'US kills civilians to intimidate people'

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posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Umm Ooz you can go on and on about this.......but i served multiple tours over there and if you are gonna sit here and spew this garbage that the taliban doesnt use civilians as cover then you are either completely IGNORANT of the facts, or you are COMPLICIT......

Are you a taliban sympathizer? Should we be watching YOU?

YOu cannot even COMPARE the use of a roadside bomb to military strikes......first off you make it sound like it was just an ACCIDENT that it went off on these civilians......

Are you living in a hole or are you not aware that these idiots are running into squares, mosques and restaurants blowing themselves up WHERE THERE ARE NO SOLDIERS.......

Give me a break man, now youre just losing it......




posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Oh come on oooz. You know as well as I do that when stories come out about how the Taliban really act towards civilians that many here at ATS try to sweep it under the rug. Here are some of the latest threads about those warm and fuzzy pranksters known as the Taliban.

Just a bunch of misunderstood individuals.



Here you go.
For your reading pleasure.
Check out the extreme level of denial going on by the apologists.




UN Report says Taliban responsible for 76% of All Civilian Casualties

Afghan Women Fear Their Fate Amid Taliban Negotiations

SHOCKING: Afghan teenager brutally mutilated

Eight Foreign Doctors Executed by Taliban

Taliban publicly flog, then execute pregnant woman in Afghanistan

[edit on 12-8-2010 by SLAYER69]



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Can you name one war in history in which there were no civilians killed, where no atrocities occurred, and all warring side agreed to play by the rules?

I don't tolerate the intentional killing of innocents either and believe that those who do such action should be punished severely, but IMO you are trying to crucify the entire US military for the action of a few.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Wait a minute Slayer, are you suggesting that Taliban should be responsible for less civilians deaths because they apparently have guided missiles, Jets, Tanks, Drones, Helicopters, Satellites, one of the best intelligence organization etc etc and they have troops which $1000000 is spent on each year.

And are you suggesting the Taliban is that organized to control their radical fighters from doing stupid, reckless, viscous, and inhumane things?

Let's see, US with its huge control over its military still saw the raping and murder of a whole family by their members.
U.S. Soldier Said to Rape Iraqi Teen, Kill Family

Even though the US has huge intelligence which spends billions on, they still manage to bomb innocent people to smithereens.
NATO airstrike kills 27 civilians in Afghanistan

With all the guided missiles, still knowingly innocent people are targeted.
US airstrike killed at least 52 civilians, including several women and children

With all the helicopters innocent people are still murdered, and then hidden, not a surprise there.
” one says, “it’s their fault for bringing kids into a battle.”

This is the only actual leak which is worth while, which shows the true extent to which the US would go to terrorize people in to submission and then hide the evidence.

Imagine how many cases like this one has been hidden under the carpet



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Thats all you have there my friend? And i could send you BOOKS of incidences with the Taliban using tactics to kill civilians AS THEIR BATTLE STRATEGY, NOT AS AN ACCIDENT!

Seriously you know as well as I do that the Taliban and all their lil extreme off shoots, DO THIS INTENTIONALLY. And they have since WAY before the US was involved....

You know damn good and well that for every 1 thing you come up with where there was a civilian ACCIDENT on the US side, I can come up with PAGES where the Taliban did it as a matter of TACTIC.

Willful ignorance Ooz........willful ignorance.......



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:02 PM
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First, I'd like to say that accidents will happen. There will be times where we take fire and call in air support and the coordinates are off or misunderstood. Yes, innocents die, but they're not purposely murder for intimidation methods.

So, who here knows how the Taliban insurgents operate? Who's seen the way they conduct their ambushes and attacks. Please, raise your hand. *raises hand*

Oozy, if you can raise your hand of having first hand knowledge of how they conduct themselves and not just believing what some idiot says on the TV or in an article, then I'll leave you be. But, sadly, I don't think that's the case. I think you're just looking for a reason to cause an uproar. And that's just sad.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by oozyism
 




YOu cannot even COMPARE the use of a roadside bomb to military strikes......first off you make it sound like it was just an ACCIDENT that it went off on these civilians......

Do you know what an IED is? If you have been to Afghanistan twice now then you should know what an IED is by now, and how many types of IED etc etc. That being said, no you can't compare an air strike to an IED, an air strikes have precise coordinates, IEDs are mostly based on dumb luck, but good intelligence is required to plant them in a place where occupying forces mobilize.

There are remote IEDs which always hits the target, then there are trigger based etc etc.



Are you living in a hole or are you not aware that these idiots are running into squares, mosques and restaurants blowing themselves up WHERE THERE ARE NO SOLDIERS.......

Are you talking about Iraq now?



Give me a break man, now youre just losing it......

Actually it is the opposite, America is losing it, obvious, it is in the spot light, now they are trying to put the blame somewhere else for their huge failures in Afghanistan (hence Pakistan).

They have not achieved anything to date, they haven't even got a proper and fair Democracy. Then again why would you install Democracy after spending billions of dollars to steal and occupy that land>? That's dumb.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


I've always known this is how they operate both abroad and at home. Not just the US.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by Unity_99]



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
(The Taliban denied responsibility
)
Edit to ADD: I think they did accept responsibility.


Actually, they just claimed responsiblity.


Originally posted by oozyism
By the way, what makes you think Americans follow their manuals? That deserves a LOL.


What makes you think the Taliban follow theirs? They never have.


Originally posted by oozyism
Human shields? That is what you said about Hamas, and it ended up being the opposite, it was actually the IDF who was taking Palestinians as human shields lol.

Are you making the same mistake again?

Any evidence of your claim?


Hamas and Taliban hiding out in villages filled with civilians. That's called using a human shield. You even said it in one of your first posts in this lame-ass thread of yours.

That good enough evidence?
You supplied it yourself!

[edit on 12-8-2010 by oozyism]



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


lol yes my friend ive been there many times




Do you know what an IED is? If you have been to Afghanistan twice now then you should know what an IED is by now, and how many types of IED etc etc. That being said, no you can't compare an air strike to an IED, an air strikes have precise coordinates, IEDs are mostly based on dumb luck, but good intelligence is required to plant them in a place where occupying forces mobilize. There are remote IEDs which always hits the target, then there are trigger based etc etc.


If you believe the above statement then it directly contradicts your earlier statment that it was an "accident"




Actually it is the opposite, America is losing it, obvious, it is in the spot light, now they are trying to put the blame somewhere else for their huge failures in Afghanistan (hence Pakistan). They have not achieved anything to date, they haven't even got a proper and fair Democracy. Then again why would you install Democracy after spending billions of dollars to steal and occupy that land>? That's dumb.



Going completely off topic in the above statement and circumventing the WHOLE conversation.........I dont care what your "Ideas" are on America losing or winning the war or how our Republic is run......

The issues were over what you posted on Americans using TALIBAN methods in practice.........Not whether you think America sucks or not.....
Has NOTHING to do with my reply to you.....


[edit on 12-8-2010 by ManBehindTheMask]



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Wait a minute Slayer, are you suggesting that Taliban should be responsible for less civilians deaths



Exactly...

When you consider the very real FACT that the Taliban are on the ground and are face to face with many of the civilians they've killed, In many cases they actually knew the people they were killing having hid their weapons in their homes and accepted their hospitality under Afghanistan cultural law of not turning away a stranger.

So yes it is worse.

They should be responsible for a hell of a lot less than 76% of civilian casualties.

Regarding PressTV's credibility.


Come on oos they are totally biased.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


Ohh GOSH, I wish the Afghan resistance had their own propaganda machine and couple of Satellite up there to brainwash Americans the same way Americans are brainwashing Americans.

The naivety is too deep.

To think that over a million $ is spent on each soldier each year, and to expect them not to behave would be idiotic, and yet they do .

The Taliban spends zilch, their fighters will do stupid things, if you don't expect that, then you are just another brainwashed foul. They are not organized, they are resistance + Guerrilla fighters. They didn't receive expensive training like the occupying forces, they are simply local people, from that land, not from the American or European continent.

Think about the superiority of the sides, and their weapon + intelligence.

It is funny how propaganda have them in such a tight grip that they can't think beyond what they have been programmed to think.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by Echo3Foxtrot
Oozy, if you can raise your hand of having first hand knowledge of how they conduct themselves and not just believing what some idiot says on the TV or in an article, then I'll leave you be. But, sadly, I don't think that's the case. I think you're just looking for a reason to cause an uproar. And that's just sad.


Oozy doesn't have a clue. He's on here daily, coming up with some anti-US post, usually about civilians being killed in A-stan.

Of course, when that CIVILIAN medical team was murdered by Taliban, he didn't have much to say about that. Most of ATS didn't say much, either.

And the UN report from last year that claimed most civilian deaths were from the Taliban, not NATO. He never seems to remember that, either.

Either way, the most "combat" Oozy has seen has been when he was fighting for the TV remote with his little brother.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:19 PM
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I find it sad that the only argument against some of the stuff the US is doing is "Well look what the Taliban does!"

Congratulations, we are now in the same sentence with the Taliban.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
They are not organized, they are resistance + Guerrilla fighters. They didn't receive expensive training like the occupying forces, they are simply local people, from that land, not from the American or European continent.


Wrong! These aren't the same people as in Iraq. These are men with actual military training. They're smart and getting smarter. They know our ROE and they know how to make things very difficult for us. Not only that, but they know how to set up one hell of an ambush. You ever actually see the TTP's? These guys know what they're doing. They know military tactics. Furthermore, they know most of our SOPs and they're using that knowledge against us. They use very detailed ambushes to hit us hard. L shaped ambushes with IEDs on LOGISTIC convoys. That's just a small taste of what they do.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
I think the first comment on the article by an Iranian it seems speaks volumes.


www.presstv.ir...
AKA
Fri, 13 Aug 2010 00:38:06 GMT
The main reason U.S. kills civilian is because they are trained to become brain dead. Reading the blogs by American posted on CNN and Fox site reveals how backward, uncivilized and insensitive about killing innocent civilian. They have no respect for human and the think they are better race and that their down fall. Frankly what make us superior compare to muscle head, brain dead American is our way of thinking about human race as a whole.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki days aren't to far past. Not much American thought paid to that. But "it was to save American lives" the argument has always gone. The actual reason was to demonstrate to the Soviets that the US was bad-ass, along with justifying the extreme cost in developing the bombs.

No country is brought to justice until after it is soundly beaten. US sponsored WWII war crimes trials only focused charges on what the losers had done which the winners hadn't. Therefore no German was convicted of or executed for bombing whole civilian cities. Therefore bombing whole civilian cities wont be considered a crime until the US is brought up on charges, which won't happen until the US is crushed.

In the mean-time anyone who makes a cheap bomb that kills few at a time is a terrorist while those who use multi-billion dollar weapons systems that kill scores or hundreds at a time are some how not terrorists. Most Americans do seem to be soul dead, even when they aren't exactly brain dead.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by pthena]



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Once again man, this isnt about "propaganda" unless your talking about the propaganda that you are spreading on this POST.......

I dont care what you think about our military complex, this POST has NOTHING to do with politics or what you think about Americans back in the states and what they think!

Youre getting off topic in your OWN post because you dont want to address the FACTS......

And hey dude, I dont have to listen to "American Propaganda" I was there myself and so were my buddies!

You know whats funny, you sit here and talk about how American propaganda has painted us as so innocent...........ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME, do you even WATCH our news?

WE GET BURNED AT EVERY TURN.........

Address the OP man......stay with it or admit your loss......



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by TheFinalTruth14
 


Actually, the argument is that this is bogus. We're not killing innocent civilians on purpose, the Taliban set it up to seem as such. They're using military tactics and psychological tactics to beat us. I'm not gonna lie, they fight hard and they fight well. And they're using their tactics to turn the public against us. THAT'S the argument.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by jerico65
 




Actually, they just claimed responsiblity.


They accepted responsibility, if you can remember the first report was robbers who killed the aid workers (Christian missionary aid workers).



What makes you think the Taliban follow theirs? They never have.

There is no organization, they are expected to follow it, if they don't there is not structure to hold them accountable. Then again you don't take in to consideration the details of the two groups facing each other do you now>?



Hamas and Taliban hiding out in villages filled with civilians. That's called using a human shield. You even said it in one of your first posts in this lame-ass thread of yours.

That good enough evidence? You supplied it yourself!

What evidence?

I said the Hamas claim was false, Israel was accusing them and then Israel was the one recorded on camera taking Palestinians as human shields.

The odd thing is that you don't say US military is holding Afghan villagers hostage when you see them in those villages lol but when you see the resistance fighters you claim they are holding those villagers hostage.

See how you are brainwashed?
www.salon.com...

Watch the picture carefully and here is a question, if the Taliban had jets would you say it is alright and not terrorism for them to call for air strikes targeting US troops while knowing civilians and innocent people are around?

Then again you will ignore everything



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Hey there Moozi,
Finally i think we can agree on something, the fact
that the US and other occupying forces have lost their way with
regards to their targeting. Too many civilian casualties to be just
inaccurate coordinates! But i disagree with your assertion that they
have not acheived their objectives. They have acheived everything
they aimed to. To control the cultivation of the poppy plantations
and its protection.





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