Hellfire caves photo

the hellfire caves.....wasnt those used for pagan rituals back in the day?
wasnt ben franklin and a few other of our founding fathers involved in this? pretty sure they were. or was it the hellfire club...or are they both in the same? these otherwise respectable ladies and gentlemen cast off the sexual inhibitions and restrictions imposed by society to become a perverted congregation of debauched rakes and wanton sluts indulging in all manner of depraved, ritualistic displays of sexual domination & submission. As satyr and nymph disciples of Bacchus and Venus they pushed the boundaries of physical sex to new limits while exploring the psychological and emotional aspects of love and lust, power and control.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Nope...nobody was smoking... The caves themselves are a no smoking area as it is open to the public as a business.

It was not cold enough to create anyones breath.. We looked over all of the other 200+ photos and the video footage to see exactly how much (if any) breath was noticed...

Literally none. If there was any then it was not caught on film..at all.

Yes the figure does appear to be moving away from the camera and also appears to be looking backl over its left shoulder.. It is an amazingly proportioned image of a person that to be a case of matrixing is almost impossible, yet we cannot rule out matrixing unless more is discovered.

it was the mist on the floor that drew my attention to this figure in the first place..

The second pic of the mist in the cemetery is nothing to do with the investigation at hellfire, it is simply a random pic that someone took for comparison of a persons breath.. and that is what the second picture is of..someones breath.

If you match up the two images, there is a distinct difference between the two, but that could be argued as being an affect of temperature.

reply to post by SaturnFX


The caves themselve are carved out of chalk and are constantly wet.

This could havce some affect on a photograph, but there was over 200 taken this particular night and we have not found this type of mist in any of those photos or previously on past investigations that resembles what we see here.

The mist look like a 17th century monk.

Probably because Sir Francis Dashwood and his Hellfire Club Monks or Friars of Medmenham.

According to Horace Walpole, the members' "practice was rigorously pagan: Bacchus and Venus were the deities to whom they almost publicly sacrificed; and the nymphs and the hogsheads that were laid in against the festivals of this new church, sufficiently informed the neighborhood of the complexion of those hermits." Dashwood's garden at West Wycombe contained numerous statues and shrines to different gods; Daphne and Flora, Priapus and the previously mentioned Venus and Dionysus.[35] Meetings occurred twice a month, with an AGM lasting a week or more in June or September.[36] The members addressed each other as "Brothers" and the leader, which changed regularly, as "Abbot". During meetings members supposedly wore ritual clothing: white trousers, jacket and cap, while the "Abbot" wore a red ensemble of the same style.[37] Like Wharton's Club, rumours of Black Masses, orgies and Satan or demon Worship were well circulated during the time the Club was around. Other clubs, especially in Ireland and Scotland, were rumoured to take part in far more dubious activities. Rumours saw female "guests" (a euphemism for prostitutes) referred to as "Nuns". Dashwood's Club meetings often included mock rituals, items of a pornographic nature, much drinking, wenching and banqueting.[38]

en.wikipedia.org...

My speculation is somehow, their pagan rituals and devils worshiping had cause trouble or went wrong, their spirits are now locked in Hellfire Caves.

In addition to being a member of the Freemasons, an ancient fraternity linked to the occult, Franklin was also a member of "The Hellfire Club," when he lived in England. The Hellfire Club was an exclusive, English club that met sporadically during the mid 18th century. Its purpose, at best, was to mock traditional religion and conduct orgies. At worst, it involved the indulgence of satanic rites and sacrifices. The club to which Franklin belonged was established by Francis Dashwood, a member of Parliament and friend of Franklin. The club, which consisted of "The Superior Order," of 12 members, allegedly took part in basic forms of satanic worship. In addition to taking part in the occult, orgies and parties with prostitutes were also said to be the norm. It is said that all of the members of the society had political affiliations and political gossip was exchanged among the members as well as favors.

The motto of "The Hellfire Group" was, in Latin, "fay ce que voudrais," or, in English, "Do what you will."

In addition to promoting orgies and worshiping Satan, the members of the club, which was set up as a mock monastery, the members calling one another "Brother" and the prostitutes being referred to as "nuns," made public sacrifices to the deities Bacchus and Venus.

www.associatedcontent.com...



History Channel - Secrets of the Founding Fathers-the hellfire caves
great little video from the history channel explaining the history of what these caves where used for...and also talks about spirits being seen in these caves....
www.youtube.com...



[edit on 10-8-2010 by Funkydung]

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Funkydung]

Just in case anyone is having a hard time seeing the figure that we are talking about, I thought I'd do a (really) rough outline

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/66f8505754da.png[/atsimg]

reply to post by Extralien


That was the image I saw before editing.

Originally posted by EasternShadow
My speculation is somehow, their pagan rituals and devils worshiping had cause trouble or went wrong, their spirits are now locked in Hellfire Caves.

Always makes me smile that in this so-called 'Age of Enlightenment' we still continue to get people who think that Pagan Practices and Devil Worship are one and the same ... or at the very least inter-active.

Might I suggest a spot of research (easily done nowadays) before you tar all we Pagans with the same ill-informed brush ... there really is no excuse for holding such an archaic and ill-informed view, with the information access the internet availes to everyone in this day and age.

Sorry but if this sounds a little bit snappy but it's been a long day.

Woody

reply to post by Extralien


Hey there Extralien, just got your u2u so thanks for the head's up on your thread.

You know my history with Paranormal Investigation ... and you know that I always look for a logical explanation ... but the second I saw this it felt different from the usual things we capture ... I have to say that I really do think you've got something here.

The very first thing that jumped out at me were the legs ... very distinctive indeed. And with the other pictures you added it just confirms it for me.

I know the reputation of your team and I know that smoking would never be allowed during an investigtion so there is no possibility of it being cigarette smoke and as you mentioned in the OP it is to far away to be someones breath.

Brilliant picture well done to whoever took it !

I'd go as far as to suggest that this is one that should be sent for expert analysis ... it has the potential to become one of the famous photographs that turn-up time and time again when such topics are being discussed (like the 'Brown Lady' photograph) ... I really do think it's that good.

Woody

reply to post by woodwytch


Thank you very much Woody.. :0

Good to see you too.

Just to show a bit more on the legs, i was looking a bit closer a the image just a while ago and feel we may actually have the lower left leg..

Here is the "left leg and foot" from the original, zoomed and cropped
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f49e606bbe9a.png[/atsimg]
But here is the image after using contours option in ACDSee
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b9ebe57631d2.png[/atsimg]

It literally is like it is a person walking away.. you can also just make out what could be the right calf and foot.

Ok I can't see anything paranormal in the pic. I see a fog or mist. And in the gaps i see a shape which some think to be human in shape. Now at a depth of 10 feet underground with a surface temperature of 10-13 Celcius at night in that area then the underground temperature should be between 55-45 degrees farenheight depending on the ventilation. Now there is a naturally occuring mist in the caves. And the temp down there is more than chilly enough to produce visible breath.

Originally posted by woodwytch

Originally posted by EasternShadow
My speculation is somehow, their pagan rituals and devils worshiping had cause trouble or went wrong, their spirits are now locked in Hellfire Caves.

Always makes me smile that in this so-called 'Age of Enlightenment' we still continue to get people who think that Pagan Practices and Devil Worship are one and the same ... or at the very least inter-active.

Might I suggest a spot of research (easily done nowadays) before you tar all we Pagans with the same ill-informed brush ... there really is no excuse for holding such an archaic and ill-informed view, with the information access the internet availes to everyone in this day and age.

Sorry but if this sounds a little bit snappy but it's been a long day.

Woody

My comment and speculation is limited to referring Sir Francis Dashwood and his monks' activities. Their main goal was to mock religion. Surely, you don't expect me to believe Pagan of 'Age of Enlightenment' would practice the same rituals or 'black masses' as Sir Francis Dashwood and his Hellfire club did, now do you?

Peace.

EDIT : Typing Error.

[edit on 11-8-2010 by EasternShadow]

I saw the outline of a figure right away, but it doesn't appear to be walking away to me. It's like there is a man standing with his arms folded looking down. I can see an ear and what looks like a moustache, but matrixing has already been mentioned as accounting for this.

I usually shrug mist photographs off, but this is a good one.

To add the finer details for this picture, here you'll find the pictures directly before and the picture in question. I hope more brains can come in on this one as I would dearly love to know as much as possible about this pic of this "misty-ghosty" figure.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ef85747f9957.png[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f2c36c2bc569.png[/atsimg]

Here is what the photographer said about the pic;

The original image size is 2592 x 1944 pixels (a fair size, 2.17mb if anyone wants/needs the original), horizontal & vertical resolution is 300 pixels, exposure was set at 1/30sec, ISO 200 & the equivalent 35mm focal depth is 26.

ghostfinderuk.co.cc...

Here is the image embossed and with a very slight change of the levels. Again, I used ACDSee to do this.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fdc89e6610a9.jpg[/atsimg]

One estimation here has said the figure is about 10 feet away. We now have another estimation of the figure being about 6 feet away and is about 5 to 6 feet tall....

5 to 6 feet tall is a bit like saying it's the height of a full grown adult...

Please do come on in and help to work this out.. Is it matrixing, a trick of the light OR are we looking at a genuine image of a departed soul?

Originally posted by Extralien
Please do come on in and help to work this out.. Is it matrixing, a trick of the light OR are we looking at a genuine image of a departed soul?

The mist sighting on photograph is reported several times by different groups of Paranormal Researchers. The earliest photograph of mist at Hellfire Caves is dated 2006. I could be wrong. The possibilities it's a trick of the light is slim. But I could be wrong again.

The difference in temperature cause mist but it doesn't make any sense if it can only be seen through photograph.

I'll try to look further in matrixing.

Originally posted by EasternShadow

Originally posted by woodwytch

Originally posted by EasternShadow
My speculation is somehow, their pagan rituals and devils worshiping had cause trouble or went wrong, their spirits are now locked in Hellfire Caves.

Always makes me smile that in this so-called 'Age of Enlightenment' we still continue to get people who think that Pagan Practices and Devil Worship are one and the same ... or at the very least inter-active.

Might I suggest a spot of research (easily done nowadays) before you tar all we Pagans with the same ill-informed brush ... there really is no excuse for holding such an archaic and ill-informed view, with the information access the internet availes to everyone in this day and age.

Sorry but if this sounds a little bit snappy but it's been a long day.

Woody

My comment and speculation is limited to referring Sir Francis Dashwood and his monks' activities. Their main goal was to mock religion. Surely, you don't expect me to believe Pagan of 'Age of Enlightenment' would practice the same rituals or 'black masses' as Sir Francis Dashwood and his Hellfire club did, now do you?

Peace.

EDIT : Typing Error.

[edit on 11-8-2010 by EasternShadow]

Sorry if I misunderstood but that's how it read ... as I said it had been a long day !

Woody

Firstly, I think it is a great photograph!

Secondly, please excuse my ignorance, as I am sitting in Africa, and don't know much about the cave system at all.

I have read through the questions and answers, but to me it still looks authentic, not breath, and I can see a shape.

I am a photographer myself, and have taken pictures in dark and misty conditions before, but have never captured something like this.

I am not trying to debunk anything, but merely adding a question that might (or not) help the OP to find an explantion.

In the picture there is a dark line"around" the halway that looks like a place where two pieces of rock have been joined, maybe it is a crack in the cave wall. In some of the other pictures (taken before the image in question) there also appears what looks like holes in the walls of the cave. I was wondering that if there are holes, other passage ways intersecting, or a joint where a breeze (draft / moving air) could get through, would it be possilbe that the air movement could stir up the mist to form a "pilar of mist" that could look like a person?

Just a thought, I would love to see this photograph become one of the famous ones, but we have to explore all possibilities

reply to post by Old_RSA


The cave system itself is approximately 1/4 of a mile long and 300 feet under ground. The main, and only entrance/exit is on ground level, then there is a big hill directly above the rest of the caves.

The caves slope downwards as you walk deeper into it.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/75fb7ec205bd.jpg[/atsimg]

If I remember correctly, the photo was taken between the catacombs and the banqueting hall, but I will have to confirm this to be sure.. I was stood right next to the photographer at the time the pic was taken, but it was a long night and quite an intense investigation.. We had 4 teams of 4 people per team covering the entire cave system all night long.

Parts of the cave, such as the archway that is in front of the mist and behind it, have been added at a later date or are original. Someof it is brickwork whilst tha vast majority is the mined chalk.

The story goes that there is another chamber somewhere, but nobody knows where. I don't recall a breeze, but you do feel the temperature change as you walk deeper into the cave and it kinda fels like a pressure drop/breeze as you walk. The air is rather still down there unless you're all walking around. At the time of the pic, all 4 teams had been almost stationary doing their parts of the investigation. Each part takes about 20 minutes or so.

Those pictures are quite creepy OP. Thank you for sharing