‘Variability’ % proves God is the SPECIAL CAUSE, skeptics, why are you ignoring?

Originally posted by MrXYZ

3) Man first, then animals...oh wait, no...animals first, then man...oh wait...lol.

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

OK, this is an easy one, friend. Genesis 2 is not a different account, it is an expansion of, chapter 1, the events of Day Six of creation. When Genesis 2:19 states “The LORD God formed every beast of the field ...,” the Hebrew verb can be translated as a “pluperfect.”

A proper translation would be “Now the LORD God had formed ...,” which is how it is in the New International Version of the Bible...it's sorta a summary/a reminder to set the stage for the next item covered.

When read as a ‘pluperfect’, there is no contradiction .

God made animals first, then people. Correctly read, Genesis 2 does not contradict the order given in Genesis 1.

Next? You know I’ll get to it.

Originally posted by iditenahuiats
cuz you haven't answered a single answer straight in this entire thread. your contribution to ATS is worthless.

Nah, have'nt answered it the way you wanted....if I left a thread every time a person answered a question differently than I thought or hoped, I'd never be here.....

btw, even tho we disagree, you contribution has been great!

Oh, so it was a spelling mistake...that's convenient and of course totally proves the Genesis account

Originally posted by MrXYZ


4) Wisdom good, wisdom bad...what is it??
PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
1CO 1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

Ah, wisdom, oh that I had more!!!
How blessed is the man who finds wisdom, and the man who gains
understanding. For its profit is better than the profit of silver, and its gain than
fine gold. She is more precious than jewels; and nothing you desire compares
with her. Long life is in her right hand; in her left hand are riches and honor.
Her ways are pleasant ways, and all her paths are peace. She is a tree of life to
those who take hold of her, and happy are all who hold her fast. (NAS, Proverbs
3:13-18)

But there is a downside, too. You see the Bible is not a ‘romantic’ set of books like a sitcom or movie where the good guy solves the mystery and “everyone lives happily ever-after” The Bible authors are realists and one of the truths about wisdom is, as you learn more, you see foolishness much clearer, often from the people you love….and this hurts your heart.
Concerning 1CO 1:19, this is a repeat from the Old Test. In Isaiah 29, verse 14. My boy Matthew Henry sums it up so well: “verses 1:17-25 Paul had been bred up in Jewish learning; but the plain preaching of a crucified Jesus, was more powerful than all the oratory and philosophy of the heathen world. This is the sum and substance of the gospel. Christ crucified is the foundation of all our hopes, the fountain of all our joys. And by his death we live. The preaching of salvation for lost sinners by the sufferings and death of the Son of God, if explained and faithfully applied, appears foolishness to those in the way to destruction. The sensual, the covetous, the proud, and ambitious, alike see that the gospel opposes their favourite pursuits. But those who receive the gospel, and are enlightened by the Spirit of God, see more of God's wisdom and power in the doctrine of Christ crucified, than in all his other works. God left a great part of the world to follow the dictates of man's boasted reason, and the event has shown that human wisdom is folly, and is unable to find or retain the knowledge of God as the Creator. It pleased him, by the foolishness of preaching, to save them that believe. By the foolishness of preaching; not by what could justly be called foolish preaching. But the thing preached was foolishness to wordly-wise men. The gospel ever was, and ever will be, foolishness to all in the road to destruction. The message of Christ, plainly delivered, ever has been a sure touchstone by which men may learn what road they are travelling. But the despised doctrine of salvation by faith in a crucified Saviour, God in human nature, purchasing the church with his own blood, to save multitudes, even all that believe, from ignorance, delusion, and vice, has been blessed in every age. And the weakest instruments God uses, are stronger in their effects, than the strongest men can use. Not that there is foolishness or weakness in God, but what men consider as such, overcomes all their admired wisdom and strength.”

No contradiction!

Next? You know I’ll get to it.

reply to post by OldThinker


How isn't that a contradiction?? It clearly states it black on white! They say "wisdom is good, get as much of it as you can" and "wisdom is doom" in the SAME BOOK! That's like stating "eat 1lb of butter per day" and "focus on healthy food and vegetables" in a diet guide. So one quote comes from old Jewish traditions (OT) and the other from whatever Jesus said...but in the end, both concern THE SAME GOD. If you don't agree with parts of the old testament or believe it doesn't concern you who lives according the NT, you also can't really agree with a lot of the rest of it.

So far you're 0/3 in your explanations btw...but keep going

[edit on 15-8-2010 by MrXYZ]

Originally posted by MrXYZ


Anyway, OT, you are clearly dodging questions or giving vague "1 liner" answers whenever you're faced with a difficult question. I asked you about the bible contradictions I listed (you can look them up black on white in the bible, they're not fake) but your only answer is "not a contradiction" without providing any explanation other than your personal opinion. They clearly ARE contradictions as everyone who reads them can see...so why are you shutting your eyes from reality OT??

Remember this?

Can you now, please retrack?

So we can move on?

OT

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by OldThinker

 

How isn't that a contradiction?? It clearly states it black on white! They say "wisdom is good, get as much of it as you can" and "wisdom is doom" in the SAME BOOK! That's like stating "eat 1lb of butter per day" and "focus on healthy food and vegetables" in a diet guide.

Probably should have left it as you did in the original reply...most people like butter on their vege's.....wisom is not 'discrete', its 'continuous'....I hope you can "get" that/those terms?

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by MrXYZ


Anyway, OT, you are clearly dodging questions or giving vague "1 liner" answers whenever you're faced with a difficult question. I asked you about the bible contradictions I listed (you can look them up black on white in the bible, they're not fake) but your only answer is "not a contradiction" without providing any explanation other than your personal opinion. They clearly ARE contradictions as everyone who reads them can see...so why are you shutting your eyes from reality OT??

Remember this?

Can you now, please retrack?

So we can move on?

OT

Well, none of your explanations make clear why it isn't a contradiction. I might let the "translation mistake" one slide, but the rest are still contradictions. Plus, you also mentioned several arguments (cosmological, etc.) that are supposed to prove stuff...yet when I and others pointed out how flawed those arguments are, you just ignored that

Just typing posts isn't considered an explanation if the content is flawed...

reply to post by OldThinker


yeah, you didnt answer the questions. i wanted you to anwer them...

you only keep dodging them with a sentence that in its format makes it seem like you answered the question when in reality you provide no proof to substanciate your claims

[edit on 15-8-2010 by iditenahuiats]

you know, i can see the good in you in a way, and your religion gives you some good character traits, however, you can't just claim you just proved god. you have to understand, religion is not about proving god scientifically, its about faith. for example, i believe that "god" is nature/universe/infinity

but i dont try to prove it to noone. i just believe that, and that's my faith.
im confident what i believe is true, so i dont need to try to "prove"it to "sceptics" i think you should also have faith in your religion, and not try to "prove" it because then it wouldn't be "faith". at which point all religion would break down to nothing and we'd just have facts.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
5) The earth is not flat, you can't see "all kingdoms" at once, not even from space!! MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

???

How do you get FLAT out of that? Oh well…these stories are consistent with 2 super-natural being?

How else would the devil manage to find Jesus in the desert in Matthew 4:3? How else would the devil bring Jesus to the 'the highest point of the temple' in Matthew 4:5? And how else would he transport Jesus to the 'very high mountain' in Matthew 4:8?

Matthew's portrayal of the meeting between Jesus and the devil involves the supernatural.
So how did the devil represent to Jesus 'all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor'? The answer seems obvious: by means of the supernatural.

So why does the devil take Jesus up to a 'very high mountain' when he could have used his supernatural powers in a valley, or in a plain, etc., to show Jesus all the kingdoms of the world? Because, a king is elevated. It is the king who has the highest seat in a palace. It is the king who has the highest seat in a coliseum. It is the king to whom others lower themselves by bowing.

So if the devil is going to tempt someone by offering to make him the king of the world, where else would be more appropriate than the top of a 'very high mountain?'

Consider the succession of temptations in Matthew 4:1-11:

• The first takes place in a desert.

• The second involves the highest point on the Temple in Jerusalem.

• And the third takes place on a mountain.

The pattern is clear: As the loftiness of the temptation increases, so does the height from which it is offered.

But, for the sake of argument, what if a person, who lived during the time of Jesus, actually thought that the earth was flat? Would that person really think that if he stood on a high mountain that he would be able to see the entire world - all the kingdoms in their splendor?

That would be easy to doubt. You don't have to be a 21st-century scientist to realize that there are limits as to how far the human eye can perceive detail and color. Anyone standing on a hilltop overlooking a valley, or standing on a shoreline looking out to the sea, would realize that the human eye can see only so far before details are washed out into the horizon.

Even a person living in ancient times would have realized that he could not see far enough, under any normal circumstances, to see all of the kingdoms of the world from any one vantage point.

Remember, the ancients traveled by foot. They often measured their journeys by the number of days that it took to complete the trip. The Bible records many examples of this. A man living in ancient times, taking a journey that lasted a day or more, would have realized that even when there are no trees or mountains or hills to obstruct your view, you still can't see your destination point at the start of your journey.”




Source and more: www.aboutbibleprophecy.com...


[edit on 15-8-2010 by OldThinker]

Originally posted by iditenahuiats
reply to post by OldThinker

 

yeah, you didnt answer the questions. i wanted you to anwer them...

you only keep dodging them with a sentence that in its format makes it seem like you answered the question when in reality you provide no proof to substanciate your claims

[edit on 15-8-2010 by iditenahuiats]

I am attempting to answer all questions....you know I've had over 10,000 replies on ATS....probably missed one here and there...call me human

I guess that's why I need grace

You know where to find me iditenahuiats, I'm too old to play dodgeball anyway...

reply to post by OldThinker


Because no matter how high the mountain you climb on, you can never see the whole world since it's round. The only way to see everything when climbing a mountain is if the world is flat. Basic geometry

Originally posted by MrXYZ


6) So the snake messes it up for us humans and gets told to eat dirt for the rest of eternity...yet last I checked, that's now what they do.

GEN 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: ....

I dunno? Never really thought much about snakes as a barometer for my bible beliefs, I guess those snakes in that part of the world really do eat dirt, not to gain nourishment, they do take dirt into their mouths as a necessary part of survival. You see inside the roof of their mouths are two cavities (called Jacobson's organ) As they crawl, they take in dirt with their tongue and put it in this cavity in order to smell their surroundings.
But the real reason is found in Psalms 72:9….it was about God bringing humiliation to the serpent….conjecture here….who may have had legs?

Matthew Henry brings it home again… God passes sentence; and he begins where the sin began, with the serpent. The devil's instruments must share in the devil's punishments. Under the cover of the serpent, the devil is sentenced to be degraded and accursed of God; detested and abhorred of all mankind: also to be destroyed and ruined at last by the great Redeemer, signified by the breaking of his head. War is proclaimed between the Seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent. It is the fruit of this enmity, that there is a continual warfare between grace and corruption, in the hearts of God's people. Satan, by their corruptions, buffets them, sifts them, and seeks to devour them. Heaven and hell can never be reconciled, nor light and darkness; no more can Satan and a sanctified soul. Also, there is a continual struggle between the wicked and the godly in this world. A gracious promise is here made of Christ, as the Deliverer of fallen man from the power of Satan. Here was the drawn of the gospel day: no sooner was the wound given, than the remedy was provided and revealed. This gracious revelation of a Saviour came unasked, and unlooked for. Without a revelation of mercy, giving some hope of forgiveness, the convinced sinner would sink into despair, and be hardened. By faith in this promise, our first parents, and the patriarchs before the flood, were justified and saved. Notice is given concerning Christ. 1. His incarnation, or coming in the flesh. It speaks great encouragement to sinners, that their Saviour is the Seed of the woman, bone of our bone, Heb 2:11,14. 2. His sufferings and death; pointed at in Satan's bruising his heel, that is, his human nature. And Christ's sufferings are continued in the sufferings of the saints for his name. The devil tempts them, persecutes and slays them; and so bruises the heel of Christ, who is afflicted in their afflictions. But while the heel is bruised on earth, the Head is in heaven. 3. His victory over Satan thereby. Christ baffled Satan's temptations, rescued souls out of his hands. By his death he gave a fatal blow to the devil's kingdom, a wound to the head of this serpent that cannot be healed. As the gospel gains ground, Satan falls!”
biblecommenter.com...

reply to post by OldThinker


Praise be, OT! I had my doubts about my religious beliefs but, after reading your impeccably flawless post, I can now say that I have no more doubts about the existence of Brahma and the Gods that followed! I pray that you will reach others out there with this message, and hopefully the number of our reincarnations will be shortened and we will be one with the Divine much sooner!

reply to post by Torgo


Doesn't take a lot to convince you, huh?

reply to post by OldThinker


Snakes don't "eat dirt", they accumulate air molecules on their tongues and then analyze it with the organ you named. And if that's meant to be a punishment, why are a lot of amphibians and other reptilians suffering the same punishment?

reply to post by MrXYZ


I think we're "wordsmithin" my friend...



3.bp.blogspot.com...

reply to post by MrXYZ


Well, you have to understand that before I found OT's post I was positive that at least one of the world's religions had gotten the story right, and held the true answers to why we're here. As I was reading OT's OP, it just suddenly became clear to me that Hinduism was that one true religion! Granted, the evidence provided was ambiguous at best, but I think we all know the truth when we see it! As Willy Wonka would say:

This thread reminds me of that iGod chat. Just wondering why the OP feels
he is answering questions, when it is clear that people are continuously
complaining he is not. Are you superior in knowledge over them and they
are just not seeing your answers?

Me: hi god
God: Hello there. What is your name?
Me: keepureye2thesky
God: I'm pleased to introduce myself to you, keepureye2thesky.
Me: What is Special cause?
God: I have to process that one for a while.
Me: What do the numbers 94 & 6 mean to you?
God: They do their own thing.
Me: did you create the earth?
God: No I didn't create the earth. What's it like?
Me: are we alone in the universe?
God: No one is listening right now.
Me: You're not making any sense
God: Was I supposed to make sense? I didn't know that.
Me: good bye god God: TTYL, keepureye2thesky.

iGod