Is it morally irresponsible to teach childeren about religion?

Originally posted by Mr Headshot
reply to post by Baloney

 

So because the Bible was written by people and in it is a mixture of wisdom for the modern day, not so wise things, and things which no longer make sense to modern man it should be completely disregarded?

If it contains "not so wise things" then you have a "not so wise" God then, right?

Take the good with the bad man. You can't have a strawberry colored world. Would you rather tell children that their lives are meaningless in the grand scheme of things and that they are really just going to live for a very short time and then die and their life will have meant nothing to anybody; that they are just some grand cosmic accident in a universe cold and unfeeling?

So your God is both GOOD and BAD (evil)??? Your God is perfect though, right? And children dont need an old caveman book written by WAR-mongering SAVAGE men to have a meanigful life.

GEEZ!!!

Want to break a child's spirit?

The world is full of wonderful spirit enlightening things all around you. A book so filled with MURDER, VIOLENCE, HATE, DIVISION, SEXISM, and RACISM is just NOT one of those things!!!

The crusade against ideas is retarded. I could care less if you tell your kids there is no God and that there is nothing magical in the universe. Just don't tell anyone else they can't tell their kids the opposite.

How is a crusade against MURDER, VIOLENCE, HATE, DIVISION, SEXISM, and RACISM "retarded"??? I believe their MAY be a God, BUT definitely not one represented by ANY of the religions. Thats EASY to see by reading them FULLY!!

reply to post by adjensen


The bibles hitlist

Some gems in there, I legitimately hope they were all taken out of context.

Aside from those, there's a little bit of "anti-everything" in the bible, anti-homosexual etc.






[edit on 10-8-2010 by Whyhi]

I don't believe in faith schools, but parents are going to bring up their kids in their own path whatever.

reply to post by Baloney


You have not-so-wise people.

As I said, different things work for different people. You sound like you think you're serving some great purpose by eliminating religion. There's nothing I can do to argue with you if that's what you believe. It'd be as pointless as arguing with a religious person about their religion.

Why so evangelical?


Also, you're not on a crusade against sexism murder baby raping ect, you are on a crusade against an idea. That idea is a tool and, as I've said, is malleable enough to be used for any purpose someone gives it.

You're trying to rid the world of hammers because they can bash people's skulls in.

The bible wasn't written by God, it was written by men and men have done some very terrible things. You don't care to understand a lot of what is in the bible so you take it at face value. So, there's no point in arguing with you. Zealot.

Most people that don't like religion are usually just against the many forms of Christianity. The Bible and Christianity are very judgmental. According to the Bible, there is a penalty you pay with your imortal soul for not accepting Jesus as the Christ. Most people really don't like being told what to do.

Children should be taught to love other people but to hate actions of greed cruelty and injustice. Morality is not about right or wrong, it's about whether a person's actions are love based or selfish. Religion is just a way some people worship their God(s).

Originally posted by Whyhi
reply to post by adjensen

 

The bibles hitlist

Some gems in there, I legitimately hope they were all taken out of context.

Aside from those, there's a little bit of "anti-everything" in the bible, anti-homosexual etc.

I will save you, I and the rest of the thread the trouble of a wearisome explanation, but Christians such as myself are not reconciled to God through Jewish Law, so quoting Old Testament admonitions are not relevant.

As a devout Christian, I am not anti-homosexual, nor anti-pagan, anti-evolution, or "anti" much of anything, aside from ignorance and false representations of my faith. I follow Christ's two commandments and leave the morality, doctrinal differences and perceptions as something which is between others and God. Or others and themselves, if they have dismissed God.

Originally posted by starchild10
I don't believe in faith schools, but parents are going to bring up their kids in their own path whatever.

We sent my grandson to a private Christian school - simply because the schools in Arizona suck. His mom is Christian - so that's OK.

But when they had these kids bring home a letter from the school - - and told the kids to make sure their mommy's and daddy's supported the Arizona version of Prop 8.

We yanked him out of there.

------------------------------------------------------

Why aren't there more non-religious private schools?

reply to post by born-indigo


I wrote a thread similar to this one a while back.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Mr Headshot


You failed to defend your side of the argument, and just flat-out gave up!!

I can understand why though, nobody wants to look silly. Therefore the reason why no pastor nor preacher has been able to answer it either. What a FAILURE for a religion!!

Originally posted by Baloney
reply to post by Mr Headshot

 

Therefore the reason why no pastor nor preacher has been able to answer it either.

Answer what? I replied to your question, I have yet to see a response to it from you.

You, however, have yet to explain how the abolition of religion would eliminate, or even greatly reduce, the amount of evil done by man, or answer why the good things that are done in the name of religion are ignored by your premise.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by adjensen]

I don't think any belief or non-belief - - in itself is the major problem.

I do think action taken in the name of a belief or non-belief - - can be both negative and positive.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Whyhi
reply to post by adjensen

 

The bibles hitlist

Some gems in there, I legitimately hope they were all taken out of context.

Aside from those, there's a little bit of "anti-everything" in the bible, anti-homosexual etc.

I will save you, I and the rest of the thread the trouble of a wearisome explanation, but Christians such as myself are not reconciled to God through Jewish Law, so quoting Old Testament admonitions are not relevant.

As a devout Christian, I am not anti-homosexual, nor anti-pagan, anti-evolution, or "anti" much of anything, aside from ignorance and false representations of my faith. I follow Christ's two commandments and leave the morality, doctrinal differences and perceptions as something which is between others and God. Or others and themselves, if they have dismissed God.

With all due respect - and I really do like your position (no sarcasm ), but:

How can you follow the NT but not acknowledge the evils done by YHWH in the OT?

Like how Yahweh commanded people to kill virgins and keep slaves???

I've never understood how followers of the Christian religion just never want to talk about that - or if they do, they justify it or better yet, they come up with their own reasons...

[edit on 8/10/2010 by impaired]

Religion goes wrong when religion teaches children that they should love their church before anybody else.

Example: You can't date or marry outside your religion.

It's just as bad as war in screwing people up. We don't need anymore goofy kids.

reply to post by adjensen


A simple history review would answer that one easily.

Are you suggesting that the world wouldnt be better without a book that commands its beleivers to be VIOLENT, RACIST, SEXIST, MURDERERS, right? Are you saying that??!!

Dont make me provide a list of who the bible INSTRUCTS TO KILL now.

That would bring you humiliation.

Just answer the above question please.

Originally posted by impaired

Originally posted by adjensen

I will save you, I and the rest of the thread the trouble of a wearisome explanation, but Christians such as myself are not reconciled to God through Jewish Law, so quoting Old Testament admonitions are not relevant.

As a devout Christian, I am not anti-homosexual, nor anti-pagan, anti-evolution, or "anti" much of anything, aside from ignorance and false representations of my faith. I follow Christ's two commandments and leave the morality, doctrinal differences and perceptions as something which is between others and God. Or others and themselves, if they have dismissed God.

With all due respect - and I really do like your position (no sarcasm

), but:

How can you follow the NT but not acknowledge the evils done by YHWH in the OT?

Like how Yahweh commanded people to kill virgins and keep slaves???

I've never understood how followers of the Christian religion just never want to talk about that - or if they do, they justify it or better yet, they come up with their own reasons...

[edit on 8/10/2010 by impaired]

I am not a fundamentalist, so I do not take the view that the Bible is inerrant.

Unlike Jews, who are reconciled to God through the Torah and Talmud, or Muslims, who are reconciled through the law in the Quran, Christians are reconciled to God through the person of Jesus Christ, not a book. The Bible is far less important (almost unnecessary, one could argue,) for a Christian than similar holy texts are for others.

The Old Testament is the story of God's relationship with the Jews, his establishment of the Law, and the foretelling of the Messiah, who we believe was Christ. It is the ancient testimony of Christ's divinity, and the Christian involvement with it kind of ends there, because we are not Jews and need not conform to the Law.

What the Jews thought God said or didn't say about things like virgins and slaves, or what they were supposed to eat or wear is not relevant to Christianity.

Again, start with your faith ("There is a God, he loves me, wants me to love him and love everyone else") and work OUT from there, not the other way around, and if something arises that is in conflict with it ("Kill homosexuals!" "Fly this plane into a building!") you have a solid foundation to argue from and respond with.

reply to post by adjensen


See, you cant have it BOTH WAYS!! The OT God is the NT God, and either you accept ALL of your God, or NONE of your God.

Cherry picking is all to common. The bible says NOT to be LUKEWARM in your faith or God will disregard and cast you out.

So are you LUKEWARM in your faith, as God DISLIKES, or do you AGREE in the ENTIRE book from your God?

We cant have it TWO WAYS FOLKS!!!! Your Bible EVEN SAYS YOU CANNOT!!!!

Which is it????

reply to post by born-indigo


Without religion or philosophy as an opposing force to science and nationalism, there is a high chance that we will end up living in a micromanaged dictatorship where free will and choice are evil. Trust me, this is already beginning to happen. I am even guessing that those of you who are against religion will tell me things like "well we need strict laws of the land in order to maintain order." You will probably also be against families, and even against any organized religion because both threaten the way of a nationalist dictator government.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by darkbake]

Originally posted by Baloney
reply to post by adjensen

 

A simple history review would answer that one easily.

It certainly would, but it would prove you wrong. Contrast the number of people killed for purely religious reasons in the last 100 years with the number of people killed for non-religious reasons. How many of its own citizens did the supposedly Christian United States kill since its inception? How many of their own citizens did the "beyond religion" nations like the Soviet Union, China and Cambodia kill? Did you know that estimates are that Pol Pot killed about 1/4 of his people?

Are you suggesting that the world wouldnt be better without a book that commands its beleivers to be VIOLENT, RACIST, SEXIST, MURDERERS, right? Are you saying that??!!

Yep.

Dont make me provide a list of who the bible INSTRUCTS TO KILL now.

That would bring you humiliation.

Just answer the above question please.

Oh, I'd hate for you to go to all that effort, particularly when one of your cronies has already done it for you by citing www.evilbible.com... The humiliation is palpable, let me tell you, lol.

However, as I pointed out to him, I am not Jewish, so the vast majority of that is of no relevance. Christ says to love God, and love everyone else, which makes it pretty hard to justify, through religion, hating and killing.

So I have answered two of your questions, but you have yet to meaningfully address any of mine. Start with explaining how the good that religion does, both worldwide, and on a personal basis for billions of people, is outweighed by the evil that is directly, and solely, attributed to religion does.

Originally posted by Baloney
reply to post by adjensen

 

See, you cant have it BOTH WAYS!! The OT God is the NT God, and either you accept ALL of your God, or NONE of your God.

I, of course, accept all of my God. You, however, do not understand Christian theology, or you wouldn't be asking foolish questions like this.

My faith is in Christ, not in the Bible. You can whinge all day long about passages in the Old Testament that you don't like, but as I am neither a fundamentalist (which is what you demand I be, apparently) or a Jew, you might as well whinge about "Hop on Pop", "Tuesdays with Morrie" or the "American Electrician's Handbook".

Christ said to build your house on a solid foundation, which is his two commandments. To deny that is to deny Christianity, which you're free to do, but good luck convincing me to.

I believe it is irresponsible to NOT teach children about the DANGERS of religion. It is important that kids know they control their own minds, not some unseen-absentee landlord!