigilance. Isn't that what Mods are here for, and why their number increases each month?

I've noticed "Alert" and "Ignore" buttons on these pages.

Are they decorations or tools?

And aren't those of us who do or say nothing about Off Topic replies and T&C violations just encouraging more of the same indifference to them?

As far as 'ATS standards' lowering of late

cannot say I've noted this


When I began browsing and posting on ATS, back in around 2004 or earlier, it was very much the same as it is now

Intelligence would dictate that as in general life, you choose the best and leave the rest, per your individual taste

Like most, if I see a post which contravenes what I believe -- and if I believe sufficiently strongly -- I might post my point of view and/or oppose what I consider to be untruthful, disinformation, etc. If people posted only in threads which supported their own beliefs, there would be no ATS, because it would have folded due to disinterest

I don't find ATS to be appreciably different to when I first discovered it.

Although, every so many months, someone will post to say ATS is going down the drain, etc. etc. And others will agree

It's still here though. It's outlasted many posters who claimed it had changed for the worst

As people have already said - be the change you want to see, if you believe ATS needs to change

Glossing over the subjects listed in your posting, I'd suggest comparing your concerns to the way these subjects are covered by the media; it may help your understanding.

For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction.

So what is your goal? To outlaw 'hate', or just our reaction to it, as presented by the media?

reply to post by autowrench



Great post, Autowrench

Wannabe Thought and Speech Police are the enemies of those who strive or profess to Deny Ignorance

reply to post by speculativeoptimist



We're good

And we're showing by example how it can be done

Thanks for your post

Starred !

i can relate to your observations.

seems hate is making more of an appearance here on ATS than in years past, but i think hate is just a fad, like money.

peace,
et

I agree with everything but the threads that are being made.

I like the variety of threads from aliens to 9/11 to god exists.Because it gives us something to talk about.It doesn't always have to be straight facts because this is a conspiracy website.And most of these topics are just theories anyway.The whole point is debating to see if they are just theories or not.So I say have fun with it..too a degree lol

The thing I don't like is the insults or racism or harassment the goes on when people have different opinions on things.And I notice ATS are doing something about it by covering the filth up which is good because kids have computers too.

If you can't have a civilized debate without insulting someone then maybe you shouldn't be here.

Good thread!

reply to post by OzWeatherman


I think the problem is that most interesting subjects have already been covered years ago here on ATS, and the membership has grown in quantity, but not in quality.

As for the hate, I don't know if it's worse than before, it's not the memberswip in general, imo, there are always bad apples I guess, here, and in real life.

Oz, I only checked this out because you Facebooked it to me. Honestly, here's the truth. I don't have the time nor the tolerance for ATS anymore. I was tired of logging on a website and feeling so bad about myself for my own opinions and personality. Maybe one day I'll have the time and patience to spend time here again but I just couldn't handle it anymore. We lost jkrog and WOS and honestly I don't like to be here.

I don't like logging onto a website just to get shot down for what I post and believe. If any of you reading this are the type who creep on here all day and yell at other people who believe different things than you do, do yourself a favor and go make some real friends or go for a walk outside and learn to appreciate variation instead of hating something that you don't believe. That makes you a really unfortunate person.

Originally posted by davidmann
Glossing over the subjects listed in your posting, I'd suggest comparing your concerns to the way these subjects are covered by the media; it may help your understanding.

For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction.

So what is your goal? To outlaw 'hate', or just our reaction to it, as presented by the media?

Now this is what I find to be a worthwhile post ... in other words, spot on

Points on target. Well articulated. And says what many would wish to say (imo)


For example, there's a relative new post up and running right now

It's title announces words to the effect that 49% of Americans would approve of the US administration rolling-back legislation which grants US citizenship to the children of illegal migrants

49%. Amost one in ever two Americans do not want illegal migrants to be able to utilize 'anchor babies' as a means of evading immigration laws

That means that OUT THERE, on the streets of the US, every second American holds that belief /opinion

Now some people will claim that's 'racism'

Yet it's the opinion of 49% of Americans, out-there, beyond ATS mods

Is it reasonable to believe that some of that 49% post here in ATS ?

So again, as Davidmann, myself and others have said -- ATS is merely a reflection of what goes on out there in the real-world

IT would be a sad state of affairs (for ATS in particular) if people departed this forum because it attempted to stifle free speech and the *SAME *opinions as are being expressed in the media, in parliament/Congress, in coffee bars, in living rooms, in schools, in buses and trains, etc.


I doubt anyone in the workplace or in a coffee bar or elsewhere would presume to attempt to stifle another's right to freedom of expression. It would not be tolerated in the real world

I actually think the mods are doing a good job for the most part

Often I will re-read a topic the next day, and see those little "no outlet, T & C violation, and I can't remember seeing anything that bad. So they are getting to stuff.

Sure there is sometimes a bit of anger on the boards, it seems to come in waves, for a week or so, the boards will be full of really cranky people, and then it'll all calm down for a while, and then they get cranky again.

I just chalk it up to experiences people are having in their lives at the time. The world out there is getting stressful for everyone, economy in the toilet, lack of jobs, lots of people lashing out at each other because of race, religion, politics, gender, sexuality (which should be nobodies business), and whatever else.

Then they come to these boards and their experiences haven't had time to heal, and they lash back at times.

When the odd troll is out there, I try to not feed them. Sometimes you don't realize they're a troll until you've already fed them once.

reply to post by ravenshadow13

I don't like logging onto a website just to get shot down for what I post and believe.

If any of you reading this are the type who creep on here all day and yell at other people who believe different things than you do, do yourself a favor and go make some real friends or go for a walk outside and learn to appreciate variation instead of hating something that you don't believe. That makes you a really unfortunate person.

What a shame we lost you

I like your style. And I'm confident I'm far from alone in that

However, I understand and appreciate exactly what you're saying

We've lost many, many great members because they made the mistake of believing the 'Deny Ignorance' banner

and because they made the mistake of believing they were entitled to not only have an opinion, but also to express it

In short, they realised they were casting their pearls before swine

and were being fined, lectured-to and banned, for voicing their opinions in this forum

So we lost them, as we lost you

And now they and you are some other forum's gain


I don't blame you for leaving

just wish you and many like you had been encouraged to remain with ATS, instead of discouraged

best wishes

reply to post by Dock9

Right back at ya Dock9, thanks!

I agree with you're post below too, regarding ravenshadow13.

Well said...

spec