An open message to you all "Since when did this website become.....

My username is only a few years old, but I have been following ATS since 02. I agree That it has changed. I see it as more of an evolution. The more popular the site gets the more mainstream it becomes. The more popular it gets the easier it is to find, so people with more religious and philosophical ideas find the site and use it as a place to vent.

I'm OK with it because the more people who have input the better the site will be. Debate is an art that is being lost and thank God places like ATS exist for healthy debate.

Sign Me On

Sign me on, Oz.

I hereby pledge to put on record, in every hate thread I visit here, that I and many others--perhaps the majority of ATS readers--don't want to read hate speech here on ATS, and do not welcome threads that promote it.

Anone else want to take the pledge? I've started a fresh thread for those who do.

Come here to take the pledge.

[edit on 15/8/10 by Astyanax]

We discussed this thread on ATS Live! last night.

You can hear the show on the REWIND! Player here

reply to post by neformore


Outstanding Broadcast BTW!

And, yes. Thank you and all the other Moderators for sharing aspects of the moderation we members didn't know about. It was interesting to hear some of what mods have to deal with, and the moderation process.

I've been floating around here on ATS for over 5 years now, and didn't know some of the stuff i learned last night from the show.

kudos for another great ATS LIVE car crash radio show, and thanks for going into some details for us.

thanks,
et


[edit on 15-8-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

It boils down to this simple thing.

The moderators and staff can only do so much, this site is user generated content, so it is primarily up to each and every one of us to stop this wave of hate, bigotry, and racism on the board. Deny Hate.

I do not want this site turning into a clone of Stormfront and I am sure that the staff don't want that either. We as a community however can denounce these hatemongers, and I think the best way to do it is by ignoring them and not replying to their hate baiting threads.

The hate monger is a lot like a troll in many ways, they don't care if you get mad at them, they love it, they crave the attention, they want you to go to their threads and attempt to debate them on the subject and act all offended when you call them out on their bigotry and hatred for what it is.

The best way in my opinion to deal with these hate threads is to not reply to them, do not flag them, do not star them, just let them die, eventually the hate mongers will realize they are not welcome here and they will go to another site where that kind of attitude is encouraged.

So that is the way I personally will be the change I wish to see, that is the way I will try and make this site better, by not encouraging those that hate.

reply to post by whatukno


Should we love the people who think we are all born sinners, or the Muslims who think the entire West is corrupt, evil and trying to take over the world? Who prophesise the anti-christ and care not about real issues because all they care about is their prophecy of the end time....Who's religion punishes apostasy with death. No i won't stop being a biggot and hateful to those people.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
When I first came to this website, three years ago, I was simply blown away by the in depth discussion, high quality of threads posted, and the heated yet, challenging debates of various view points on a great range of topics.

Thanks for bringing this thread to my attention, my friend. Yes, yes, it's starred and flagged!

And I understand perfectly what you are saying. ATS is not the same anymore to me either. But to be honest I think it's because I have changed.

When I first came here, everything was so interesting, new, exciting! Since then I have read and read, and even though I have never been the most active thread starter or poster (I still haven't reached 2000 posts!), I have tried to make inputs whenever I thought I had something to contribute to a thread in one of my favourite forums. Now I post even less than before, and I spend less time here.

You see, many of the topics I found so exciting when I first joined, I now know a lot more about. I have found answers to many things, mysteries have been solved, and when certain topics/videos/images come up again (yes, some topics get rehashed a lot) they are simply not that interesting to me anymore. Because I have been there and done that. I have read, followed links, learned from some of the very best ATS members (people like ArMaP, Phage, Internos, JKrog, nablator, ngchunter, weedwhacker, also you Oz, and many others), and they/you have inspired me to do research on my own.

I have also gotten a lot better at recognizing hate speech and threads that in my opinion are only meant to bait, provoce, make you angry, lose your patience and look bad. Personally I am convinced it is just a baiting game to many of the people who start those kind of threads, and I seldom read or follow them anymore. I don't have any patience left for them. I have realized that life is way too short for trolls and hateful key board warriors. Most of the time I just skip their work and move on in the hope that the threads will die quickly.

So I guess I have changed more than ATS have changed. It makes ATS less interesting to me, something that feels a bit sad. It also feels sad that many of the members who were active when I was a noob are not around anymore, for different reasons. Some of them I miss very much. I also miss Mutter, it was a great way stay in touch with people and have a lot of fun. But ATS has after all been a great learning experience to me, and I am a wiser person today than I was when I first stumbled into this place.

For that, I thank ATS and my great teachers and friends here. You are one of them, Oz. It's because of members like you that I continue to hang around and write a post once in a while.

Well said OP. I had an old account on here, which I lost the password to. I've been on and off here for years. I don't get near as much enjoyment out of ATS as I used to.

It doesn't matter what is said, there are people who come to fight about what's wrong or right. What happened to all the open-minded people out there. Even if you don't agree with someone, why use the sarcasim or hatefulness? Tolerance is gone.

It's nice to know there are others out there who feel the same as I do. Thanks OP.

....Delete::::: Double Post..

[edit on 15-8-2010 by thomasc83]

So...

Because people are passionate and have different opinions to the OP, that makes them bad people?

Not all debate is wrapped in sweet smelling roses you know, and besides we live in harsh times.

I think the OP needs to climb down from his pedestal.

reply to post by ziggystar60



I think you absolutely have the right of it. It was fascinating and incredible. I've learned SO much here. But because of all I've learned here, I've grown and sometimes we out-grow things. And IMHO this is what many who have posted both in this thread and the one muzzleflash started in response here are feeling. At first I thought both of these threads should go to BTS under 'rant', but now I'm seeing a much different picture.

Honestly, I think these 2 threads say more about us as people than anything I've read in a long time.

And Oz, you were one of the first folks here that was nice and helpful to me when I first started. As a matter of fact, you u2ued me about the dangers of becoming a chemtrail fan!! But you were kind and pleasant and THAT is REALLY what all this is about!!!

Should we love the people who think we are all born sinners, or the Muslims who think the entire West is corrupt, evil and trying to take over the world?

YES! Because until WE can come FROM a place of love and compassion in our own hearts, then we can NEVER spread that to the very people who need it most.
And you know what? The ones who DO feel we're evil and corrupt are the ones who get the press. I spent time over there. I know Muslim families. They were so good to me. I went to their homes, they cooked me dinner.... they were wonderful people. Do you read about that in the paper? Nope, just the crazies... and a$$holes come in every color, every religion, every race.

Love is where is at. It's difficult, but when you achieve it, it's the best!

I find myself going on these boards less and less...

ATS has just become a sounding board for other websites and "media outlets" to disseminate their "Talking Points of the Day." I suppose with the wider viewership ATS becomes a more tempting target for those with an organized propaganda program (I mean "media strategy").

Truth be told, ATS is sounding more and more like the junk I can watch on TV. The change has been noticeable even in the last year.

reply to post by OzWeatherman


I had brought this up a few years ago that the level of ignorance on ATS, a site dedicated to denial of ignorance, is Pathetic !

But I also brought up the point that it is reflective of the US population and our failed education system here in America as well as a culture raised by television.

For we as a result of spending so much time watching Television, we lag the rest of the industrialized world in education.

In fact in an international competition amongst high school students in Math and Physics the Americans finished almost dead last.

One of the more ominous findings in the latest study is that even the American students taking advanced courses could not measure up to students from other nations. In math, they ranked 15th out of 16 nations.

In physics, U.S. seniors ranked dead last. In general math and science, American seniors ranked near the bottom among 21 nations.

Japan and China, usually the gold-medal performers in past studies of younger grades, did not participate in the seniors' round of the multiyear study. Instead, U.S. seniors were outgunned in basic math by Sweden, Switzerland and Germany, among others; creamed in science by Canada; and overpowered in physics by the very country that is supposed to be looking to the United States for scientific expertise, Russia.

"Our students fare poorly on the largest, most comprehensive and most rigorous international comparison of education ever undertaken," said a disappointed Bruce Alberts, president of the National Academy of Sciences.

This unfortunately is exactly what is very apparent based upon much of what we see posted here on ATS.



articles.sfgate.com...

reply to post by neformore


Moderator, this post reminds me of an Op Ed piece in the Dallas Morning News, that quoted polls that 42% believed Obama was a Muslim, 28% didn't believe he was born in the US, 40% believed he was using fascists techniques to promote his agenda, etc. The closing of the OP Ed was that we need discourse, but craziness will not be tolerated.

The key is that the DMN editor has decided what's crazy and what's not. The post reminds me of this, that we all need to appoint someone to determine what is "hate" and what is "crazy", unfortunately what is crazy or hate has been propagandized, obviously the poster knows what should be banned. That's a little Orwellian.

Once again are we not adults that each individual can decide what is hate and what is normal intense debate...

stoppppppppppppppppppppp being babies and looking for more people that just wrap themselves in the warmth and comfort of the familiar.

grow up...this is the world we are dealing with and if there are haters on here...deal with it.

the discussions are still great...and also even another poster in this thread said they had brought this same topic up...a few YEARS ago.

SOOOOOOOOOOOO therefore it is just when someone is wanting yet more controls over what is being said in an open forum.

now the only time haters become a problem is when they might turn it into an personal attack on a member.

just cause someone states their anger in general at a group or faction of society soooo what.

that is a lead in to debate, why an individual should be feeling as they do.

yes i have heard it again it's summer and the kids are out of school and the place gos downhill....WHAT a load of rubbish...so now once again the old are against the next inheritors of this world....show some leadership and show them the way.

Just cause it seems some people would like to have a mambi pambi sweet little place where they say their views and not get back some harsh...if not sometimes correct responses from others then why would you even bother speaking.

resolution can come through verbal conflict....it is better than listening to your goverment, and picking up a weapon and going to attack people is it not.

GOD have people not heard "sticks and stones my break my bones but names will never hurt me"

sorry but i think the OP is way wayyy wayyyyy off base and needs a reality check.

(now i do not hate the OP)i am disagreeing with the OP in a harsh verbal reality.

now i for one only wish for the people of earth to live in peace...but not in a forced peace.

i want open debate....

so please speak out and dont hold back cause you might be offensive....
this politically correct crud is destroying society.

it is stiffling actual real feelings of people who are passionate about their views.



[edit on 013131p://f04Sunday by plube]

[edit on 013131p://f05Sunday by plube]

That comes with the territory of progress..bottom line is the overall number of members continues to grow and hence the gift of knowledge reaches further, whether intellects or idiots, its not your concern how they perceive the information just be happy they're interested in something relevant.

Truly hateful comments are few and far between from what i have seen, even then i still don't see it as a problem. I honestly think this topic shows precisely what is wrong with the world today, it is the types of people supporting this topics views that are destroying society rather than those you lambast in it...

i just gave a star to the previous two posters

for speaking their minds without fear of reprocussion.

i must say that giving the OP stars for whinging is just strange to me.

[edit on 013131p://f17Sunday by plube]

reply to post by OzWeatherman


I like ATS just the way it is. It really is just for entertainment and if some of us have a higher opinion of what it should be then I feel kind of sorry for them.

When it comes right down to it who can really tell where the propaganda ends and the truth begins? I especially like reading the posts of people I don't like.