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US vs China?????

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posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 11:53 PM
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Well, I guess a precursor to the war would be economic sanctions. So, we would be able to see how China would be able to thrive without our contribution before the war even started.




posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 11:54 PM
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Sorry FreeManson that your are one close minded ......!

Really though why would China be doing all of this if they loved US and did want war.

Why modernize the military?

Out,
Russian



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by FreeMason


-. . .


Sorry need a translation.

Out,
Russian



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 11:56 PM
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You seem to misunderstand China's move to world prestige. They don't see this through war but through status (which in itself is a power) and through technological increase.

I also don't like Russian-posers.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by FreeMason


Uhh ... no.

There is a Sino-Russian pact, it's not a solid pact, and the memories of HATE that caused the Sino-Soviet Pact would cause more likely a Chinese-American invasion of Russia than a Chinese-American war.

This thread is so stupid because it's primary premise is that America would fight China. The reality is that China is so dependent upon the US, they will never fight us any time soon. Russia is the only nation diametrically opposed to America and aside from Nukes it's pretty worthless.

China's currency is pinned to the Dollar, attacking us would destroy the value of their currency. They'd be unable to trade and thus unable to conduct war.


Accutaly look at the pact closely and you will see that it was made JUST AGAINST THE USA!

It was made to make Russia and China the same superpowers as USA and to make a multi polar world.

In other words make a world with 2 or more superpowers.

Out,
Russian



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 11:57 PM
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You don't need translation, you just need to speak Russian. If you can't read it change your encoding by "right-clicking" and select encoding and select Cyrillic for Windows.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by FreeMason


Uhh ... no.

There is a Sino-Russian pact, it's not a solid pact, and the memories of HATE that caused the Sino-Soviet Pact would cause more likely a Chinese-American invasion of Russia than a Chinese-American war.

This thread is so stupid because it's primary premise is that America would fight China. The reality is that China is so dependent upon the US, they will never fight us any time soon. Russia is the only nation diametrically opposed to America and aside from Nukes it's pretty worthless.

China's currency is pinned to the Dollar, attacking us would destroy the value of their currency. They'd be unable to trade and thus unable to conduct war.


Accutaly look at the pact closely and you will see that it was made JUST AGAINST THE USA!

It was made to make Russia and China the same superpowers as USA and to make a multi polar world.

In other words make a world with 2 or more superpowers.

Out,
Russian


Funny last time I checked all it caused was a withdrawl of Russian troops from the Chinese border. The fact they were there in the first place in 1996, is proof that China and Russia are no where near ready to become a "super power".

If they want to challenge the US why not Russia give some of their Nukes to China? Hmmm?

They don't trust eachother, thus they aren't allies, they just are sick of having guns pointed at eachother.



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by FreeMason
You seem to misunderstand China's move to world prestige. They don't see this through war but through status (which in itself is a power) and through technological increase.

I also don't like Russian-posers.


No if you read and understand alittle then you will understand that China is building up its military to scare Tawian from trying to break away and if Tawian starts to break away it will need to defend its self from US while attacked Tawian.

And about Russian-posers.

I dont give a .... what you like or dont like.

Just shove it.........

Out,
Russian



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by FreeMason
]

Funny last time I checked all it caused was a withdrawl of Russian troops from the Chinese border. The fact they were there in the first place in 1996, is proof that China and Russia are no where near ready to become a "super power".

If they want to challenge the US why not Russia give some of their Nukes to China? Hmmm?

They don't trust eachother, thus they aren't allies, they just are sick of having guns pointed at eachother.



I can see you never read.....

Out,
Russian



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 12:17 AM
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I think China's economy may be under-rated according to the CIA Factbook of 2004:
www.cia.gov...

www.cia.gov...

China Pop - 1,298,847,624
US - 293,027,571

China Import Partners - Japan 18.1%, Taiwan 12.8%, South Korea 9.7%, US 9.2%, Germany 5.6% (2002)

China - agriculture 50%, industry 22%, services 28% (2001 est.)
US - farming, forestry, and fishing 2.4%


Oas

posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 12:30 AM
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whoa guys...take it easy there lets have a friendly debate...you obviously have ur opinions and thats perfectly cool...but heres mine...no i dont think even bush is stupid enough to directly invade china...who would? but the fact is that each would have its own advantages. china has a massive load of troops and the US by far has the best special ops in the world...i mean i know everyone has their own but look at what we have...the SEALs, the Recons, the Rangers, the Greenies, the night stalkers, and of course the single best military untit on the face of this planet...the Delta Force. china could not compete with all that...and i dont remember who but someone made a good point earlier of how we try to help other countries while we are at war with them(like we are doing now). i believe that the only efficient way to win a war with our rival super power would not try to crush the into submission with brute force(that would end in catastrophe), but to send all our special forces and ops units over to select locations and pull black ops out the mofo(cut the peacekeeper world police BS). that would break them because theyd have a very hard time countering it...it doesnt take a million nukes to devastate a country, and they have stuff to reach us so technology counts but only for so much. we have to beat them with our special ops, our strongest area by far. and yes russia would play a definate role seeing as how this is war between the UN permanents. they have good SF and sweet military technology. they might be somewhat of a tie breaker if u will or something like that. i know this is long but my overall opinion...and no way i do not want to go to war with china, and they may not like us in some respects but i do not believe they want war with us anymore than we do with them.......



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 12:38 AM
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China's main imports:

machinery and equipment, mineral fuels, plastics, iron and steel, chemicals

China's main exports:

machinery and equipment, textiles and clothing, footwear, toys and sporting goods, mineral fuels

Don't see food as a main import. Also China has nearly a $40 billion trade surplus


Look at the US's main imports...

crude oil and refined petroleum products, machinery, automobiles, consumer goods, industrial raw materials, food and beverages

And our trade deficit is HUGE. Nearly half a trillion dollars.

Source: www.cia.gov...

If China would organize a boycott along with a few small countries in the area it would cripple our country. Most of the electronics comes from the far east. Then convince OPEC to join them and its all over.



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 01:10 AM
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There have been many Chinese officials talking about an "inevitable war with the US, and making sure the China wins the war...", now, if it was only a bluff then there would be nothing to worry about. But, China has been getting US bases and have been trying to get more. They have control of the Panama canal, and the Chinese government plus the Russian government have threaten to begin a new arms race to rival the cold war if the US ever tried to implement a missile defense system. Also the Sino-Russian pact does exist, the first one was signed in 1950, they have updated this pact and even jointly threatened the US for trying to make sure we have a defense system...


" The new treaty is the first new friendship treaty since the Sino-Soviet pact in 1950. The new treaty will set up a new-type of interstate relations, different from those agreed to in the 1950s.

The only goal of the treaty is to enhance the strategic relations between China and Russia and to provide a basis for world peace and stability.

The two sides also agreed not to aim their strategic nuclear weapons at each other and said they would work to solve any dispute peacefully. "If a threat of aggression arises," the treaty states, the two sides "will immediately make contact with each other and hold consultations in order to eliminate the emerging threat." "

Excerpted from.
www.china.org.cn...


"China Warns Of New Arms Race

Official Says U.S. Missile Shield Would Shift Balance of Power

By John Pomfret, Washington Post Foreign Service

BEIJING, Nov. 10China's top arms control official assailed the United States today for its campaign to develop a shield against ballistic nuclear missiles, warning that such a program could lead to a nuclear arms race and dangerously alter the strategic balance in Asia and the rest of the world."

Excerpted from.
www.fas.org...


" Russian President Vladimir V. Putin and Chinese President Jiang Zemin have seen each other a lot recently, as both seek a strategic partnership that will be able to curb Americas global dominance.

The Russia-China axis is nothing new but has been building steam for years and took on full power after Bill Clinton's NATO war against Serbia.

Since then relations between Russia, the country with the largest nuclear arsenal, and China, the country with the largest conventional army, have developed to the point that a fundamental shift in global power may be well under way.

Jiang and Putin are holding a two-day summit in Beijing that will continue through today. A top issue for both sides is the U.S. plan to build a missile defense system. Russia and China have made it clear that they oppose the development of any kind of national missile defense system and have warned that the development of such a system could lead to another arms race rivaling that of the Cold War. "

Excerpted from.
www.newsmax.com.../7/18/191614

" In July 2001, Chinese President Jiang Zemin and Russian President Vladimir Putin are planning to sign a new treaty of "friendship, cooperation, and neighborhood," according to official Russian sources.

According to a recent statement from the Russian foreign ministry, the agreement will "lay the groundwork for a strategic partnership in all fields," including military cooperation."

Excerpted from.
www.worldnetdaily.com...

" In a highly anticipated speech, President George W. Bush reaffirmed his administrations commitment to deploying a missile-defense shield.

Delivered in early May at the National Defense University in Washington, D.C., the presidents speech generated headlines but, according to observers and military analysts, left many unanswered questions about how missile-defense issues would be approached during the next four years. These questions dealt with what would happen if the ABM treaty were abrogated, whether U.S. action on missile defense would start another arms race, and what the role of diplomacy with the European allies would be in the process.

Indicating plans to move beyond the constraints of the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) treaty, Bush announced his intentions to build a new framework for the development and deployment of a missile-defense shield that would protect the United States and NATO allies. "

Excerpted from.
www.nationaldefensemagazine.org...

" Russia and China Join Forces to Denounce U.S. Anti-Missile Shield
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
BEIJING -- Putting their burgeoning partnership on display, the Russian and Chinese presidents on Tuesday denounced U.S. plans to build an anti-missile shield and agreed to closer cooperation on international affairs.

Chinese President Jiang Zemin and Russian President Vladimir Putin wrapped up nearly three hours of closed-door talks with a public signing ceremony. Among the five documents they and their aides signed, two took aim at the United States, singling out the proposed high-tech national missile defense system. "

Excerpted from.
www.u.arizona.edu...



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 01:27 AM
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Excellent post Muad. It is frightening to think of those two joining sides. And we are so busy worrying about the middle east that we leave ourselves unable to defend the mainland from an attack.



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 02:52 AM
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If China would organize a boycott along with a few small countries in the area it would cripple our country. Most of the electronics comes from the far east. Then convince OPEC to join them and its all over.


Without the US most countries couldn't survive. We're the biggest consumers of probably about everything, and these countries would be finanically screwed without the United States.

Face it people...the US basically carries the world.



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 02:59 AM
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I disagree. That is part of our problem. We aren't as great as we think we are. We are the biggest consumers of garbage in the world. The rest of the world would survive without us. Our serious trade deficite shows we don't really make anything the rest of the world wants. If they cut us off what does that leave American consumers? Americans can't afford to buy things made here. Stuff made here is too expensive. If they cut us off that means all the industry that was shipped over there would now have to be re-established over here. That means flooding the market with new jobs. The result would be skyrocketing labor costs. This would drive up prices even more. It would cause a big recession for a while until personal incomes caught up with the rapid rate of inflation. Inflation will be a killer. The result would be massive government spending to fund a new/potential war with China and skyrocketing inflation. Both are very bad. And of course all OPEC has to do is change standards to the Euro and the value of the Dollar would crash.



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 03:07 AM
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Indy you're so blind, it's almost insulting.

The US is important to the world, without us the rest of the world would be BROKE.

All those nations make money off of selling US stuff...the world is not Nazi Germany, even Nazi Germany's economy (which was built for self-suficiency) began to burn-out towards the time the war began.

And it is seemingly only possible for a nation's economy to be self-contained when it is a militarized economy.

There are so many factors you just left out in your ignorant little qualitative statement.

After all, America provides the stability everyone wants, that's why we are UP on the top, if we didn't provide stability whoever did would have taken over the position.



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 03:10 AM
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OPEC won't change the value of anything. After all what country buys the most oil? USA!

Believe me,( I'm an American so I'm allowed to say this
), I would like nothing more than to see the country fall. My opinion is that the country is so damn arrogant, we deserve to get slapped back to reality. But I don't see it happening anytime soon. We hold too much power, and I think if China is ignorant enough to get into a war with us, they will quickly find out that we're not screwing around, and that they have no chance in beating us.



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 03:18 AM
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To think they have no chance is a dangerous assumption don't you think? They aren't some chump military. They have a HUGE military with alot of fire power and the Chinese people are a very determined people. Their military would open fire on their own people. What do you think they'd do to another military? And the danger of a war with them is the chance of the war going nuclear. Neither side is going to want to lose and the side losing will use nukes. My opinion. Who will lose the war? As always... the people. The leaders of both countries will be locked safely in a bunker while the general population gets killed due to the arrogance of its leaders.

Wars will end the day the leaders are forced onto the battlefield.



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by Indy
Wars will end the day the leaders are forced onto the battlefield.


This is why no one will defeat us:
[url=http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/]
[url=http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/ships/ship-cv.html]
[url=http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/ships/ship-ssbn.html]

Oh and...

[url=http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/]



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