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Do I have Intellectual Property Rights for what I Write?

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posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:46 PM
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Oy. Vey...

There seems a degree and/or sense of obstinance, intentional indignance, or outright obtuse mentions and missives being toyed about here. (?)

Again,
It's quite simple...

YOU post it on the boards, YOU own it ... ATS merely has NON-exclusive rights to the same.

YOU publish your posts and/or contributions here ... make a Mint from the same ... Good on You.


ATS may or may not choose to do the same ... at her discretion




posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:54 PM
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Trust me, what you have to type on a conspiracy website isn't gold. For Christ's sake, ATS is a free platform for you to post your content. I can understand griping about the 'fine print' on a service where you're a paying customer, but you've never paid a red penny to access this platform.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:59 PM
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Let me clarify a couple things, then get to some specific points.

Firstly, there are many people (including lawyers) who don't fully comprehend copyright law... and while I'm certainly no expert, I've been involved in making sure we get it right. And, we're about to engage a well-renowned intellectual property law firm to ensure we continue getting it right.

As a matter of course and common sense, if you post anything anywhere on a service you do not operate online you are giving up your exclusive right to what you posted. We simply go through the effort of making it clear and being as above-board as we possibly can. We would be in our most-absolute correct state-of-mind if we decided to demand exclusive rights -- in all forms -- for what you post here, and many such user-generated sites actually do that. But we don't. We make it clear that you retain your ownership, and give us the ability to use it as we wish.

But that doesn't mean we're going to leave our members out of the equation. Some examples...

1) Several members have become serious about writing in the "conspiracy" genre, and have asked us to pursue online plagiarism of their work here. And we have gone through the effort (and occasional expense) of doing so. And, in some cases, we've removed significant contributions from members who have informed us they're seeking professional writing contracts that include some of the ATS topics for which they've contributed, and the existing of the material here may harm their contract. Our over-arching goal has always been, and will always be the promotion of what our members do.

2) A few members have risen to the top in various ways (conspiracy masters, video hosts, comic writers, etc.) and when that happens we work out ways to help them realize income... usually through an equitable split of the advertising their work attracts. For example, while John Lear was a "Conspiracy Master," he placed his own advertising on the pages in his dedicated forum.

3) Whenever we use a member's contributions in anything that might generate additional attention (such as our book and videos) we always credit the member by name and provide a link to their threads.



Now... some specific points for clarity...



Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Good question, now I wonder that too. I am posting some short stories, and post them elsewhere as well because they are mine. I won't share my stories here anymore if for some reason by posting here we lose our rights to our property.

As mentioned above, you do not lose your rights. We're publishers, not copyright hoarders.



Originally posted by ghostsoldier
[Yeah, but technically ATS owns what I write, so technically I have no legal basis to sue if I get plagiarised,

You can sue, but it would be pointless as copyright suits are based on lost-revenue and related damages.

However, you can ask us to have it removed from other sources (as referenced in our T&C's) and we will fight on your behalf.



Originally posted by gwydionblack
ATS staff can use out writing as they see fit, to earn money, to promote, or anything otherwise without our permission. To me, it seems like quite a steep price to pay for voicing one's own opinions. In fact, I would go as far as to say that the rule is draconian in its existence on these forums.

As mentioned above, if we had not made the statement that we take non-exclusive rights, we could certainly do all those things and more, then sue you if you used your posts elsewhere. Which is the actual standard default model of posting anywhere online that doesn't make the statement we've made.

In a broad sense, yes we certainly can use what you contribute for additional profitable ventures of The Above Network, LLC. Our content ecosystem concept relies on that to a large extent. However, our track record of constantly seeking to promote what our members do, and helping many members earn from what they do on ATS, speaks more to what we've done than what we might do.



Originally posted by ghostsoldier
Yeah, but technically the owners of ATS could write a book from ATS members user generated content, but they dont have to pay me for my content. OR give me credit.

We've used portions of member content in our book and in our videos... but we always give credit and links.



Originally posted by 2weird2live2rare2die
i don't like the idea that i don't own the things i say on this forum.

You do own your words here... you simply give us the right to publish them.



Originally posted by ghostsoldier
The example of a short story was suggested by someone earlier...
ETA: What if one of the owners entered that in a contest and won $1million?

We could not do such a thing since we do not own the work.



We have professional writers and journalists posting and contributing here without concern. Our members should not be concerned as well.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


Only 1 question:

What to do if/when one decides to cite a post authored from before 2007?

Above Network, LLC didn't exist back as an entity.

Does the attribution cover citations retroactively or does one attribute the posting to a different entity co-owner?

If the remote chance of no and yes, which co-owner to atttribute to, since the current entity got registered in 2007?



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by ghostsoldier
 


I WAS going to actually post a couple books I wrote, then I actually GREW a brain and said, WHAT THE HELL would I do that for.

Tell you what, since you bring this up. Take ALL of your information and make a contract with another, even if it is yourself as a corporation. Make a contract and make it exclusive. If this site attempts to use YOUR content without you permission, then your partner, can SUE for breach of contract.

Always nice to understand LAW.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


Thank you SO, I appreciate you taking the time to answer, and by no means am I trying to be rude or provocative, I am just curious for future reference.

Now I just have a few more:

Does this apply to the person who wrote it in the first place?



Attribution. You must attribute authorship of the work to "jjjtir; a member of AboveTopSecret.com", and include the title of the message thread, Do I have Intellectual Property Rights for what I Write?; and this full link URL to the post: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Noncommercial. You may not use this work for commercial purposes. This includes display on any website that contains advertising, accepts member donations, or any other form of monetary compensation. Display must be open to the general web browsing public with no access restrictions.

No Derivative Works. You may not alter, transform, or build upon this work.




So for example: If I write a short story (and post it here of course), and then proceed to alter, transform and build upon it - and enter it into a competition or turn it into a screen-play that gets picked up, I put it up on my own website without attributing my work to the original post I made here and go on to make $1million off that original post --
am I required to give ATS 50% (or any) of my earnings?





Thank you for your patience - and there is no need to be concerned



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
Yeah, but technically the owners of ATS could write a book from ATS members user generated content, but they dont have to pay me for my content. OR give me credit.

We've used portions of member content in our book and in our videos... but we always give credit and links.

But you technically don't have to?



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by ghostsoldier
 


If you want an example of how Above Top Secret could use member contributions, you should check out the Jim Marrs/ATS collaborative book that was published a couple years ago:

Above Top Secret at Google Books.

Brief snippets of ATS posts were used (they're highlighted in blue) in each section.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by americandingbat
 


Looks like a cool book

Pages 242 to 290 are blocked, but I see the blue comment boxes - is there an acknowledgment page at the back listing the users responsible?



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 10:46 PM
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I'm not worried about ATS using my material. It's the other members that I worry about. If you want to protect your intellectual property; a public forum isn't the place for it.

mason.gmu.edu...



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by ghostsoldier
 


It is a pretty cool book, actually. And nicely typeset and stuff. I was pretty impressed with it overall


Unfortunately, mine's in a box right now and not very accessible so I can't check about credits in the back



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by saltheart foamfollowerTake ALL of your information and make a contract with another, even if it is yourself as a corporation. Make a contract and make it exclusive. If this site attempts to use YOUR content without you permission, then your partner, can SUE for breach of contract.


Actually, "your partner" Can't. Agreeances made upon account registration dissolve Exclusive rights to Any posts or contributions made afterwards


Always nice to understand LAW.


It is.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's like that bone your dog continues to knawl on despite the marrow having long-since been devoured, diminished and/or depleted.
:shk:

vacant ring a bell?



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 10:57 PM
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I'd be interested to see one of the ATSers wander in whose stuff was used in that Jim Marrs book and to get their spin upon how they feel about it. Might be interesting to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak.

Just my thoughts on it!



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 11:03 PM
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Well I read about 1 1/2 pages, sorry if this is already mentioned.

Why not post your content in your own personal domain first, and state your copyright in that medium. Then bring it to ATS in the form of a quote.

ATS has the right to use your post, but the quotation is from a separate source which claims the immediate copyright. If the "ATS User" posts the content without quotations and source; he/she is asserting that the immediate user created the content, the user has already given rights to ATS, so anything posted is aloss. But in the form of quotes and sourcing, rights remain in the hands of the original source.

But I'm no expert.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by Scarcer]



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 11:24 PM
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Well I do a lot of posting here.

A lot.

Original ideas, news stories, short stories, Collaboratives etc..

I've had ATS go to bat for me once when I found my posts on another website (they'd even created an account with my username) and the issue was resolved almost instantly.

I'm not worried about them attempting to make a mint off my ideas and my writtings, and even if I was, the T&C is clear and easy to understand.

Just the fact that ATS hasn't published ProtoplasmicTraveler's All Roads Lead To Rome thread or one of the other MANY ridiculously amazing works on the forums, leads me to believe they have no such ambitions.

~Keeper



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
>snip<
Does this apply to the person who wrote it in the first place?
>snip<
So for example: If I write a short story...
am I required to give ATS 50% (or any) of my earnings?

I'm confused as to why anyone would think that to be remotely the case. It's your work.

It's generally assumed that the wording of the Creative Commons deed applies to everyone but the owner (you) and publisher (ATS).



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


Alright, cool - call this case closed - thank you very very much! This thread can be closed then.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 01:49 AM
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Awesome responses and explanations for an important issue, Skeptic!

And Esoteric Teacher -

"no part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in or introduced into any information storage and/or information retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form, or by any means (electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording or otherwise), without the prior written permission of both the copyright owner and above publisher of this book."

not really possible, is it? i mean, i'm taught that my body, my cells, and even my dna are in fact "information storage and retrieval systems".

according to the wording, one can interpret it to mean that remembering what you read is illegal, since one legally needs prior permission to store the words in any information storage and retrieval system. of course, by learning this, we have already demonstrated a capacity for breaking the laws, since we are utilizing the languages that were illegal to learn in order to communicate illegally about what is legally permissive information we can share.

You had me on the floor!!



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 02:19 AM
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i was viewing some images online and came upon this, and thought of this thread. i may not agree with it, but i thought i would share:



[edit on 13-8-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 02:25 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Let me clarify a couple things, then get to some specific points.

Firstly, there are many people (including lawyers) who don't fully comprehend copyright law... and while I'm certainly no expert, I've been involved in making sure we get it right. And, we're about to engage a well-renowned intellectual property law firm to ensure we continue getting it right.

As a matter of course and common sense, if you post anything anywhere on a service you do not operate online you are giving up your exclusive right to what you posted. We simply go through the effort of making it clear and being as above-board as we possibly can. We would be in our most-absolute correct state-of-mind if we decided to demand exclusive rights -- in all forms -- for what you post here, and many such user-generated sites actually do that. But we don't. We make it clear that you retain your ownership, and give us the ability to use it as we wish.



OUCH...I really hope you guys have researched that statement clearly......as we all know, we only lease our time and energy to the people and places that we work for. (Unless stated otherwise in a formal contract between two consenting parties that are of legal age and of sound mind and body).

You all should really get better Legal Counsel.



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