‘Variability’ % proves God is the SPECIAL CAUSE, skeptics, why are you ignoring?

Quite a dim witted post. One Planet, One this One that.

You have failed to realize that as far as Earth and it people are concerned we have explored ZERO of the vastness we call the Universe.

I can't remember Steven Hawking saying that after the big bang god turned up.

And Ill take his word as he is clever and deals with facts and Science and you are dealing with god = fantasy and fairy tales!

reply to post by sassyncute


well said.

Peace out.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
This thread is funny! Talking about statistics...when our sample size is so small, there's no way we can draw any conclusions. I'm not even sure why we're discussing this still as it's totally clear it's statistically irrelevant.

Oh, and OT, sry to burst your bubble...but evolution is largely accepted as scientific fact. Every single evidence we found points to that conclusion...and exactly ZERO evidence points towards the whole "and there was light and man and then a woman from the rib of that man and a snake that messed it up for everyone" theory

I'll grant the point about the whole universe....I'll ask you to stay within our system, if "out there" randonly created life on earth, "out there" would be 'assignable', there fore special cause and would have to show up 6% of the time, just in our solar system....but evolutionist say a random something joined another random something, and walla us...this would have to work over 90% of areas...yet it doesn't...????

Not all scientist ACCEPT the theory of evolution, here's a few that don't.

Dr. William Arion, Biochemistry, Chemistry
Dr. Paul Ackerman, Psychologist
Dr. E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics
Dr. Steve Austin, Geologist
Dr. S.E. Aw, Biochemist
Dr. Thomas Barnes, Physicist
Dr. Geoff Barnard, Immunologist
Dr. Don Batten, Plant Physiologist
Dr. John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics
Dr. Jerry Bergman, Psychologist
Dr. Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
Dr. Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry
Dr. David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer
Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics
Dr. Rob Carter, Marine Biology
Dr. David Catchpoole, Plant Physiology
Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics
Dr. Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics
Dr. Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering
Dr. Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist
Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education
Dr. John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering
Dr. Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist
Timothy C. Coppess, M.S., Environmental Scientist
Dr. Bob Compton, DVM
Dr. Ken Cumming, Biologist
Dr. Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist
Dr. William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics
Dr. Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering
Dr. Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist
Dr. Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging
Dr. Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist
Dr. Nancy M. Darrall, Botany
Dr. Bryan Dawson, Mathematics
Dr. Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education
Dr. David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience
Dr. Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div
Dr. Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist
Dr. Ted Driggers, Operations research
Robert H. Eckel, Medical Research
Dr. André Eggen, Geneticist
Dr. Dudley Eirich, Molecular Biologist
Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics
Dr. Andrew J. Fabich, Microbiology
Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy


want more?

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Who said it was here by chance ?

What about a self organized system ?

But that wouldn't allow for god's existence...so it can't be possible. Do you see why?

I don't think it HAS to be DISCRETE

reply to post by iditenahuiats


2. No contradiction!


I think the 10 or so links at the top of google that spout this, must have a good marketer....yeah I can hear the meeting now, "yeah that is that it! Sure the FACT that things 'break down" over time is a great support for the THEORY that things get better over time. Sure we can sell that!"


I'd fired your marketer friend...BAD argument...

But I thank you for your politeness

Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by awake_and_aware

 

I think it's wrong how they get away with claims like that, "It's scientific fact that God exists"..

It is a scientific fact, that life comes from preexisting life.

It is impossible to prove otherwise.

dusty1,

please be cautious friend, being logical on this thread will get you accused of being on Prozac

Dr Eirich

Dr. David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience

Here you go.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
...
If there is an afterlife, I don't think fear will be a tool from God to get people to live up to His standard. I don't think it is God like to be jealous or that He wants to be praised.

My view on God does not involve the hypocritical way of thinking I see so much happening in religion.

Check out Lawrence Kolberg's on morale development and james Fowler on faith development. I agree with your point above, so does JC @ btw.

Originally posted by RestingInPieces
Wow. You certainly have made a big deal out of the first... I don't know, 2 days of classes. I'm pretty sure the distribution of a standard deviation was the very first thing we learned, so thanks for reducing 2 semesters of statistical analysis to what was covered in the first 30 mins.

Something tells me you just stumbled across this while doing "internet research".

Every system has variation; some of this is due to the system itself, known as common cause variation; some of it is due to singular incidents or special situations; this is special cause variation. In his book, Out of the Crisis (Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1982), W. Edwards Deming estimated that 94 percent of problems (or possibilities for improvement) lie with the system as common-cause variation; 6 percent are special causes.

Move along young man...move along.

You didn't read the OP, 94% LINK WAS IN OP!!!! you got U2U'ed to come over and "provide assistance" with a fundi on another thread.

btw, std deviation deals with spread of data!!!!!!!!! put 2 and 2 together man.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


www.youtube.com...

SK, I thought you'd get a kick out of this.

What an enjoyable readable thread! I have always found it ironic and a little archaically absurd people still are debating a 19th century idea; in which evolution and creation are parts of competing forces of belief. This is completely false and short-sighted. It is as if both parties are being down right discriminating to each part; creation and evolution. Einstein once said, “The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer”.

Let me propose a simple proposition. Evolution does not diminish the magnificence of the Master of the Universe. Evolution is a grand example of the greatness of the Creator’s ability to create. I scratch my head in wonderment why people feel so diminished in their personal beliefs in God, by the proposition of the idea of evolution. However, to deny evolution does not make God more real, while accepting evolution does not make God less great. Evolution should force humankind to become even more modest in our understanding and concept of an infinite God. Einstein added to this idea when he said, “Everyone who is seriously engaged in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that the laws of nature manifest the existence of a spirit vastly superior to that of men, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.”

Although this proposition by modern mainstream scientists to think they can put a timeline to the age of the universe is vastly wrongly accepted. The reason being we live in a finite world; humankind seems to demand a beginning and an end, a universal timetable. I think this gives everyone, laypeople and scientists, a feeling of a moralistic and social complacency. To realize the universe is infinite with no beginning and no end boggles their conception of reality.

Many people have asked me if God exists prove it. This is really an easy endeavor. My response is simple, “Have you ever loved anything?” Most will answer in the affirmative. Then I respond, “You cannot see love, but you know love exists”. The greatest commonality to all belief systems is this: God is love. And if love and God is infinite, so must God’s universe be infinite, with no beginning and no end. An ancient Nazarene once said, “All things are possible”.

It really comes down to this when something extraordinary happens personally to people, most people can be divided into two groups (this concept is best quoted from the movie Signs): “When they (humankind) experience something lucky, group number one sees it as more than luck, more than coincidence. They see it as a sign, evidence, that there is someone up there, watching out for them. Group number two sees it as just pure luck, just a happy turn of chance…For them, the situation is a fifty-fifty. Could be bad, could be good. But deep down, they feel whatever happens, they’re on their own. And that fills them with fear…but there are a whole lot of people in group number one... (When something extraordinary happens to them)…they’re looking at a miracle. And deep down, they feel that whatever’s going to happen, there will be someone there to help them. And that fills them with hope. See what you have to ask yourself is what kind of person are you? Are you the kind that sees signs, that sees miracles? Or do you believe that people just get lucky? Or, look at the question this way: Is it possible that there are no coincidences?” I believe evolution is a miracle from our Creator, how magnificent is it God’s creation is able to evolve into greater states of existence in what we perceive as reality? This is no coincidences. Our knowledge of God is supposed to be personal, and that is no coincidence either.

reply to post by AmosGraber


Welcome friend...

SIGNS is my second favorite movie of all time!!!

And that scene is powerful....did you know Juacene (sp?) never reherses before the camera goes on, that just amazed me.

I agree its probably not either/or when it comes to the names of 'creation' and 'evolution'

How'd you stumble by?

OT

reply to post by AmosGraber



Check this out....

Hope you enjoy...

I like when she starts to talk to God/angel at count 2:21

Enjoy viewers here:
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by OldThinker


Just bored, like to read, discuss stuff, I’m a graduate from Indiana University, history major. In my understanding of history I always find it ironic how old or ancient debates are still held in dispute in the modern world. You got to remember those ancient prophets of any religion still believed the world was at the center of the universe, it was ok to marry your sister, and the sun revolved around the earth. Not that all things they said should be disregarded, but people should use historical context to better understand their perspectives. It’s my belief (possible because of my love of classic science fiction writers) someday humanity needs to go through some kind of futuristic renaissance of our understanding of God, in history this type of era of illumination always helps bring about an age of enlightenment, whereby old and ancient types of hatful bigotries can be wiped away opening up endless possibilities. I think there should be no debate against evolution and creation; in my opinion it’s silly. I could list many examples, but the easiest for people to understand is to look at the evolution of the wolf to modern day dogs. And for that matter humanity is highly involved in forced evolution of different breeds of dogs. And there are many, countless other examples right before our eyes. Evolution to me is just a fleeting glimpse of the miracle of creation, in the future there will be many more to come, too.

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by RestingInPieces
Wow. You certainly have made a big deal out of the first... I don't know, 2 days of classes. I'm pretty sure the distribution of a standard deviation was the very first thing we learned, so thanks for reducing 2 semesters of statistical analysis to what was covered in the first 30 mins.

Something tells me you just stumbled across this while doing "internet research".

Every system has variation; some of this is due to the system itself, known as common cause variation; some of it is due to singular incidents or special situations; this is special cause variation. In his book, Out of the Crisis (Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1982), W. Edwards Deming estimated that 94 percent of problems (or possibilities for improvement) lie with the system as common-cause variation; 6 percent are special causes.

Move along young man...move along.

You didn't read the OP, 94% LINK WAS IN OP!!!! you got U2U'ed to come over and "provide assistance" with a fundi on another thread.

btw, std deviation deals with spread of data!!!!!!!!! put 2 and 2 together man.

.... yeah, I think i WILL move along.

I really don't see any reason to continue attempting to communicate with you.

Originally posted by AmosGraber
....Evolution to me is just a fleeting glimpse of the miracle of creation, in the future there will be many more to come, too.

I respect that...thank you for posting.

OT's 'Joaquin Phoenix' from scene 6:01 to 6:17 on the clip I provided, to the skeptics on ATS. His heart comes through soo clear with only one word...you know the story...and what and why he is pleading with Mel...that's me on ATS bro.

Originally posted by sassyncute
....You have failed to realize that as far as Earth and it people are concerned we have explored ZERO of the vastness we call the Universe....

Fair point friend, thank you for taking the time to post.

I'm glad you are interested in these matters

OT

Originally posted by keepureye2thesky


So the only thing I have really gathered from this thread is:
Your faith leads you and no one can steer you off what you believe.
as is the same with your detractors. So it's just become a silly game of
"prove me wrong".

I take a longer view friend. Decisions on important issues as this, don't happen over night or stay the same.

I lil friction (eventually...........) stops inertia

reply to post by OldThinker


First of all, EVOLUTION ISN'T RANDOM!! Stating that just shows that you don't really have a clue what evolution is. Read this because you seem to have some gaps in knowledge when it comes to evolution.

As for scientists stating evolution is wrong in that list you posted: Most of them made their statements YEARS (or even dozen of years) ago, and a lot of them don't even work in fields that would qualify them to judge evolutionary theory. I know religious websites love posting lists of "old (and by now often dead) scientists who claim evolution is wrong"...even if they're not qualified to say so. Just fyi, EVOLUTION IS FACT, all the evidence we have supports it...and we have A TON of evidence. They even use the knowledge gained in evolution in moderns research and medicine. Without it, we wouldn't have a lot of the vaccines and other medicine we have now. Sorry to burst you bubble there, but evolution is fact and it's incredibly sad you're criticizing a fact when you yourself support a theory that has NO PROOF WHATSOEVER.

Anyway, OT, you are clearly dodging questions or giving vague "1 liner" answers whenever you're faced with a difficult question. I asked you about the bible contradictions I listed (you can look them up black on white in the bible, they're not fake) but your only answer is "not a contradiction" without providing any explanation other than your personal opinion. They clearly ARE contradictions as everyone who reads them can see...so why are you shutting your eyes from reality OT??

I'll repost here because else you'll never stand up for yourself and honestly answer them correctly without being vague or opinionated.

1) So he's both and switches personalities all the time? He's also a man of war yet never seems to show himself in that manner. I mean, S&G were destroyed by him over a few sins, yet all the "sinful" cities today are ok.

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

2) LOOOOL!! So basically, they are one...but then again not, somehow. Clue: You can't be one if you're split up in a larger and smaller part!!

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

3) Man first, then animals...oh wait, no...animals first, then man...oh wait...lol.

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

4) Wisdom good, wisdom bad...what is it??
PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
1CO 1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

5) The earth is not flat, you can't see "all kingdoms" at once, not even from space!! MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

6) So the snake messes it up for us humans and gets told to eat dirt for the rest of eternity...yet last I checked, that's now what they do.

GEN 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

7) Different Genesis accounts...plural gods?

Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition: Day 1: Sky, Earth, light Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!) Day 3: Plants Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids) Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.) Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time) Day 7:

Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did) Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good."

The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes: Earth and heavens (misty) Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth) Plants Animals Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)

8) Live or die? Make up your mind god!!

PSA 92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."
ISA 57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."

9) Jesus' last words...3 different versions all in one book. Super accurate, suuuuuuure!
MAT 27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."
LUK 23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
JOH 19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

10) You can see god...or not, depending on which part of the bible is true.

EXO 24:9,10; AMO 9:1; GEN 26:2; and JOH 14:9 God CAN be seen: "And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (EXO 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (EXO 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (GEN 32:30)
God CANNOT be seen: "No man hath seen God at any time."
(JOH 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (EXO 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1TIM 6:16)

11) Judge or not?

1 Cor 2:15 "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:" (NIV)
1 Cor 4:5 "Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God."

You come here and make outrageous statements about evolution and how life should be everywhere if "evolution is right". Yet the moment people criticize your statements with real facts, you run out of real answers and resort to standard "not a contradiction", "only god is the answer because HE is" bull# answers. You answered 2 with "not a contradiction" without any explanation...I guess you don't have any answers at all

You also mentioned the ontological argument, cosmological argument, teleological argument, and moral argument. I've shown you their flaws, but you continue to ignore it because criticizing those arguments goes against your world view....no matter how illogical the arguments are.

OT, I know nothing will ever convince you, you truly are a blind sheep!

reply to post by OldThinker


Good lord !

I feel violated. Now I'm forced to change my avatar... This one feels dirty....

Thanks for the laugh.