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Biblical Deaths: How Many Did God Kill? How Many Did Satan Kill?

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posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by Greenfly13
hello


Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior

Originally posted by Greenfly13

Originally posted by nlouise
That's mincing words. He said that if they ate of the tree they would die.

God said they would die the very day they ate of the tree.
They ate, and did not die that day.
God lied.
G


Actually since a lot of people seem to take stuff out of context as they choose around here,


Out of context?
So, you are going to quote the surrounding text (the 'context') and show that God did really say that?

Because that's what "out of context" means.



Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
I'd like to point out:
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. - 2 Peter 3:8


Pardon?
That's the "context"?
Another book, written centuries later?

That's not context - it's an excuse from completely OUT of context - a book from far away from another time and place and religion and person.

Anytime there is some problem with timing, this passage gets trotted out.

Your argument seems to be that when God said :
"you will die the very day you eat thereof"
He really means :
"you will die in the very 1000 years you eat thereof"
Seriously? That's your argment?

Does that 1 day = 1000 years apply generally then does it?


So, when Jesus was in the tomb for "3 days" that really means "3000 years" ?
wheee - this is fun !
:-)


G



Excuse me but.......the only one adding the word VERY is you. You have done this several times to make your point. I guess without that word, you have no point. And you call God the liar?




posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Love drawing straws much? or twisting?

Again. For the umpteenth time. Innocence of one crime is not innocence of all crimes.

There is nothing more to this argument. You're just desperate to twist it to your favor. That fact disproves any factual statement of guilt or innocence. You cannot say what they were based on this chapter alone. Innocence og David's crime is not innocence in general.



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by nlouise
Ok Greenfly, what is your point?


I made my point very clear - God lied.
(according to the Bible)


Originally posted by nlouise
That God is a liar here?


Yes, according to the Bible, God lied.
Like I said.



Originally posted by nlouise
I suppose if I tell you to 'break a leg' you would take that out of context too?


You people keep using that phrase "out of context" - it doesn't mean what you think it does.


Originally posted by nlouise
Would I be lying to you if I told you it meant 'good luck'?


Please stop trying to change the subject to other things. Bringing up some OTHER vague idiom has nothing to do with this clear and specific threat.

If YOU claim "you will die the very day you eat thereof"
is an idiom that means something else - why can't you explain WHAT it really MEANS, nlouise? You keep insisting it does NOT mean they will die that day - so what DOES it mean then?

Please explain clearly - what DO you claim the 'idiom'
"you will die the very day you eat thereof"
REALLY means?


Because the text is clear and specific and shows no signs of 'idiom' at all :

God said :
"if you eat from it,
you will die
in the VERY DAY YOU EAT thereof".

It's a clear and specific threat.

But they did eat. They did NOT die that day.

God was wrong - and he must have known he was wrong.
God lied.


So far, the excuses have been:

1. It's a translation problem
But no-one can correct the translation

2. It cannot be expressed in English
haha

3. It's "out of context"
It is totally IN context - the surrounding text supports the quote.
Apologists here do not know what the phrase "out of context" means.

4. it's "an idiom" that really means something else, never explained
Somehow the phrase
"you will die that very day"
is meant to be an idiom that esseentially means
"you will not die that very day"

5. "A day is a 1000 years"
So when God said
"you will die that very day"
it really meant :
"you will die within 1000 years"



G



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by nlouise
Excuse me but.......the only one adding the word VERY is you. You have done this several times to make your point. I guess without that word, you have no point. And you call God the liar?


Because it means completely different things without the word "very" right?

So when God says :
"you will die, in the day you eat thereof".

Does NOT really mean that actual day, that specific day, that very day?

It's clear from the text -
God lied.
But you just cannnot admit it.


G



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by Greenfly13

Originally posted by nlouise
Ok Greenfly, what is your point?


I made my point very clear - God lied.
(according to the Bible)


Originally posted by nlouise
That God is a liar here?


Yes, according to the Bible, God lied.
Like I said.



Originally posted by nlouise
I suppose if I tell you to 'break a leg' you would take that out of context too?


You people keep using that phrase "out of context" - it doesn't mean what you think it does.


Originally posted by nlouise
Would I be lying to you if I told you it meant 'good luck'?


Please stop trying to change the subject to other things. Bringing up some OTHER vague idiom has nothing to do with this clear and specific threat.

If YOU claim "you will die the very day you eat thereof"
is an idiom that means something else - why can't you explain WHAT it really MEANS, nlouise? You keep insisting it does NOT mean they will die that day - so what DOES it mean then?

Please explain clearly - what DO you claim the 'idiom'
"you will die the very day you eat thereof"
REALLY means?


Because the text is clear and specific and shows no signs of 'idiom' at all :

God said :
"if you eat from it,
you will die
in the VERY DAY YOU EAT thereof".

It's a clear and specific threat.

But they did eat. They did NOT die that day.

God was wrong - and he must have known he was wrong.
God lied.


So far, the excuses have been:

1. It's a translation problem
But no-one can correct the translation

2. It cannot be expressed in English
haha

3. It's "out of context"
It is totally IN context - the surrounding text supports the quote.
Apologists here do not know what the phrase "out of context" means.

4. it's "an idiom" that really means something else, never explained
Somehow the phrase
"you will die that very day"
is meant to be an idiom that esseentially means
"you will not die that very day"

5. "A day is a 1000 years"
So when God said
"you will die that very day"
it really meant :
"you will die within 1000 years"



G


Would you like me to count the number of times you added the word VERY to the scripture to make your point, or would you like me to save you some embarassment?



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by Greenfly13

Originally posted by nlouise
Excuse me but.......the only one adding the word VERY is you. You have done this several times to make your point. I guess without that word, you have no point. And you call God the liar?


Because it means completely different things without the word "very" right?

So when God says :
"you will die, in the day you eat thereof".

Does NOT really mean that actual day, that specific day, that very day?

It's clear from the text -
God lied.
But you just cannnot admit it.


G



Why do you add it to make a point? One word changes the context on anything. Theres nothing for me to admit. Your point doesn't hold water.

They died 'spiritually' that day. Separation from God is a spiritual death, the whole point of Part 2 in the Bible. That is why the Law laid down through Moses (actually started at the time of Adam and Eve's sin, but written by Moses) given by God had so much attonement in it. The Laws didn't connect people spiritually, but they were symbolic of a time (and forced them to remember) that God would once again make us spiritually alive through Jesus Christ, because Jesus was the only one that was able to keep the Law 100%, before he sacrificed himself on the cross and bridged the gap between God and humanity.

There, I just told the whole gospel in one paragraph.


edit: extra word taken out 'gave'


[edit on 30-8-2010 by nlouise]



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 02:22 AM
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Kapyong, tell you what, I'll answer your questions after you answer the one I asked you in my previous post.

When is your suspension up?



posted on Aug, 31 2010 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by Greenfly13
God lied.


God lied? That's the best you can do, Kap? Who would believe that? You're an atheist, so one wouldn't expect that you would make rational statements about God, but, come on. God lied? When the alternative is an error in statement on the part of the writer, or an error in translation? Or, most likely, an error on your part?

You represent the worst of your ilk. Not only can you be nothing but negative, you're incompetent in your negativity, as well.

(I presume that you put me on "ignore" after I pointed out your sock puppet accounts in your old and mouldy thread, but you ignore people who point out your lies and foolishness anyway, so no great loss there.)



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Love drawing straws much? or twisting?

Again. For the umpteenth time. Innocence of one crime is not innocence of all crimes.

There is nothing more to this argument. You're just desperate to twist it to your favor. That fact disproves any factual statement of guilt or innocence. You cannot say what they were based on this chapter alone. Innocence og David's crime is not innocence in general.


Establish the crime of those 70K people once and for all because I'm not buying your claim that their crime was "something".



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by nlouise

Thats why one has to read the book cover to cover. When read it in its entirety the answers become evidently clear. Picking random quotes and expounding on them without any knowledge of the facts goes against critical thinking. I would think critical thinking with knowledge of the facts would be tantamount to drawing a final conclusion. Such is with everything else in life.


Well, could you sum up the parts that support your claim? I've read the bible and I don't see anything within it that would give god a free pass on his serial killings of humans because of the incident in Eden. Therefore, without telling me to go read the bible, pick the part which supports your assertions and let me know please.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by nlouise

Thats why one has to read the book cover to cover. When read it in its entirety the answers become evidently clear. Picking random quotes and expounding on them without any knowledge of the facts goes against critical thinking. I would think critical thinking with knowledge of the facts would be tantamount to drawing a final conclusion. Such is with everything else in life.


Well, could you sum up the parts that support your claim? I've read the bible and I don't see anything within it that would give god a free pass on his serial killings of humans because of the incident in Eden. Therefore, without telling me to go read the bible, pick the part which supports your assertions and let me know please.



Before I attempt to support this, let me make sure I understand your question correctly. Are you asking me provide Biblical support to show why the incident in the garden of Eden, was the reason that God wiped out so many people?

I am asking this because my household of 3 (including me) have been sick for the past week with some virus going around, and I have been running a slight temperature off and on. I want to make sure that I am answering the right question before hand, because quite frankly, right now I feel like cutting my own head off. lol. I can't think too well.



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by nlouise

I can't think too well.


Basically you pegged the question. I interpreted your position as that because of the incident in Eden god should have been given special license or a pass on his serial killing of humans.

I am really sorry to hear that you are ill. If you're not in the right frame of mind right now I understand, so feel free to answer later if you'd like. Best wishes and get well soon!



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by nlouise

I can't think too well.


Basically you pegged the question. I interpreted your position as that because of the incident in Eden god should have been given special license or a pass on his serial killing of humans.

I am really sorry to hear that you are ill. If you're not in the right frame of mind right now I understand, so feel free to answer later if you'd like. Best wishes and get well soon!


Thank you for the sentiment.

That's not a fair assessment to say that (I can't think too well) and conclude that I "pegged the question". You’re entitled to your opinion, but still…not nice. I’ll get back to you on the rest.

It would be foolish for me to state that I have knowledge of everything in the Bible. It is a big book and even after years of reading it, there is so much to learn, gain insight on, and understand. When I have questions, God shows me where to look. One way he does it for me is he brings certain answers to mind instantly and I search them out. For those who are not in relationship with him, it is 'just a book' subject to anyone’s interpretation, which goes on all the time, obviously.

It’s funny; God used you (though you can’t possibly realize it) to provoke me with a question (the one about the elders, specifically). After looking up a verse on your question, it answered a completely different issue for me on something else that has been nagging me for a while about the ‘church’, in general, I just couldn’t put my finger on it until then. In fact the answer I immediately typed came from him, even before I looked up the verses to verify. Its funny how that works. I’m not that quick, I promise.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Genesis says God kills those who knowingly sin and do evil.

You either accept the whole bible or none of it. That means you either accept that based on the whole Bible they were guilty of something, or you don't accept any of it, in which case the whole story for you is a myth and bares nothing important.

So either accept it all or deny it all. Don't stay in between, or you're wrong.

[edit on 2-9-2010 by Gorman91]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by nlouise
Thank you for the sentiment.

That's not a fair assessment to say that (I can't think too well) and conclude that I "pegged the question". You’re entitled to your opinion, but still…not nice. I’ll get back to you on the rest.


Perhaps you misinterpreted what I meant by that because I certainly wasn't being impolite. By "pegging the question" I meant that you rephrased the question as I had understood it.


It’s funny; God used you (though you can’t possibly realize it) to provoke me with a question (the one about the elders, specifically).


My take on this is that this is simply another association similar to that of the elders and the healing. I think you visit threads such as this because you have questions and explorations of the theme get you to those answers. In other words, it wasn't god... it was you!.

I hope you're getting around to feeling better.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
So either accept it all or deny it all. Don't stay in between, or you're wrong.


Since the bible is full of contradictions it's impossible to accept it all. And because there are contradictions - in this case that Genesis was wrong and god kills innocents - you're faced with choosing out of several options whenever one is presented. In this case you've chosen to believe that all 70K people must have been guilty of something but you can't say what rather than believe the bible inerrant even though it's chock full of contradictions such as these.

You're in a real pickle thinking that the bible is inerrant, I understand. But simply assuming things about a story told twice in the bible (where this could have been cleared up) forces you into a position of adding to the supposed inerrant bible. You're facing problems with your position no matter which way you go.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by nlouise
Thank you for the sentiment.

That's not a fair assessment to say that (I can't think too well) and conclude that I "pegged the question". You’re entitled to your opinion, but still…not nice. I’ll get back to you on the rest.


Perhaps you misinterpreted what I meant by that because I certainly wasn't being impolite. By "pegging the question" I meant that you rephrased the question as I had understood it.


It’s funny; God used you (though you can’t possibly realize it) to provoke me with a question (the one about the elders, specifically).


My take on this is that this is simply another association similar to that of the elders and the healing. I think you visit threads such as this because you have questions and explorations of the theme get you to those answers. In other words, it wasn't god... it was you!.

I hope you're getting around to feeling better.



Hello again. I apologize for that. Because we don’t know each other’s personalities, things often come across a different way, the obvious limitations of computer communication. I like you, you seem to be a nice person, which is the only reason I stayed on this topic at all. I'm not here to 'troll'.

In reference to the association: I had posted something last night on a different thread. Remember when I said believing and knowing were two different things? Well, the ‘other’ side knows too (those that are into the occult). I posted a response to someone that is into the Kabbal, (the other side). I am still waiting for a response, which I am sure will happen soon after they read what I wrote. I’m also sure that the response will be condescending at best, but from what I wrote, they will also know where I am coming from and will know that I know what they know. (say that 10 times real fast. Lol) It’s a different level of understanding.

This stuff is real OP. It’s not just some phenomenon; even the other side knows that. There is much more to the Bible than what is on the surface. I KNOW this to be fact. What can be seen on the pages is only one layer. Right now I only see what you see. She was the first person I’ve actually encountered that has that ability, but by a different spirit. I know by what she wrote.

Kabbalists are seeing things through a different spirit, which they refer to as the ‘third eye’. They are following an entity that is opposite of God’s very nature. Christians can see things through God’s eyes, and we aren’t being lied to, they are. God doesn’t lie. Some may not like what they see on the Old Testament pages, but it’s all there in black & white, nothing withheld, other than spiritual knowledge that God gives freely to those who ask, with a clean heart.

If you are interested in reading the post I can post the link for you. Right now I am waiting on a response. I’m not sure what the response will be, actually I am expecting her to ‘rip into me’, but the facts still remain. Maybe it will shed some light on what is actually on the pages, that can’t be seen with our natural abilities, even from their perspective. Satan uses the Bible too, but for his own advantage.


edit: you can U2U me for the link if you wish.








[edit on 2-9-2010 by nlouise]



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by nlouise
This stuff is real OP. It’s not just some phenomenon; even the other side knows that.


I used to think so. In fact, at one time I was involved fairly heavily in some "other side" stuff as you might call it and it certainly seemed very real. So real that I had a hard time coming to terms that it wasn't real. But I understand that you and the other person believe it is and though I do not anymore, I fully respect your right to believe as you wish.

It took me a long time to reexamine all my beliefs under the sharp scalpel of scrutiny and the application of Occam's razor. Once I realized there were other explanations for things that seemingly had no other explanation than the supernatural, life and the universe became a much different, much more beautiful place to be.

Anyway, I think we're going down a tangent here. Thanks for your kind words and respectful discourse: I tip my hat to you. I hope you're feeling better and if not I hope you heal soon.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 12:57 PM
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Sure is oftly Interpretation in here. 40 pages worth of interpretation. Does anyone find it odd that you would have to try and determine what was really meant in these books? Dude is Blues Clues out the ying yang. I guess this is why there are 10,000 different branches of three religious books.



posted on Sep, 2 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by idonotcollectstamps
Sure is oftly Interpretation in here. 40 pages worth of interpretation. Does anyone find it odd that you would have to try and determine what was really meant in these books? Dude is Blues Clues out the ying yang. I guess this is why there are 10,000 different branches of three religious books.



Blues Clues out the ying yang?

Yes, 10,000 branches of three religious books, but 9,999 imposters. There is power in many of them, but there is only one that trumps them all. That one has the power of perfection and perfect love, which casts out all fear.




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