Starvation-Minnesota Starvation Experiment

Ok. The reason I am posting this thread is simple. In the West in the U.S. we are used to fast food and shoveling pounds of food in our mouth every day and cry tears of pain and shout "I'm starving!" to the person next to us and rush off to the nearest McDonalds for a quick fix of greese. Do you ever really stop and think what "Starvation" really is? Or how it really feels? My guess is, with a U.S. average obesity rate of almost 30%... dc.streetsblog.org... you have not.

I had the lovely experience of going through "The Crucible" in U.S. Marine Corps bootcamp...www.marines.com... and experiencing what it was like having 1 meal a day...almost no water breaks...over 50 miles of forced marches...yeah with 40lbs of gear on too...Even now I know I truely wasnt "Starving." I feel embarassed when in my fast paced life I find my self saying this once in a while.

"For 54 straight hours, recruits’ endurance, teamwork and skills will be pushed to the limit. Through perseverance and courage, they will finish as platoons and earn the title Marine. "

During The Crucible, recruits face:

• Obstacles that must be negotiated as a team
• Day and nighttime marches
• Night infiltration movement
• Combat resupply and casualty evacuation scenarios
• Combat field firing as a team
• Minimal food and sleep, simulating combat
• Leadership tests
• Core values training


My next point is this. The statistics are clear...library.thinkquest.org...

"The World Health Organization estimates that one-third of the world is well-fed, one-third is under-fed one-third is starving- Since you've entered this site at least 200 people have died of starvation. Over 4 million will die this year."

I know I am well fed...and there are several points to this thread. The main one is to open up your eyes to the real world. Not some 'Worse Case Situation'...not bashing anyone! Just food for thought. If you are serious about "Survival" and are all talk about "survival gear" and food, water, shelter, medical, communications, you had better be ready for the most important survival tool you'll need.

To keep your head on straight! Do you really have the mental toughness to survive when TSHTF...and your running around from riots...dragging your family around on low food and lacking energy...trust me...you will feel like shi7! Once you start talking all down about life and crying and suffering and your stomach is eating itself....you lost...so think about it.

Knowing this can save your life if you can rationalise how your feeling physically and mentally...because we have some tough times coming dont sell youself short!

Here is the most comprehensive and controlled experiement covering some of the most detailed aspects of starvation. This is the meat and potatoes of this thread so read it all so you can understand the real implications of what "IM STARVING" really means.

en.wikipedia.org...

God Speed my friends.

Oh and one more thing...we can easliy see from the statistics...TSHTF for over a third of the worlds population ALREADY! So be confident, adaptible, have a clear head that can rationalise, clear ears, and a heart full of courage because its a matter of time for our turn.

Originally posted by Reconer
Oh and one more thing...we can easliy see from the statistics...TSHTF for over a third of the worlds population ALREADY! So be confident, adaptible, have a clear head that can rationalise, clear ears, and a heart full of courage because its a matter of time for our turn.

When I was on rations on 'field exercise' for The British Armed Forces our rations damn well better than the cook's supper. And it filled me up a lot. Different calories have different purposes and meaning's.

The calories people will find in conjunction with trans-fat product's/junk food/fast food are high in calories for fat content.

Whereas I could eat 500 healthy calories and have three times as much food for 500 cal than 3 Big mac's 1500 calories or more.

I'd have 350/380 grams of Carbohydrates a day/ 220-250 grams of protein and was a total of about 70 grams fat and 2200 calories a day. Healthy calories, lol, remember Healthy calories.

So even though it didn't look a lot that's where people get it wrong because different calories for different food's.

I already stocked up on ration's six months ago and stored in my bedroom. Planning to get a crate of rations soon as I can beef up from rations and I'm not surpised with the amount of carbs and protein in them. I just take vitmin tabs and purified water tabs and plenty of home-grown fruit and vegetables. And hardly shop for food as I grow my own stock.

Very interesting. I've actually fasted for days, many times, for the health benefits and detoxification. I know first-hand that the cleaner your body is, the better off you are when not eating.

People don't realize that the fat Americans will "starve" faster, or at least die faster if everyone stopped eating. This is because when we stop eating, our body begins to detox, and a fat person just can't handle such strong detox and will die faster than the teenage anorexic girl who has been eating 2 bananas and an orange every day for years, and whose body is likely clean of toxins, and is used to not eating for long periods of time.

It's kind of like saying food is an addiction. The more you're addicted, the faster you die when you don't have it. Most people would think fat people live longer if everyone began starving. This is not true. I'll be eating fat Joe after he dies in 2 weeks, and I'm just beginning to really feel like crap.

reply to post by DClairvoyant


x2 on the British rations. Fist time in Iraq we traded some of our MREs for British rations and they were awesome. IIRC it had a great chocalate drink mix in it. I think my wife would be alot happier with british rats than MREs in a survival situation. Good topic reconer!

Very interesting study indeed. The man chopping off his fingers was a little bizarre....not being able to tell if he meant to do it or not. Thanks for posting this....something to think about.

The rules of 3 are
three minutes without air, three days without water and three weeks without food.

reply to post by DClairvoyant


When we were in Iraq man...I ate better there than back home...granted the food was sterile and bland...but clean. Oh...and I dont think I ate but a few MRE's...in the field we were so wore out we would have to force ourselves to eat cause of the heat...drinking our 150 degree bottled water.

reply to post by bettermakings


Oh for sure. You hit the nail on the head...these guys I see over here on a daily basis...yeah...I never thought about it that way. Good perspective and insight.

Detoxing all that hormone and steroid and genetically modified food...it really is worth eating clean...

Originally posted by Reconer
reply to post by DClairvoyant

 

When we were in Iraq man...I ate better there than back home...granted the food was sterile and bland...but clean. Oh...and I dont think I ate but a few MRE's...in the field we were so wore out we would have to force ourselves to eat cause of the heat...drinking our 150 degree bottled water.

Problem with me is that I got into a habit over the past year of eating one to two meal's a day and started showing signs of thinness in my face. I've sorta lost direction and seen some scary stuff. Sorta mixed me up a bit especially that encounter I had at camp, that's what resulted to the termination of my contract within the BA forces because I went through quite a bit of paper work and those official's made it hard for me and I got warned it wasn't the career path I should be taking.

I'm okay now, speak honestly and freely about it even though I know I shouldn't but hey we only live once, might as well tell the civvi's there's entities roaming around camp's/underground and there completely oblvious to it. And still have the unmarked SUV's outside and the weird black chopper's fly over our house. I know I'm being monitored from both sides.

All I'm saying is if you haven't seen one yet, doesn't make me sound like a nut! I know what I saw was real and to wake up to one in your barracks is scary enough to make you think twice about what your doing there in the first place. My whole squad witnessed it on more than 3 occassions. We had it rough, we were'nt allowed to speak to other companies and troops. We were sectioned off and had to keep quiet about it so as not to scare the rest of the troop.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by DClairvoyant]

reply to post by Reconer


I forgot to mention about your thread that my source has been preparing me for 2 year's now and I also got the information from www.nworesistance.com...

It sure does have it all in there.

As for food just buy big container's of dried Museli and seed's and any other dried product of food. Get in some 120 litres water container's and plenty of purified water tab's. Stock up an entire cupboard of vitamins tablet's and get together a small greenhouse to grow your own crops. I can just help myself to fruit and veg in the morning. As for medicines stick to natural stuff suchas Grapeseed extract, Vitaminc C and D, Green plus is good but red is needed, Eat plenty of fruit's i.e, blueberries, cherries, cranberries, strawberries, raspberries, red currant's, and many other's that are very high in Orac - rated.

Website link: www.whyagel.com...
Website link is not working properly.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by DClairvoyant]

First, where are you getting British GP rats? Every site I saw said it was illegal to buy or sell, if this isn't the case, please let me know, I abhor MREs and would love to see if these fit into my food storage plans.

To the OP. If you eat nothing but junk and fast food, when you say, "I'm starving" you likely are. The fast food, the Franken food, the processed crap people stuff themselves with is devoid of any real nutrition. That's why so many fat people go to McDonalds. They are always hungry, it's a quick fix, but all they are doing is adding to the problem. Eventually the empty calories take their toll and their heart explodes. Sad, but true. If the food chain is ever interrupted, the biggies will be the first to go. Nothing to support their system, no skills to acquire real food, and likely a very minimal supply as back up that is likely more garbage that won't give them the energy to fight on.

As for feeling the effects of starvation. No, I never have and work hard not to. I raise most of my own, stockpile in multiple areas, have access to land in the summer, fish and game in the fall, and the knowledge to store it long term. Oh, and the ability to defend it.

Those in modern America who can drive to get a burger at 11pm, have no right to complain they are starving, but they likely will be the first to experience it if it ever gets to that, God I hope it doesn't.

reply to post by bettermakings


A fat person would live longer than the anorexic though. Who will have it more comfortable near the beginning? The anorexic, but eventually even fat peoples' bodies will adapt and they will get used to not having calories.

reply to post by ghaleon12


Um, no, because the detoxification would become so extreme in a fat person that they would likely die within a week from such extreme detoxification, while the anorexic goes a week without eating with ease.

eating once a day isn't so bad.. i grew up pretty poor so i guess i'm just used to it. i usually get hunger pains soon after waking but i usually hold out until 4 or 5, then i'm good until the next day. no i don't have an eating disorder or anything like that i'm an average sized 23 year old about 160 lbs.. i'm not a muslim but i read this muslim book called eat to live and it makes a lot of sense. but it does bother me also when people act like they got it so bad when they have probably never went more than 12 hours without a meal in their life.

[edit on 15-8-2010 by 2weird2live2rare2die]

Originally posted by bettermakings
reply to post by ghaleon12

 

Um, no, because the detoxification would become so extreme in a fat person that they would likely die within a week from such extreme detoxification, while the anorexic goes a week without eating with ease.

Um, every scientist/Dr. out there would disagree with you, even those sympathetic to alternative medicine. Physiologically, an anorexic that has 2% body fat vs someone who has a normal body fat, and the anorexic will die MUCH sooner than someone with a potbelly if they were only given water. If it were down to only water, any fat or normal size person would survive longer than an anorexic. That is just basic human physiology.

Fat would be the source of energy for both, who will run out first? The anorexic. At that point, protein will be taken from muscles and then vital organs, like the heart, which means death. A fat or normal size person won't have to break down protein anywhere near the time frame of an anorexic. Your statement is demonstrably false. Who will complain more in a fasting state? A normal or bigger size person would, but they will indeed live longer than an anorexic simply because they are carrying around more energy in which they can live off of.

I eat one meal a day and a snack. I weigh the same now that I did in high school (5 ft 4 in and 114 pounds) and without telling my age lets just say I have 2 great grandchildren. No wait that makes me sound real old, I am 62. I am a picky eater and some food just taste gross to me (no I am not anorexic). I think we should eat to live - not live to eat. Do keep in mind lots of water is good for you - stay well hydrated.

reply to post by Reconer


I do know what starving can be like.
I was starving during my first trimester!

reply to post by ghaleon12

ghalen, I fully agree with you. The higher the fat content someone has the longer they can hold out. Plus, whose to say that their fat is toxic, they could overeat organically, if they so choose. LOL Having said that I will have to say that when you starve, you do put off toxins in your blood. While I have not officially starved in the classic sense, if you go on a radical, low carbohydrate diet, you in effect, starve, in the sense that your body goes into, ketosis. This is just a fancy way of saying that your body is consuming itself as the glycogen stores in your body are depleted and your liver starts breaking down body fat for energy. This is also what takes place during real starvation and the less fat you have, the less time you can survive without nourishment. Now, if you are in very precarious health, and obese then you could, during dietary stress, suffer some fatal malady brought about by the toxins. But to make a blanket statement that obese people will die sooner than the anorexic or even the nominally "average" person is just not factual. Even if you are obese and in nominal health you should only feel bad from the detox. I say this from personal experience as I was overweight in 1980 and could not pass my military PT. I went on a NO CARB diet on 1 August, 80 at 193#s and on the 31st of August I weighed 160#s. I actually gained weight the first week, couple of #s and in the last week, I would go to work in the morning and when I got home I would KNOW that I had lost weight that day. This is similar to "rabbit starvation" but not quite the same. I have to say that I felt like crap, had a metallic taste in my mouth all the time and you could clean off fingernail polish with my urine (high in ketones, polish remover is acetone, a ketone) as well as how foul it smelled.LOL So, yeah, you will feel bad but you won't die, normally. I think a lot of people that talk about survival here at ATS aren't real survivalists. I have been one for years and none of this misinfo is on the real survival sites. I won't post a site so no one can say I have a vested interest, but anyone wanting accurate, non-urban myth, information should look at "survival only" topic sites. 2cents