Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Jakes51
Jake, when there is sanctions, who do you think is effected?
Of course the people are affected. Sanctions are a messy affair and I personally see no use for them. Instead of punishing the leaders directly they
punish the whole. It is so backwards it is sickening!
However, most of the despotic rulers are so insulated from the everyone and everything that the only way to feasibly hold them accountable is by
sanctions if war is not a feasible alternative. Hopefully, it smokes out the indiscretions of their leaders and the people in some capacity can
address the issue. Still, I find them as a morbid solution to international problems.
Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Jakes51
You have to be kidding yourself to think that the N-Korean economy would thrive with all these sanctions imposed on it. And don't use Nuclear Bomb as
an excuse for the sanctions because the US has 100X more than N-Korea.
You are correct and the economy is not going to thrive. Perhaps, that is the purpose? Apparently, the international community is attempting to smother
the leadership and at the expense of the people which is wrong. However, that seems to be the case and the North Korean leadership are no angels by
any stretch.
The nuclear bomb is a great excuse for sanctions. The Korean Peninsula is a volatile place and has been at war since 1953. It gives North Korea more
leverage in bullying its neighbors with threats of war and devastation. Plus they are a threat to its neighbors, besides South Korea. Even North
Korea's own sole benefactor, China, is at a state of unease over it.
The Chinese government has been trying to achieve denuclearization on the Korean Peninsula and opposes proliferation of nuclear weapons in an effort
to maintain peace and stability in northeast Asia.
timesofindia.indiatimes.com...
. . . China fears North Korea's sabre-rattling could prompt or justify Japanese remilitarisation, further defence spending in the South or increase
US military support for Seoul – shifting the regional balance of power to its disadvantage. Any military skirmish could have a devastating impact on
Sino-South Korean relations.
www.guardian.co.uk...
Both snippets are about China's views on North Korea's nuclear weapons testing. Personally, I don't see the need for the North to have nukes. If
attacked by the US or South Korea, China has all the nukes they need to deter any hostilities from their neighbors. As for the US having nukes and a
lot of them? Yes they do, but does that make it okay for nations with unhinged leadership to possess them? Why not arm every nation with nuclear
weapons regardless of how fanatical or distant they are from any reasonable human conduct? Better yet, lets turn the world into one raging inferno.
Given the unhinged nature of the Kim Jong Il's rule and his frequent outbursts; his possession of nuclear weapons is very dangerous and sanctions are
a reasonable response short of war. Kim's record speaks for itself and it is not all peaches and cream. He seems to be a delusional man, and for that
kind of person to have the power to annihilate an entire city at their very whim is very threatening for people who live near them.
Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Jakes51
Let's not forget, not long ago the US did the same exact thing against Iraq, when sanctions were imposed against Iraq over a million Iraqi babies
died in direct result of those sanctions.
Humanitarian aid doesn't help the economy Jake, I can guarantee that.
We all know US is at war with N-Korea, and for some reason doesn't want peace, if it did, it would already propose a peace treaty, instead of point
nukes at N-Korea and seeking provocation.
Yes, sanctions on Iraq were a bad thing and I am aware of the perils suffered by the people. It was a violation, and if anything; it only bolstered
Saddam's image in the eyes of the people in regards to his opposition toward the West. Saddam was batter and bruised significantly at the end of the
First Gulf War, but he needed to be dislodged from leadership.
He was a maniac and would resort to any means necessary to secure his monopoly on power. Apparently, the international leaders thought by weakening
his access to goods on the international market; it would put a strain their economy and anger his people, which would strengthen opposition groups
within the country as they set out to dislodge him. That belief failed miserably, because he annihilated the Shia opposition in the South and any
other groups opposed to his rule. Plus, he was able to broker back room deals to enrich himself at the expense of his people's suffering during the
Oil for Food Scandal.
Yes, the US and its allies are in state of war since 1953 and no official peace was brokered. They only have a ceasefire at the moment, but that can
change at any moment. All sides are at a constant state of readiness. You mention provocations, and how the US seems to be provoking the North?
However, the North has had a hand at provocations as well. From border incursions into South Korea, abductions in SK and Japan, and a steady stream of
violence along the DMZ. There are numerous occasions to validate that. So, both sides are guilty of a provocation and that happens when two combatants
are at a constant state of readiness.
Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Jakes51
and please don't post propaganda, as I said before many times in ATS, anti N-Korean propaganda is extreme and deeply rooted within Western media. So
much BS has been put forwards that now we have absolutely no idea which one is BS and which one is Real.S.
Think about it, why hasn't there ever been an uprising in N-Korea? There was even an uprising in Iraq, remember? When Saddam gassed Kurds and
Shiits?
That was when the US was Saddam's best friend 
Telegraph doesn't make any sources clear, read the article again. In University if we don't cite our sources, we would be charged with plagiarism
and sent in front of a board to decide whether it was intentional or not.
Telegraph doesn't look professional to me, you need more than that.
Propaganda seems rife these days, but when has it not been? That is why we are discussing it here and sifting through the nonsense to find a rational
view on current events. As for propaganda and North Korea? There is no need for propaganda concerning North Korea. Everyone knows they are unhinged by
the outrageous threats and statements made by the government. Plus, the facts speak for themselves. NK is a police state, people are brainwashed,
scores have succumbed to famine and deprivation, and it is currently run by an insane despotic ruler. That is not propaganda but fact. There is
information all over the place to verify what was mentioned above. Why has there not been an uprising in North Korea? The people have been isolated
from information, policed constantly, and practically starved into submission and complacency.
As for the source I used and your concerns over it? Allow me to post a few more about Kim's penchant for the finer things in life.
The few personal details that are known document his affection for the finer things in life, including lobsters and Hennessy VSOP cognac, and a
reputed 20,000 tape film library.
news.bbc.co.uk...
. . . Kim Jong Il also loves to drink a certain Hennessey cognac that sells for $630 a bottle in Korea. "He is the largest customer over the last 10
years, averaging between $650,000 and $720,000 a year in purchases -- while the average [North] Korean earns only about $900 a year.
www.cnn.com...
Robert Einhorn worked on nonproliferation for the State Department. He was a head negotiator on a diplomatic mission to North Korea six years ago.
ROBERT EINHORN: One dinner was European-style with French food and extraordinarily expensive French wine. And I think all of us were saying to
ourselves: This is really wretched excess for a regime that is essentially starving its own people.
marketplace.publicradio.org... /no_more_toys_for_kim_jong_il/
Here is a recollection of Kim lust for opulence from his former personal chef, Kenji Fujimoto.
Fujimoto said he was dazzled by Kim's massive liquor cellar, stocked with nearly 10,000 bottles. There was Johnnie Walker Swing scotch and Hennessy
XO cognac. To satisfy the Dear Leader's demanding tastes, Fujimoto was sent on international shopping trips, hauling back winter melons from China,
pork from Denmark, caviar from Iran and Uzbekistan, but especially the finest sushi from Tokyo's Tsukiji fish market, the largest in the world.
www.washingtonpost.com...
So, I hope these other sources alleviate your concerns? In my personal opinion, I think Kim Jong Il is bad news along with his lackeys. They are
depriving North Korea from growth and prosperity. Therefore, I have to respectfully agree to disagree with much of what you have said. However,
hopefully, we can agree that North Korea is a screwed up place?
[edit on 16-8-2010 by Jakes51]
) like your great great grandparent, 
