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'US kills civilians to intimidate people'

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posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 04:37 AM
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You are saying that the US army is deliberately targeting civilians so that they can scare the population and demoralise them? What would this achieve exactly? Wasn't the idea to be recognised as "saviours" and "liberators"?

Are there rogue elements of the US government arming both sides of the war? Yes. Does it benefit arms sales when there is an enemy for both sides to kill? Yes. Do private security contractors benefit from these wars? Yes they do.

But average Coalition soldiers are NOT going to these countries to target and kill civilians. If that were the case, the number of civilian deaths would be about 4 times higher than they are currently. Even if you disagree with both Wars (Afghan and Iraq) surely you can see how unfounded the conclusions drawn by the OP happen to be. This is propaganda designed to stir up anti-US sentiment.

[edit on 13/8/2010 by Dark Ghost]




posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 05:06 AM
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The curtain is slowly being pulled back.

THe true terrorists are being revealed.

Spin it however you like.The world will not forget this.




posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 06:59 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Frankly, we don't have any "PROOF" that this has happened, just hearsay. I don't trust TPTB (The Powers That Be) and even though this sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory, deep down I wouldn't be surprised if we learn we did things far worse in the "War on Terror" by becoming "Terrorists" ourselves in the process. Look at all the conspiracy stuff surrounding our own government with regard to 9/11 and the OKC bombing. What are you going to believe???

What happened in Vietnam did not stay there. Much of it is now part of our historical record and there are things that we did there that we should not be proud of, however, there are very few people who understand what WAR is all about and how one should be won.

WAR is about taking away the other sides ability to wage it. It means killing everyone and everything on the other side and destroying everything there so they cannot come back generations later to do you harm. But you mamby-pamby, oh lets just hug them into submission people don't get it.

If the "Politicians" were not allowed to interfere in how WAR is waged, then we could have won Vietnam and we could win in the middle east, but our "Politicians" are too soft, too eager to kiss up and too weak to realize that our military has a job to do and let them do it. It doesn't mean we're going to be like Hitler or others from the past in conquering the world. It just means that we do the job, end the war and come home and live in peace and if we completely destroy and annihilate the enemy and all they possess in the process, so be it. That's the price for causing the WAR and if you mamby-pamby liberals out there don't like it, perhaps you should move your sorry butts right into Afghanistan and Iraq today so you can go "Hug Them into Submission" yourselves and see how that works for ya.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 06:59 AM
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Well I guess the old adage- Let me win your hearts and minds....or I will burn your damn huts down- still applies?

Did our bombings of Vietnam and burning of villages win us that war?
Did we eliminate the VC?
What makes anyone think this one will be different?

If you kill an insurgent and in the process kill a mans family you just created a new enemy. He may not be a die hard commie or muslim extremist but he will do everything in his power to kill you.You can label him whatever you want, the fact remains that you have a very pissed off person waiting for you.

Now we have been in this war longer than we were in WW2 and its not a war we will win unless we decided to extreminate all of Afghanistan outside the city of kabul.Frankly I am not sold on the security of kabul either.

Just another war zone where the rich get richer and the fighters on both side get used. When will we ever wakeup from this corporate controlled nightmare called the American Dream.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 07:02 AM
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Did anyone take notice that he is a progressive activist?

Also...

"Things go back, I believe, to World War II, to intimidate the opposition. We did it ruthlessly in Vietnam, and the most well-known Operation Phoenix, with the estimated number of civilians that we killed, numbered maybe 80,000. The number could have been doubled," he added.

What the hell? Stephen Lendman is a freak of nature. I wouldn't trust what this guy says for anything.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 07:22 AM
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thats because people there are evil even the kids and all ages theyll go up to you and start saying "mister, mister" or somethin' and at the same time start pattin you down to get your stuff. And as for the males they will nif your alone gang up and rape you those people are evil!!



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 07:43 AM
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I have seen some instances first hand where the Taliban as well as Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi military would intentionally put an ammo/weapon supply under or inside a civilian target. It is there way of starting negative propaganda against the United States. Unfortunately when this happens the target is still hit, and the civilians become a casualty of their own ignorant leaders.

Iran will most likely do the same thing, so just keep that in mind when you see on the news in the near future the Iranian government criticizing us for striking civilian targets. They are only civilian targets to the unwitting eye.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 07:49 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 

After the Taliban had almost eradicated the Opium, U$real and the NATO made deals with the Northern Alliance allowing them to grow the opium the US and NATO countries need to launder in order to stay solvent.

The Russians asked the US to stop with the heroin which the US have had to admit they are guarding and control.
they have booted out and have been arresting the "Russian Mafia" heads for some time and the ones that escaped twent to Britian ,New York, and Israel.

the US said no
mosnews.com...
Just like the FARC in Peru as soon as they said they wouldn't launder their money in US banks, the US bumped of their leader and now they are Terrorists.

where did you get your info?


northern alliance:
en.wikipedia.org...
They grow OPIUM which funds them, karzai's brother is well known as an uber drug king pin in Afghanistan



The Northern Alliance and other anti-Taliban factions --especially ethnic Pashtun groups in the east of the country-- are whole-heartedly involved in the trade. Indeed, if anything the Northern Alliance has been more closely associated with narcotics than the Taliban.
www.rawa.org...


the Taliban that work for the "Poppy" Bush, and Bryzynski's CIA may be skimming a cut but OBVIOUSLY they aren't tha same Taliban that eradicated the OPIUM in the first place.

you make me laff


[edit on 13-8-2010 by Danbones]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 07:54 AM
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Nothing new here. The US, any government for that matter, always kills civilians to intimidate and control.

What else would you call armed federales kicking down some old guys door at 3 AM and dragging his 60 year old wife out by the hair over a tax bill?

Folks are just noticing this now?

Hell, Washington himself trampled a bunch of farmers for their money. Made a big spectacle about it. Why? To intimidate and control.

Better folks get it late than never I guess.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 08:05 AM
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After reading this thread a little more, I think some of you 'anti-United States citizens' are setting yourselves up for sedition charges. You guys might want to rollback some of those comments.

Even though I have issue with the current president (and our previous one), you will not find me posting something that compromises my loyalty (patriotism).

Remember, your IP address and screen name are attached to each other in a database. All it takes is some government official to walk in with a court order, and the site owners will have no other choice but to comply. I wouldn't give anyone in the government an excuse to attempt such an act.

Something to think about.

[edit on 13-8-2010 by Section31]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by Section31
After reading this thread a little more, I think some of you 'anti-United States citizens' are setting yourselves up for sedition charges. You guys might want to rollback some of those comments.

Even though I have issue with the current president (and our previous one), you will not find me posting something that compromises my loyalty (patriotism).

Something to think about.

Why be loyal/a patriot to a country that is destroying our planet and its people? I admit, the small mind and heart feels a stimulation from being patriotic but when you investigate patriotism just a tiny bit, stepping away from the 'good feelings' you'll see it's another control mechanism.

Be loyal to your family and friends, help mankind, love our planet, but [snip] the country, it's methods, its flag, its politicians, its capitalism. Do not let the illusion of patriotism lead your heart over your head.

[edit on 13-8-2010 by and14263]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 08:11 AM
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this ain't nothing, back in nam we napalm a whole village, we bomb all their industrial complex, both north and south. we sprayed agent orange all over the whole goddamn country and the effects is still there today. we dropped so many bombs there world war 2 was a joke and the bomb that didn't explode than are blowing up now, killing farmers as we speak. millions of civilians die and we tally that up with enemy combatant killed, which gave us a kill ratio of 20-1...something like that.

now what do we do? we park our warship in their harbor and shake their hands like nothing ever happened. who's complaining? 20 years from now we'd shake hands with the afghan too and the world wouldn't remember a thing. what can i say, we have got to make ourselves look fearsome even if our soldiers can't fight worth a pile of warm cow dung.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 08:17 AM
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reply to post by and14263
 

You have been warned.

That is all I am saying on the mater.

[edit on 13-8-2010 by Section31]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism
I have been saying this for a long time, it is good to hear it come out of someone else's mouth:



"There have been many, many thousands of Afghan civilians, men, women and children deliberately targeted, deliberately killed to intimidate the population," Stephen Lendman told Press TV on Thursday.

"Things go back, I believe, to World War II, to intimidate the opposition. We did it ruthlessly in Vietnam, and the most well-known Operation Phoenix, with the estimated number of civilians that we killed, numbered maybe 80,000. The number could have been doubled," he added.

He said the United States military presences in Iraq and Afghanistan is tantamount to war crime.

www.presstv.ir...

I wouldn't call it intimidation, rather terrorism.

They simply terrorize the public in to submission.

This is backed by the fact that over 500 Afghan elders (who were against the occupation) have been killed/died in suspicious circumstances:



At least 500 Afghan tribal leaders, who were against the invasion of the country by US-led forces, have been suspiciously killed in Kandahar in the past eight years.

According to a list received by Press TV's correspondent in Afghanistan, more than 500 tribal leaders in the southern provinces of Afghanistan especially Kandahar have been killed in suspicious manners after the US invasion of the country in 2001.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

What do you guys think?

Thoughts..



ya know, we are so stupid!

we keep killing and killing and killing and no one seems to want to bow down to the US!

so we kill some more and more, all kinds of death raining down with weapons our enemies only dream about!

and still! they keep coming and coming and won't die till we kill every mofo

on the planet cept the person holding the trigger.

that's alot of work if you ask me.


cost lots of money too, all them bullets and stuff. they just won't give up!

what's a superpower to do?

kill, kill, kill, i want to kill but they won't let me. good thing about that.

coz i would be a combo of Hannibal and Genghis khan with a dash of Vlad the impaler.

or maybe a spoonful of Vlad.

i don't know anymore, blow up a market coz you don't have a tank. lol, ok, how long would the tank last if it was in the view of an a-10?

in my opinion, the terror idiots, can i say that? need a bit of restraint.

ya, of course the amount of slaughter is beyond genocide, i understand, where is the figure now? 1 mill since 2001? should be about wipe out after 9 or 10 years.

look to your own people dummy. if you and your friends were smart, ya'll wait a couple and play the game, buy from the US and THEN you can stab everyone in the back with better results!

please, don't thank me!



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by Section31
reply to post by and14263
 

You have been warned.

That is all I am saying on the matter.

Please either grow up or U2U me what I have been warned about as I think this thread will move off topic.

The mods are the only people here who can warn me and I see no warning message in my in box.

What is your issue? (I bet a pound to a penny that your posts disappear once school term starts again).



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by and14263
 

You need to read my first post. I didn't give you a moderator's warning. I gave you another type of warning. You should be very-very cautious about some of the things you write. You never know who is watching.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 08:28 AM
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reply to post by Section31
 

OK I see, I thought you were warning me about insulting you or something... for my reaction I will apologise, sorry.

However I will say, I honestly don't care about insulting the murderous, psychotic government that runs/pretends to run America. I love most of the civilians there, the ones who are willing to be good people, but I truly hate the country and the way it's run.

I hate the control it has over its people and I hate the way it controls people and makes them think. I hate the way it suppresses education and promotes patriotism. It is a cancer on our planet, and like cancer it has spread. The UK is the same. Many other countries will be going that way.

Once again, I apologise for telling you to grow up.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by and14263
 

No problem, man. I can understand some of your anger.

Even though I don't like what our government is doing, I still believe in the good nature of our fellow US citizens. We have many honorable men and women fighting to protect our borders, and many of them will die because they actually believe in our founding tenants. It is okay to be upset with the actions in which our government is taking; however, the United States (the citizens and military) are good and honorable people.

We just have to remind everyone as to why we are here. Our country is going through its version of the Dark Ages, and it will take sometime to get us back on track.

Remember, the decisions were made at the top. Our military has no choice but to follow orders, for as long as those orders do not put us into harm's way. President Obama and Bush are taking us away from what the United States is all about; however, we will still exist after they leave both office and Earth.

Our mission as United States citizens is to rebuild our nation, but in a manner in which reflects the goodness in our hearts and minds. I personally believe we will have our time.

I still believe in the United States.

[edit on 13-8-2010 by Section31]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 09:01 AM
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I hate garbage like this from people that have no clue what's going on over there. Just pisses me off to see ignorant anti us propaganda especially regarding our military.

The last poll taken of Afghani citizens showed that 72% support the US presence in afghanistan. The percentage of women is even higher. No offense but if we intentionally targeted civvies then that number wouldn't be that high.

THe US military does more to prevent civiliian casualties than any foreign military in the world.

The Taliban has a habit of intimidating villagers into hiding weapons and their soldiers.

These Taliban soldiers or at the very least the people who trained them have recieved CIA training in regards to guerilla warfare. They are extremely competent.

They used a fear and intimidation based battle strategy. Because they couldn't be effective in direct combat. This means the use of weapons and tactics that do take out civilians. This means the use of weapons and improvised explosive devices that maim and leave carnage in their wake. They are every bit as scary as the VC as far as the things they do to enemy combatants. They want you to see your buddy with his leg blown off from a claymore. Or you to see your buddy struggling to breathe with nails caked in his bodies.

US specops particularly the Delta contingents as a matter of practice befriend the villages and provide free modern medical care as well as other assistance to assist them with their agricultural development and security. The villages welcome them and frequently direct them to members of the Taliban.

The US doesn't intentionally kill civillians. Define a civillian. Does someone hiding taliban combatants in their home a civillian or an accomplice?

The Taliban tries to get the villagers and tribal leaders to assist them through murder, fear and intimidation. The US uses medical care, agricultural development, technology and security. WHo are the bad guys there?

99.9% of the us military abides by the rules of engagement and are honorable soldiers trying their damnedest to prevent civillian casualties and protect these people from the Taliban. With about 100,ooo troops in afghanistan your going to have a few bad apples. But you've seen less than 10 troops committing what is considered a warcrime.

SOmeone brought up the Wikilinks stuff. They are frickin field reports. Do you have any idea what a field report is and how inaccurate they are? They aren't admissable in a tribunal because they are so errant.

Are you even aware of the extreme level of medical assistance that delta medics have provided these villages? Have you seen the atrocities that many of these tribal peoples, adults and more kids, have suffered at the hands of the Talibans terror attacks against its own people? The Taliban frequently targets medical and aid workers so that the only way for the villages to function without suffering these atrocities is to cooperate with the Taliban. But still the villages choose the US assistance more than 3/4ths of the time.

www.bbc.co.uk...

The simple fact is if you haven't served over there or accompanied some of the contigents then you are speaking from a position of compete ignorance.

There have been about 25,000 Taliban terrorists killed since we went to afghanistan. COnsidering the guerilla nature of their attacks that's a decent number. Most of the current taliban soldiers are new recruits, most of which are forced into service due to fear and intimidation of their villages and families. Some of the Taliban leaders have defected to support the US backed Afghan government. Many of their high level leaders have been killed or captured. Their infrastructure is wiped out. Now they are more scattered and unorganized than ever.

We are doing an exceptional job over there. We have the support of the government and more importantly almost 3/4ths of the population. We have crippled the Taliban. We crippled AL Quaeda. THere hasn't been a succesful terror attack on US soil since we've been there. We're doing our job to protect the US and all of the other freedom loving nations of the world. We're doing our job protecting the Afghan people who have been opressed by the Taliban. And we're doing our best to prevent civillian casualties.

A handfull of bad soldiers who have committed warcrimes is certainly newsworthy, but not to the point where it overshadows all the good we've done.

We've knowingly entered a war that we knew we couldn't achieve 100% victory. Limiting the soldiers by not using the full might of the US military further compounds that situation. And our efforts can't do anything to change how the Taliban recruits. We can't be everywhere at once with the present number of troops. We'd literally have to occupy every village with a small troop contigent to stop the taliban from kidnapping and terrorising villages into giving up their young men. We will never create a stable government in this country's mismash of ethnic, tribal and religous groups. So our best hope considering the limited scope of our war(something the enemy isn't concerned with), is to establish a temporary antitaliban government and to cripple the Taliban to the point where it won't be effective for years to come. And we're there. But until Afghanistan establishes a state sponsered military and until the villagers stand up for themselves and are supported by an Afghani military then the Taliban will continue to exist. So short of us sending in 1/2 a million troops and unleashing the full might of the US armed forces and being prepared to stay for a couple years after this, as well as assisting India and Pakistan with eradicating the Taliban there, we won't eliminate them. By the way, the reason we haven't unleashed the US military monster at it's full capacity is out of concern for civillians, it's not possible to wage a full scale war in that environment without suffering an inordinate amount of civvie casualties. And we won't do that.

So to all those who have never served in the military in a foreign conflict in the Middle East or anywhere else for that matter, to all those who haven't been on aid missions to Afghanistan, to all those who haven't been over there in any capacity... If you choose to believe every piece of Anti US propaganda that you see, if you believe our military is killing civillians and committing warcrimes every day, your speaking from a position of ignorance. Slap on a screw the US tshirt and go with one of the Taliban sympathetic aid groups to assist the afghan people. See how long the Taliban lets you live when you get there. They don't care if your an American who is against the US operations in Afghanistan. They don't care if you come on your little discussion board and bash the US every day. They still want to kill you. ANd if they get a chance, they will. Regardless of your support of them or condemnation of the US, they will murder you and make an example of you if they get a chance. Think about that.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 09:05 AM
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war is like childbirth, it gives you amnesia.


get off the killing fields the us is supposed to create.

people get killed in wars, mostly thoes that can't defend themselves. on both sides.

according to some, i am personally responsible for deaths. being american.

i kinda take that bad.


lol, i guess i better worry when everyone is talking about monaco instead of the us and israel being the bully of the world.

no offence monaco!



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