reply to post by ModernAcademia
True conservatism has been confused with either neo-conservatism or the relatively new movement of the religious right. If you believe in imposing
your will on others or restricting people's personal liberties, you aren't truly conservative.
Lately, Americans have been mislead into believing that the false left-right paradigm is American politics when that is not even close to the truth.
Sure, that's the only choice we are given in the US but it is the political system that confines our beliefs to this narrow two-dimensional model.
Instead of American politics shaping itself to conform to the beliefs of the people, the people conform to the political system, too soon forgetting
that politics is much more complex than that. I have theorized about why this is so for a while now, though it is irrelevant to this discussion at
hand so for the sake of brevity, I leave this for another thread.
Take the Nolan Chart for example. This provides another dimension to American politics, with the top of this diamond being for more personal freedom.
You can actually take a very small quiz
to see where you really stand on politics.
Come on man, leave your home because you don't agree with a growing perspective where you live?
That's not fair
And what if they can't afford to leave? Assimilate like the borg?
You might as well tell Palestine to become jewish if they wish to stay there
Nobody is saying that anyone has to move, however if you don't like your present situation, then you can either choose to accept it or leave. Nobody
is forcing anyone else to live anywhere. If you can't afford to move, then you just have to accept and respect other people's choices that don't
affect you and continue on with your life. It doesn't cost anything to walk out of your front door.
No one is forcing you to assimilate. If you don't like the gay bar down the street, then don't go. If you don't like the strip club, then don't
go. The only people trying to force others to assimilate, are the religious right, neo-conservatives, socialists and anyone else who doesn't believe
Your example of Palestine assimilating into Judaism is wrong and backwards. You have to break everything down to its ;lowest common denominator and
that is force. Who is the initiator of force? No one is forcing this church to patronize the strip club, though the church is trying to force people
away from patronizing the strip club.
The whole issue here is force. No one should be able to initiate force against anyone else and that is the very foundation of liberty. Now, this
isn't saying that you can't respond to force with force, only that you shouldn't initiate force. The initiation of force is against the laws of
nature and anything else is a form of oppression. When I use the term "force", I use it to mean any type of force, whether it be financial force,
martial force, physical force, legislative force, etc...
I don't get how you think it is "unfair" to suggest that someone either accept their surroundings or move if they don't want to, yet you think
it's "fair" to impose your will on others.
If you purchase a house and you don't like the color of the neighbor's house (purple). You have two options. You can either accept it or you can
move. You shouldn't be able to force your neighbor to repaint his house. Nobody is forcing you to live their and if you were to move, it would be
your choice. On the other hand, if you were to force your neighbor to change the color of his home, it would be you initiating the force and not your
neighbor's choice. Why would your opinion be more valuable than his?
You seem to see it as either this extreme or the other.
No, I see it as an issue of liberty. Freedom is black and white and it's something that you either have or don't have. You can't be a little free
or have a little liberty. Initiating force against someone else is extreme.
Like even if you are in your 20s conservatives see it as NO YOU CANNOT, instead of you can but please don't, i don't agree with it and i will
fight for my society not to be so radicalized.
Or the other extreme where it's just let them do what they want and don't care.
I'm not saying this is how you feel, but that's what i'm reading.
I'm sure that's not how you feel though.
I agree with liberty and completely disagree with tyranny or oppression. For instance, I believe that consenting adults should have every liberty to
do everything, up until it impedes the liberty of someone else. If someone wants to shoot crack into their veins, then it is none of my business, so
long as it doesn't affect me. Who am I to say I know what is best for this person? On the same note, only I know what's best for me and no man
should have the power to direct my life. I'm a grown man and should be able to make my own choices. I don't need a nanny to do that for me.
Unfortunately, we have been indoctrinated to believe otherwise. Who are we to decide the direction in which others live? Are we somehow better? Who's
to decide what is best and what isn't? If it doesn't affect us, it should be none of our business.
If I don't like the color purple, then I should either deal with it or make my own choices that will limit my contact with the color. I shouldn't be
able to force others from wearing or using the color. It really is that simple. If someone doesn't like the strip club, then they don't have to
patronize it. A strip club doesn't initiate force against anyone by just existing. If someone doesn't like gay marriage, then don't marry a
homosexual. Homosexual marriage does not affect those who don't believe in it. It is the same principal across the board. You look at an issue and
break it down by deciding who is the initiator of force.
For example, I don't agree with gay marriage or even strip clubs so I simply won't marry a homosexual and I won't visit a strip club. I'll try to
raise my children in a manner to which they will hold my same values. If the grow up and ditch those values, that's their choice. I'll be sad but
I'll also respect their choice as it should be theirs to make.
Most conservatives that I know, to include myself, believe that people should be able to make their own choices in life and that government shouldn't
be a part of the equation.
Sorry, RL calls, though I'll finish my response to your post when I return.
Edited to add:
p.s. please keep in mind that my use of the term "you", isn't really to denote you as in you, just trying to get the point across. Also, I'm not
trying to suggest that you believe anything that I was preaching against, it only came across that way. I don't want to put words in your mouth and
that wasn't my intentions at all.
[edit on 9-8-2010 by airspoon]