Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags

Richard Dawkins Likens Burqas To Trash Bags, Speaks Of 'Visceral Revulsion' To Islamic Veils

What a charming man.

I'm all for free speech but what happened to social tact? This seems to have been sacrificed at the expense of the former. My opinion? It's sometimes just a good excuse to be rude.

Outspoken British academic Richard Dawkins has sparked outrage by likening the burqa to a "full bin liner." [The British phrase for trash bag.]

In an interview with the Radio Times, the 69-year-old author and evolutionary biologist reportedly said he is filled with "visceral revulsion" when he sees Muslim women wearing the traditional, face-covering Islamic veils.

Yet Dawkins, well known as a prominent defender of atheism, stopped short of advocating a burqa ban.

I'm not a big fan of fundamentalist anything, and that goes for fundamentalist atheism too. These are some needless inflammatory statements that he could easily have kept behind closed doors.

"As a liberal, I would hesitate to propose a blanket ban on any style of dress because of the implications of individual liberty and freedom of choice," he told the Daily Mail after making his initial remarks.

That's awful nice of you Mr Dawkins... as a liberal. However your nasty comment will be jumped upon by anyone wishing for an outright ban, as you well know.

Personally I do not in anyway agree with a ban on the burqa, and the mere suggestion of banning an item of clothing in this day and age really pisses me off. It is not even illegal to wear a full Nazi uniform, just to put some perspective on the matter.

For women's rights? Bull...! How are we improving the rights of any member of society by removing their ability to wear a certain item of dress in public? Some women choose to wear the full Islamic dress, it does not say you have to in the Quran, so they are not being forced by religious leaders.

Some, a small percentage, may be forced by their husbands, and if a ban is in place will most likely therefore be forced to stay home. So we would not be helping these members of the community either.

For security? Bull...! Show me the stats that prove crimes are being committed in burqas? Burqa wearing Muslims are a very very small percentage of society.

Anyway contrasting views are always welcome, but please no needless bashing of Atheists or Muslims.

This is nothing new to me. I'm a Atheist and proud. There some Atheist that are just immature beyond belief. Of course numerous type of people have made negative comments of traditional religious dress. This one is no different and he should of never said these comments.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


It's all about whatever works for you! I'm not sure what I am these days, agnostic maybe... As you can tell not a big fan of banning things

I often get the impression Dawkins is playing a character of himself, almost like he feels he has to be outspoken about all religious issues.

reply to post by Big Raging Loner


Hey, it get's him notice doesn't it? A lot of non religious people do have good explanations as to why you wouldn't follow religion. Most though act like children and use name calling as a way to win an argument.

i ran into across a couple burkas at the thrift store..not trashbags as much as tents.
really- they dont fly with me. can i dress as i wish everywhere i go? - no.
i conform to a certain degree. maybe they do us a favor, it's all i can do to mind my
rude tongue making my way around the huge women at the store dressed in pajamas
with sweet cakes embroidered cross the ass. you know what -
i just argued my way to be pro-burka.

All I have to say, is that I am for once glad to see Dawkins dishing out to another religion besides Christianity.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


It certainly does get him notice, another celebrity for the world to enjoy. I suppose someone had to be the posterboy of atheism.

I think Richard Dawkins' problem is he finds it hard to imagine anything higher than Richard Dawkins.

reply to post by p51mustang


You should try Liverpool in England, people of all shapes and sizes go to the shops in pyjamas, and there are burqas too, a nice healthy mix!

reply to post by Big Raging Loner



Do you feel the same way when the very religious call women sluts and whores and condemn them for wearing skimpy outfits?

Just saying. Why should Dawkins, a free person in a free country that honors freedom of speech have to be tactful and considerate when many religious people do exactly the same kind of thing?

We may not ourselves want to jump on the discussion of the merits of this or that type of clothing, but why is what he is doing worth note? Because it is so rare among the secular to criticize clothing choices?

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Do you feel the same way when the very religious call women sluts and whores and condemn them for wearing skimpy outfits?

Yes I certainly do. I thought I made myself quite clear women should have the right to wear what they want, including both burqas and skimpy outfits. By removing their ability to wear certain items of clothing we are 'stripping' women of rights.

Like I also mentioned in the OP (which you definitely read didn't you?)

I have a distaste for all forms of fundamentalism, all forms would include both religious and non-religious alike.

Just saying. Why should Dawkins, a free person in a free country that honors freedom of speech have to be tactful and considerate when many religious people do exactly the same kind of thing?

Because he is a public figure with considerable influence. His comments were neither intelligent or helpful, and only create further tension and a feeling of alienation for Islamic women. You are therefore aiding my suggestion that he is no better than religious fundamentalists. Has he ever heard of the moral high ground? Or the idea of not stooping to someone's level? Apparently not.

We may not ourselves want to jump on the discussion of the merits of this or that type of clothing, but why is what he is doing worth note? Because it is so rare among the secular to criticize clothing choices?

1st question; What he is doing is worth note because as I say he is a public figure and has some influence over the beliefs of others. He should also be well aware, as I have already mentioned that his statements will be used and supported by anti-islamic members of society.

2nd question; Nope. Because he prides himself on being enlightened, and with disparaging and hurtful comments such as those he has made he has proved otherwise.

Personally although I didn't agree with his beliefs, I respected him for standing up for them. But I thought he had more class than this and was a gentlemen. However I no longer think that.

People say stupid things. No matter what "belief" they have everyone has put their foot in their mouth at one time or another. I'm sure deep inside he is regretting saying anything at all about this.

reply to post by Big Raging Loner


I actually did read the OP. You made no mention of how distasteful you found it when religious groups condemn women for what they wear, or dont wear as the case may be.

I respect your opinion if you really do criticize equally the religious for their actions. I have yet to see a thread on the topic, of how Christians are banning thong bikinis on beaches, etc. I look forward to seeing you make one since the criticism of clothing is a passion of yours.

And personally, I do think Dawkins is little better than a fundamentalist with his proselytizing on Atheism. He is entitled to his beliefs, but his fervor for atheism is not so different for the religious fervor displayed by some religious nuts. And no, I am not saying all religious people are nuts. I dont feel that way at all.

I do not agree that because he is a public figure he should be held to a different standard, however. He should have the right to say what he wants no matter what. Lord knows Rush Limbaugh, Pat Robertson, and a whole lot of other people do, no matter how tasteless, inflammatory, etc. they may be. It is their right.

For me the solution is not to shut people up, or censor them, (though of course you are free to criticize him) but for the majority of people to take their brains off the shelf, dust them off, and think for themselves for a change rather than just adopting someone elses opinion.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


You made no mention of how distasteful you found it when religious groups condemn women for what they wear, or dont wear as the case may be.

"For women's rights? Bull...! How are we improving the rights of any member of society by removing their ability to wear a certain item of dress in public?"

From the OP just there.

I respect your opinion if you really do criticize equally the religious for their actions. I have yet to see a thread on the topic, of how Christians are banning thong bikinis on beaches, etc.

Perhaps not by me but here is a thread by airspoon from the other day.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Personally I think it's such a common belief that religious groups complaining about women's dress is ridiculous that there doesn't need to be lots of threads on it.

For me the solution is not to shut people up, or censor them, (though of course you are free to criticize him) but for the majority of people to take their brains off the shelf, dust them off, and think for themselves for a change rather than just adopting someone elses opinion.

You are absolutely right and I wouldn't dream of it for a second, all I mentioned was his lack of social tact and manners, he could have provided a statement with a similar sentiment that did not cause as much offense.

Anyway I have enjoyed your side of the argument, and here's a star for taking your time to reply. It is always best to have differing opinions as we all become better people by listening to them, no matter how briefly.