Biblical Deaths: How Many Did God Kill? How Many Did Satan Kill?

reply to post by Gorman91


You probably need some sleep.

The Bible says a lot concerning the Holy Spirit. God does speak to us through the Holy Spirit. The Spiritual Gifts are real, and I'm not referring to the Kundalini conterfeit spirits and dramatized madness going on in the charismatic circles. That stuff is all dog and pony show.

reply to post by nlouise


Yea I kind of badly worded that. I mean in terms of what he is as a character. Jesus we have this young chap, beard. Rebel of the established order. Savior, etc etc. God is Father, creator, etc etc. The big guy in charge. Again a whole personality. But what is the person of the Holy Spirit? We know his gifts and purpose. Nothing much beyond.

reply to post by pepsi78


Nope. A test. People confuse test with deception. Deception is an evil lie to divide and bring down. Test is incomplete revelation for a greater lesson.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by slinger

 

Wasn't that about the true life after death, not the death we call life as mortals?

Death and life are often switched around.

[edit on 26-8-2010 by Gorman91]

This life here on earth! Satin has NOTHING TO SAY AT JUDGEMENT DAY other than see what he did in his life,God makes the final decisions
about your life and soul,here and there!!!!! What you do in this life(emphasis on the YOU) will determine how God makes decisions about you here and there!

Originally posted by Equinox99
That is what is flawed with science. You use the 5 perceptions we have to identify the world around us.

Methods in science can detect much more than can be perceived by five senses. The scientific process is the best way we have of determining the truth of the universe around us. Though our base of scientific knowledge is in its infancy we've made strong gains in human knowledge in a short amount of time.

The five senses are actually what are flawed. A book of optical illusions or an experience with a good magician shows up how flawed they are. Our flawed and limited senses tend to let us think there are ghosts, aliens and even gods. Thankfully we have such a thing as scientific inquiry and method to arrive at understandings of the universe that transcend the basic human explanations for things. Especially the poorest and most widespread explanation: that an all-powerful but invisible deity is responsible for all the things beyond the frontiers of our knowledge. I don't rule out the possibility that a deity will turn up somewhere but so far there's none wherever we look and there's nothing discovered anywhere in the universe that requires such a thing.

Originally posted by under_topsecret
So, how will i understand this ? You believe in God ?

Or, you don´t believe. If you don´t why you bother and are pissed of ?
You live in some country where is a great risk for secular state, then you fight for souls of poor believers, and your country´s future ?

Wherever is mention of God somewhere you atheists are the first to write bull#. And most loud.
You atheists cannot live without God, can´t you ?

It seems you paint atheists with a broad brush that is laden with the typical bigotry and misunderstandings. It's quite sad that instead of engaging in discussion about the topic you'll instead distract the thread with your hang ups about me or atheists in general.

Originally posted by nlouise
Anyway, about 5 years into our friendship he shows up at my place one day telling me he gave his heart to God that morning.

You've given me little to work with here but it sounds to me as if your friend was having some emotional or social issues that contributed to this unexpected 180. "Giving his heart to god" certainly doesn't seem like the thing to say if he had discovered some objective truth.

Edited to add: I finally got to the follow up post where you said he had "hit rock bottom". This is extremely common actually but doesn't confirm the existence of deities: it's an emotional adjustment caused by extreme stress, grief or other negative human experience.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by traditionaldrummer]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Equinox99
That is what is flawed with science. You use the 5 perceptions we have to identify the world around us.

Methods in science can detect much more than can be perceived by five senses. The scientific process is the best way we have of determining the truth of the universe around us. Though our base of scientific knowledge is in its infancy we've made strong gains in human knowledge in a short amount of time.

The five senses are actually what are flawed. A book of optical illusions or an experience with a good magician shows up how flawed they are. Our flawed and limited senses tend to let us think there are ghosts, aliens and even gods. Thankfully we have such a thing as scientific inquiry and method to arrive at understandings of the universe that transcend the basic human explanations for things. Especially the poorest and most widespread explanation: that an all-powerful but invisible deity is responsible for all the things beyond the frontiers of our knowledge. I don't rule out the possibility that a deity will turn up somewhere but so far there's none wherever we look and there's nothing discovered anywhere in the universe that requires such a thing.

You mean the science that gave us global warming or the science that gave us the scam called global warming,or the science that gave us three mile island and chernobyl Or is it the science that gave us millions of dead babies! or maybe the science that gave us the gulf oil spill ? Or maybe the science that gave us thousands of falidimide babies in the 50's and early 60's, Or the science that gave us DDT,and the list goes on and on! We need to learn that is a fact but I'll put my faith in God first,then science! And by the way science has been around a long time when you consider the fact that the Egyptians used science in there time too!

I don't believe God kills or punishes. But people like to blame God for death and other bad things. I had a friend who was sure God caused his wife's miscarriage.

So this all comes down to a belief or disbelief discussion as do all threads with any hint of religions in them.... I don't know if god does or doesn't exist but if he did exist I suppose he could kill whoever he wanted to because he doesn't have to answer to anybody unless of course he has to answer to the creators creator and so forth?

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by nlouise
Anyway, about 5 years into our friendship he shows up at my place one day telling me he gave his heart to God that morning.

You've given me little to work with here but it sounds to me as if your friend was having some emotional or social issues that contributed to this unexpected 180. "Giving his heart to god" certainly doesn't seem like the thing to say if he had discovered some objective truth.

Edited to add: I finally got to the follow up post where you said he had "hit rock bottom". This is extremely common actually but doesn't confirm the existence of deities: it's an emotional adjustment caused by extreme stress, grief or other negative human experience.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by traditionaldrummer]

You are right, he had an emotional breakdown and it does cause people to do strange things. If I had no personal 'experiences' in my own life, I would understand exactly where you are coming from.

I hear rediculous things about people seeing Mary on a window and sightings of Jesus on a potatoe chip and such, this to me sounds rediculous.

God in the Bible did lead battles and many people died. Noah's arc alone would be only one such example. Death is a horrible thing, but there is also more to the context of each example than just the end result.

The only comparison to today in our terms of justice is; someone comes into your home in the middle of the night and kills your wife, mother and daughter.....is it ok to see the one who did it come to justice? Should that person loose his life for taking the lives of others? Or should that person be person get a slap on the wrist and be sent away, to do it again?

Back in Noahs time there were some real crazy things going on (which may or may not give creedence to greek mythology). Book of enoch gives a real detailed account of it. It wasn't just that mankind was doing 'sinful' things. If that were the case, mankind wouldn't be here now. Noah being found perfect in his generations means Noah had an untainted bloodline. Untainted from the madness going on with the eloheim with flesh women and the nephelium/giants massacring others on large scale. Even then, God waited until after certain people passed away from old age before he caused the flood.

Sodom and Gomorah for example, how would any of us like to have been the ones that went to Lot's house to get him out of there? The people outside the doors of his home were so out of control they were trying to have sex with the angels, even after they were blinded. That's not just pathetic, thats sick.

Anyway, the point that I am trying to make is that there were reasons for so many deaths. It wasn't because God wanted to amuse himself. He created us, why would he want to destroy his own creation?

I am a ceramic clay artist (at least I think so). I create lots of things. Once in a while something goes wrong in the firing process and it pains me to have to discard my pieces after all the work I have done, and these are just objects with no life. How much more does it grieve God to have to destroy his own creation, who are life?

edit: left out the word 'be'.


[edit on 27-8-2010 by nlouise]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by under_topsecret
So, how will i understand this ? You believe in God ?

Or, you don´t believe. If you don´t why you bother and are pissed of ?
You live in some country where is a great risk for secular state, then you fight for souls of poor believers, and your country´s future ?

Wherever is mention of God somewhere you atheists are the first to write bull#. And most loud.
You atheists cannot live without God, can´t you ?

It seems you paint atheists with a broad brush that is laden with the typical bigotry and misunderstandings. It's quite sad that instead of engaging in discussion about the topic you'll instead distract the thread with your hang ups about me or atheists in general.

Welcome to my world, TD... I never thought so little of people as I have since I have encountered the "anti-theists" of ATS. Bigots, to the man. Mostly idiots, who lack cognitive thought, but the belief runs deep that it's wrong to hate anyone, unless you hate a Christian.

It's funny, in a way. A couple of years ago, I commented to some friends in a discussion that we, as Christians, probably lacked a bit of the conviction of those in the past, because, as Americans, Christians are pretty much the norm. There isn't any persecution, and, in fact, the opposite seems to be true.

However, in the past two months, I have never felt more hated, more despised, than when I came onto this forum and attempted to defend my faith. Though I question the real courage of the majority of these angry atheists, I do feel sometimes that more than a few of you would just as soon see me dead.

I truly do not know where that comes from. At my core, I love you and I would defend your right to disbelieve at the cost of my own death, because I really think that it is that important that you find your way to God (or not) on your own terms. But this tolerance is met with an innate hostility that seems destined to always lash out at Christians, regardless of the situation or particular person involved.

At times, these sorts of interactions move me to despair of humanity. I see some, like you and Eight Bits, who disagree with me, but seem reasonable and civil, but I also see absolute depravity and ignorance in some of the posters here. I know that there is a certain level of bravado that comes from being an anonymous poster in an Internet forum, but I suspect that this is the real person coming through, not the other way around.

Bigotry. It's apparently the new way to view the world outside of yourself.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by nlouise
Anyway, about 5 years into our friendship he shows up at my place one day telling me he gave his heart to God that morning.

You've given me little to work with here but it sounds to me as if your friend was having some emotional or social issues that contributed to this unexpected 180. "Giving his heart to god" certainly doesn't seem like the thing to say if he had discovered some objective truth.

Edited to add: I finally got to the follow up post where you said he had "hit rock bottom". This is extremely common actually but doesn't confirm the existence of deities: it's an emotional adjustment caused by extreme stress, grief or other negative human experience.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by traditionaldrummer]

True, does not prove diety in any visual sense. Diety cannot be seen with our eyes when looking for it in our 3 demensions. Diety is fourth dimension. Cannot be proven in that way.

The reason so many are accepting at 'rock bottom' is because that is perhaps the only time in a persons life that they are real with themselves. Until then, they are so caught up in life itself they never take the time to know who they really are other than on the surface. What happens on the surface is the manifestation of what is in the heart of a person. Evil produces evil, love produces love, and there is lots of in between.

When we are stripped of everything on the surface, we are forced to look on the inside. (If we didn't we wouldn't be human, just a bunch of sociopaths walking around.)

Once a person sees who he/she really is, that is the point that we make real life decisions. Some good, some bad. This breakdown could come from anything, maybe the death of someone close, but these are the rare moments that we see who we really are, and many times the moment that God chooses to reveal himself. Outside of this type of heart to heart encounter we ignore that he's even there, and perhaps never believe he is there or exists.

Rock bottom can be a good thing. For some that is the only way that 'proof' can become evident.

reply to post by adjensen


I'm sure glad you said it. I was getting around to that very same posting (not OP the other one), until I saw your reply. LOL


I have noticed a lot of hostility on other threads, even without any conjecture, just plain bashing while others come in for the 'kill'. What is wrong with people these days?

We can all believe what we want to believe. Why all the hatred?

TD,

I've just skimmed this thread, but I don't think it has any merit. It's title is inflammatory and divisive, and frankly... If I don't care much for Testament X...
why bother?

reply to post by Gorman91


I read your other posts and figured something was up on that one. You already stated that you needed sleep. I was just messing with you. LOL

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

It seems you paint atheists with a broad brush that is laden with the typical bigotry and misunderstandings. It's quite sad that instead of engaging in discussion about the topic you'll instead distract the thread with your hang ups about me or atheists in general.

How to "paint" atheists anyway ?

All atheists i´ve meet, and know in my life, almost never discuss God in real life.
It is some phenomena that atheists like to crusade in vurtual life, forum, blogs, etc....

You are more boring than Jehovah's Witness.


[edit on 28-8-2010 by under_topsecret]

Originally posted by slinger
You mean the science that gave us global warming or the science that gave us the scam called global warming,or the science that....

Or may the science that doubled the human lifespan in less than a hundred years or the science that allows us to feed 6-7 billion people, etc.

This science gave us more "miracles" than deities even did.

Originally posted by nlouise
The only comparison to today in our terms of justice is; someone comes into your home in the middle of the night and kills your wife, mother and daughter.....is it ok to see the one who did it come to justice? Should that person loose his life for taking the lives of others? Or should that person be person get a slap on the wrist and be sent away, to do it again?

Viewing the biblical god as a sort of cosmic judge responsible for justice comes with problems. The biggest being the fact that injustice runs rampant and the cosmic judge doesn't appear to be at the bench.

Also, the accounts of god killing others in the bible often doesn't equate to justice by any means. We've already discussed Job and the 70K people killed for David's census. Those were not only not justice but completely immoral. One of the interesting things about this thread has been how the devout overlook or ignore the inherent immorality and unjustness of god's acts of killing.

Originally posted by adjensen
However, in the past two months, I have never felt more hated, more despised, than when I came onto this forum and attempted to defend my faith. Though I question the real courage of the majority of these angry atheists, I do feel sometimes that more than a few of you would just as soon see me dead.

I'm with you. Taking a stand on matters of religion or belief (or disbelief) always draws ire from the more venomous. You are solid in your belief and I am solid in my disbelief yet more often than not I think we engage in respectable discourse, and I believe this is model behavior for those discussing an emotionally charged topic. I consider you in the top-tier of ATS christians and have much respect for you. Taking our stances will earn us the drive-by posts of some in opposite camps who wish a quick dig at us, though I doubt the actions of such morally bankrupt, ireful people are even going to phase us. So keep on defending your faith as I will my disbelief and find discussions with the more rational posters here. Cheers, my friend.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer


Also, the accounts of god killing others in the bible often doesn't equate to justice by any means. We've already discussed Job and the 70K people killed for David's census. Those were not only not justice but completely immoral. One of the interesting things about this thread has been how the devout overlook or ignore the inherent immorality and unjustness of god's acts of killing.

Let´s say that God doesn´t exist.
What is killing millions of people ?

Atheists ?