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What Pike Meant (even though you won't believe me)

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posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 03:21 PM
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There is no greater source of vitriolic damnation of Freemasonry than that which is incorrectly interpreted from the writings of Albert Pike.

There is one controversial passage in Morals and Dogma (no i haven't read the whole thing) that gives non-Masons and anti-Masons pause...



Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it.

-- Albert Pike, Morals and dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry



Let's take a look at why anti's get it wrong when they use it as an indictment of the fraternity.

Question: Doesn't Albert Pike speak for the whole of Freemasonry?

Answer: No. One of the principles we hold dear is that NO man speaks for Freemasonry. All of the Masonic authors, good and bad, over the years speak only for themselves, and only about their own experience.



Question: Isn't Morals and Dogma the authoritative work on Freemasonry?

Answer: No. Morals and Dogma is a reflection on Scottish Rite Freemasonry from the perspective of a southern General living in civil war times.



Question: Isn't Pike saying that Freemasonry is a religion?

Answer: No. Pike is comparing Freemasonry to religion/hermeticism/alchemy.

All these groups reveal only a portion of the truth at a time. There are various reasons for this, but anyone who has pursued a path of spirituality, fraternity or learning knows that you can't get in an F-16 and fly it simply from reading the pamphlet that came in the box.

Any effective mystery tradition has to unveil itself slowly and methodically in order to make sense. In addition, Pike is not implying that Freemasonry hides an agenda from all the "lower level masons" like many claim.

The truths of life are not concocted or created, they are revealed. Michelangelo didn't build 'David' from Lego blocks, he took a rough-hewn slab of stone and slowly removed the superfluous parts to reveal the masterpiece inside.

Essentially he carefully removed all the pieces that were "not David" and left the ones that were. (Apparently someone made off with a few of those over the years!)





Question: Why would Freemasonry conceal anything? Isn't the purpose claimed to be to bring people TO light rather than lead them away?

Answer: As you can see on ATS it takes very little knowledge to incite hatred about a group of people. Freemasonry (indeed all Mystery Schools) carefully conceals it's teachings but gives the aspirant all the tools needed to find them.

Those who are dishonest, disingenuous, atheistic or aspiritual, and egoistic would become enraged and confused if the teachings were simply "handed over" to them. (even if they could be handed over, which they can't).

Imagine how an untrained sculptor would feel upon seeing "David" for the first time. Michelangelo's skills would seem magical in the way they revealed this masterpiece.

On one hand Michelangelo could hand his mauls and chisels to the nearest student and let him chip away blindly until he got frustrated and began using them as weapons to defame and attack the master; on the other hand Michelangelo could choose a student who shows genuine interest and understanding and gradually lead him through the principles of sculpture until one day using the tools and techniques learned he could make his own work of art.



Anyway, in my opinion, Pike was trying to explain in the language of the day why Freemasonry does what it does.

It is unfortunate that his writing style doesn't translate well with our modern way of communicating.




posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 03:50 PM
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What Pike Meant (even though you won't believe me)

I hate to ruin the thread, but, I believe you. However, I also believe it's more like a Core 2 Duo processor in the hands of a troglodyte -- more an object of worship than one of practical value for its intended purpose. The pin array might be useful as a hair comb.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 03:50 PM
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Many people believe every conspiracy theory they hear.

From what I know, freemasonry mainly teaches good morality, good philosophy, and other good things, and the conspiracy theorists against them probably never actually read the Pike book anyway.

I also like your explanation of not being able to give everyone all the knowledge because they couldn't handle it. I totally agree. The problem is that many people in power today LIE instead of just keep the secrets. They should take some lessons from Pike about honesty.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 03:54 PM
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Masonry is not a religion.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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Interesting post, and in many cases I do agree with some of your points.


and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it.


Let's just talk about Pike himself. I am not talking about Masonry per se, unless they are all agreeing with this tenant.

Now, to use false explanations and misinterpretations, is basically LYING. Which is not 'of the light', but rather it is malicious and the purveyor of 'the darkness'.

See anytime I discover truths (aka the Light), I share them with all people no matter who they are because the 'True Light' seeks to enlighten all individuals NO MATTER WHAT.

So the fact he totally agrees with hiding things, misleading people, and passing out lies to everyone, proves he knows NOTHING about the Truth (aka Light). It proves he is ignorant and embroiled within the Falsehoods (aka Dark).

So basically Pike is a jerk as he admitted hes a lying scumbag.

Hopefully our modern Masons disagree with this crap, and reject it as utter non-sense.

It's a simple yin-yang. And Pike is for sure Dark as hell. Just think about it logically for a bit.

Big time liars who justify it with stuff like this = Dark.
People who share information/knowledge with everyone with no conditions= Light.

I will vouch for some of the Masons on this forum though, as they have shared tons of info with me. So they are definitely cooler than this guy Pike ever was or could be.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 03:58 PM
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I have found that reading a few passages before any Pike quote in question will help to steer you in the right direction of his message. Too often, his quotes are shortened and mis-represented for dramatic effect. Sadly, some who would normally be smart enough to understand his writings, are misled and turned off due to these practices.

Is it hot in Illinois? I feel like a trip to Hell would cool me off right now.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


You mean:

"Freemasons...worship...Lucifer..." - Albert Pike



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by platipus
Masonry is not a religion.


Yes it is, pretty much everything is a religion in a sense. (Or in many senses).

Even 'mainstream science' has the aura of religious blind faith based beliefs in many cases. Like gravitrons and inflatons. No proof but still they believe.

So yes, a doctrinal system such as Masonry is essentially religious at it's core because many of them believe things based entirely on "faith".

That is why it is so important to be skeptical of all the BS.

We need to carry around a barrel of salt, and pour it over our shoulder. So to speak.

I tend to think any organized belief system IS a religion. Like some people's religion is the mainstream media's point of view. Not only that, but since many media stations have different agenda's they will pick the station that best fit's their personal faith-based perspectives.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
I have found that reading a few passages before any Pike quote in question will help to steer you in the right direction of his message. Too often, his quotes are shortened and mis-represented for dramatic effect. Sadly, some who would normally be smart enough to understand his writings, are misled and turned off due to these practices.

Is it hot in Illinois? I feel like a trip to Hell would cool me off right now.


I seriously hope you and other great members of this website will reject Pike's justifications for Lying.

Unless you do agree with him? That lying is justified because you as a mason have the ultimate authority on who "deserves" or does not "deserve" to know the "Light" or "Truth"???

If you reply and say "I reject his ignorant justifications for lying" than you are cool as hell, in my book.

But if you don't reply, or reply by beating around the bush, I will have lost faith in your posts, because how do I know your not lying to me?

What upsets me the most is that anyone can consider themselves an authority on deciding who is "worthy" and who is "undeserving" of the truth.

The REAL TRUTH, is that every human being DESERVES to know the Light. That is the bottom line.

I have been very gracious to give leeway here. And I am very open to considering that his archaic and backwards beliefs are probably rejected by most Masons today.

What say you?



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
What say you?


I don't agree with all Pike has said. But I would ask you, have you read any more than this snipit before you made the assumption that Pike intentionally meant to mislead and lie to masons and non masons alike?

His writing is that of a Southern gentleman in the civil war era. He has some amazing quotes, passages and stories. It would be a shame to exclude all of them because of a misunderstanding.

I like Bruce Springsteen music to a point. I grew up with it. I always thought it was cool the way he could tell a story in a song. But then he got political and turned out to be a whining liberal and I was disgusted. Does that mean that all his music is trash now? What about Rage against the Machine? they are protesting Arizona's law. I happen to agree with Arizona's right to protect their borders. Does that mean I have to hate rage now? I hope not. Life just isn't worth living without metal.

What say you?



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
So basically Pike is a jerk as he admitted hes a lying scumbag.


So, was Mr. Miyagi a lying jerk scumbag when he was teaching martial arts to Daniel-san?

(wax on - wax off)



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


No I agree with your post totally.

Pike, like anyone else, had a lot of great points and ideas theres no question about that.

I merely objected to the statement debated above, which I still believe was a mistake on his part.

And if I could talk to him today, I could probably convince him to reword it far better because the manner he worded it in really sounds bad. At the least.

I just was curious to see what your reply was, and it was what I was looking for.

BTW I agree with your sentiments about Springsteen and RATM. They are all great musicians. Also, for the record I agree/disagree with La Rocha's positions on the AZ law.

Part of me is for it, while part of me is against it. It's a give-take and a balance that I personally think we should find, but thats' a totally diff topic.

Thanks for the good reply though Network Dude. That is exactly what I was looking for. TYVM.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 



What many have not investigated was Pikes murderous ways. He was a liar and a thief and a murderer of woman and children, but that is war isn't it? Abraham Lincoln himself declared Pike a criminal.

I have read some of Pikes, Morals and Dogma, won't say where I was privy to the book, father-in-law is deceased, respect to him, but disrespect for him as a Mason.

Maybe you Masons should read John Quincy Adams, "Letters on Freemasonry", might enlighten you a bit on what you think you know.

Masonry is luciferian, but is that a bad thing? You can not have a God without an adverse entity, maybe it is God who is bad and Lucifer is good? Maybe all of it is just a bunch of control rubbish. Black Magick and all that jazz.

Where did freemasonry start? With stone masons. Where did it all go horribly wrong? With the Vatican. They saught control and wealth by selling the idea of a secret society. Then it went political. It should have stayed a guild of craftsmen and not a bunch of politically driven, lunatic elitists.

I am a craftsmen, but would NEVER join a "lodge" just to "fit in" or be "one of the boys". I have better things to do. But I have researched the subject quite deeply. Texx Marrs has an entire library of Masonic books. From Richardson's Monitor, Duncan's Masonic Ritual and Monitor 3rd Ed. and on down, I think he even has a copy of Morals and Dogma too.

What a sad world we live in, that people actually believe in this garbage and keep "secrets" from, what they percieve, an ignorant public. How truly sad.

Oh, and for those who "believe" the public couldn't handle it, what a lame arse answer. Most people would easily understand it and toss it aside as rubbish, THAT is why it is kept secret, who in their right mind would actually believe in that crap?

It's all about control. Bottom line.


[edit on 12-8-2010 by daddio]



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by daddio
 


Here, but don't tell anyone. It's a secret. (SHHHH)

You claim to have researched deeply. Somehow I doubt that very much. There is nothing Luciferian in freemasonry. The only place you will see reference to that is in Morals and Dogma, and in the Taxil hoax. The latter is probably what you studied so deeply. You are free to believe whatever you wish, but it will make your opinion look much better if you would really understand what you hate and why. Look at both sides, not just the one that your friends tell you to see.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by muzzleflash
What say you?

He has some amazing quotes, passages and stories. It would be a shame to exclude all of them because of a misunderstanding.
What say you?




Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler, Pol Pot and Mao Tse Tung (Zedong) had some amazing quotes as well. I’m sure that 4 million dead people felt that these murders were misunderstood as well.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by Violater1
Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler, Pol Pot and Mao Tse Tung (Zedong) had some amazing quotes as well. I’m sure that 4 million dead people felt that these murders were misunderstood as well.


Poor analogy. Pike was not a murderous tyrant who propagated war with his neighbors and exterminated his country's own citizens.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by Violater1

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by muzzleflash
What say you?

He has some amazing quotes, passages and stories. It would be a shame to exclude all of them because of a misunderstanding.
What say you?




Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler, Pol Pot and Mao Tse Tung (Zedong) had some amazing quotes as well. I’m sure that 4 million dead people felt that these murders were misunderstood as well.


Did Pike commit genocide?

So you don't agree with my point. Could you elaborate a bit on that?



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
Did Pike commit genocide?


No, but he invented those KKK rituals that cause white people to renounce their fertility thus leading to their eventual extinction so long as they remain racist in sufficient numbers-- and you probably think I'm joking. Yes, indeed, these rituals can affect even the ones that are not by way of identification memes.

I don't joke or troll, ever, not even when I say I'm doing so or seem to be acting like it; all has a higher purpose and it's format is for the essentially the same reason Pike gave.

But, you wouldn't be able to recognize or see through it anyway. So, as I said, it's like the Pentium Chip, not a stabbing tool requisitioned from a marble chipper.

Listen or lack!

[edit on 8/12/2010 by EnlightenUp]



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by EnlightenUp
No, but he invented those KKK rituals...


Pike had no invlovement with the Ku Klux Klan and there is zero evidence to the contrary.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 12:47 AM
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Nobody has posted a CREDIBLE link proving Pike's creation of the of the KKK (credible being the operative word here), i.e. a source generally vetted and accepted by historians. Where is that written proof as opposed to speculation? What is so hard to understand about the fact that Pike did not speak for or represent all of Freemasonry?
And it is highly amusing to see posters so proud of themselves to have found Pikes writings or books and then post here as if they have found some heretofore rare and unavailable literature ! Seems that the library is a novel and new discovery for them (let alone a book store). Of the ATS posters/scholars who have feverishly unearthed and "discovered" this book, how many have read it as opposed to cut/pasting arbitrary and out of context portions that they "borrowed" from other like-minded conspirators? This stuff is publically available, stop patting yourselves on the back as if you are researchers. Any cogent answers here?




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