9/11 Censorship in New York

Edit: This post is not really about this bus ad, it's about censorship of 911 images in New York in general. I added this edit because most people were losing that point. I only site the ad above as an example of said censorship. Don't get hung up on the ads details, lets discuss 911 image censorship in general.

Source: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...

A group of concerned citizens wanted to run a bus ad in New York asking the question why put the newly proposed mosque so close to the site of the 911 attack. They claim they are getting their 1st amendment rights trampled on and censored.

Today we filed a lawsuit against the city of New York. Here is the complaint: ( get a copy of complaint from the website, there is a link)

The city has refused to run my SIOA "Preservation of Ground Zero" bus campaign.

The ad was refused. I asked on what grounds. CBS Outdoor told me that the city said that "images of 911 were not allowed." I was floored. I said, "It is American history. How can it be banned? What about Pearl Harbor? Is that censored too?" I said, "On what grounds are 911 images banned?" It is unconscionable. Will of CBS said, "You can't run the plane."

I asked CBS/MTA to provide me with the guidelines for these seventh-century censorship restrictions. They never did. And so, with the help of talented and singular Big Fur Hat, I removed the plane and submitted this ad with the following note:

Will, Still waiting for the MTA guidelines. Please respond to my previous queries. Here is the new art ...... please know that I strenuously object to you changing my artwork and my message in the process. It's American history. I am floored.

CBS refused this ad as well. They said I had to remove the smoke. "The smoke?"

When I spoke to CBS's representative concerning the second rejection of my Ground Zero bus ad, he said that the MTA "doesn't want to associate the new building with Ground Zero." The showing of the burning buildings "hurts people." "Hurts people?" I find bus ads proselytizing for Islam hurts apostates, are you going to take those bus ads down?

I said, "Are you saying images of the largest attack on American soil are censored? Are Pearl Harbor images censored? Gettysburg, too?"

Much more at the link above Please read the whole page.

See images of the bus ads in various stages with and without plane and smoke removed, at the link above.

Do you agree? Should images of 911 be censored in New York?

After all these images do reflect the official story told to us through the media, why should they be banned in New York?

Edit: This post is not really about this bus ad, it's about censorship of 911 images in New York in general. I added this edit because most people were losing that point. I only site the ad above as an example of said censorship. Don't get hung up on the ads details, lets discuss 911 image censorship in general.

[edit on 9-8-2010 by JohnPhoenix]

Time out... Ask this too:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Amaterasu


I have seen your thread and I do not agree with your standpoint.

I believe these concerned citizens have the right to ask the questions they are asking and the bus ad should be allowed.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


You did see the ad didn't you? Just saying.....it's obvious to me it's meant to fan the flames that further divide so many of us.

Plus, is it true? On 911 2011, is there suddenly going to be a WTC "mega" Mosque appear?

I doubt a 13 story, community center/mosque is going to be "mega", as the illustration in the ads make it appear to be. And it's not at the World Trade Center, either, so what's up with the WTC in the title of the mosque?
And, it's not even on any of the streets that encompassed the WTC site.
It's two blocks away.

Yeah, yeah. It's too close. So how far would be far enough away?

5 blocks? 10 blocks? New Jersey? San Diego? Saudi Arabia?

I believe organizations should be able to advertise. I also believe other organizatons should be allowed to refuse an ad, including government entities.

The publicized reasoning for refusing to accept the image of the ad is wimpy and BS, in my opinion. The city should be more honest than that in it's rejection reasons.

Just like I believe the ad is BS.

I'd rather have honesty in advertisement. In fact, I believe it should be required. Just like honesty in government should be required.

But we know how that goes.........

Because this is an event thousands upon thousands of New Yorkers have witnessed. All these people watched thousands die before their eyes. Nobody wants to be reminded of that day, why don't they put images of the World Trade Center before the attacks instead of putting images of 9/11.

reply to post by kyred


Forget about the details of the Ad for a moment. That is really not what this post is about. It's about censorship of 911 images in New York in general.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


It is distasteful to say the least.

And personally I do not agree with the Mosque being built there.

No, I am not saying I do not believe in Freedom of Speech, I do.

No, I am not saying I do not believe in Freedom of Religion, I do.

No, I am not saying I do not believe in people having different perspectives, I do.

However, tasteful, distasteful, disrespectful, it is both an insult for the Mosque to built there as it is ignorant of the sign being used, because it fans more ignorance.

But then again, so is it distasteful that 19 men, some Saudi, some other foreigners did this atrocious action, and so is it distasteful that the F.B.I. was hamstrung by Bush.

A Commission to investigate an incident of this nature, is nothing more than a buffer, to keep those within the Law Enforcement community from doing their jobs.

Distancing Bush and his family from embarrassment of knowing the Bin Laden family.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/edcea9fdd932.jpg[/atsimg]

Just as much as the above picture is distasteful of the World Wildlife Fund to use.

Controversial New 9/11 Ad (must see)

Being discussed over on the thread above.

Now, on to my reason for stating the distastefulness, and my statement about Bush.

The Bin Ladens: An Arabian Family in the American Century

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/df5dc657613c.jpg[/atsimg]

Publisher's Weekly : Amazon Review :

The bin Ladens are famous for spawning the world's foremost terrorist and building one of the Middle East's foremost corporate dynasties.

Pulitzer Prize–winner Coll (Ghost Wars) delivers a sprawling history of the multifaceted clan, paying special attention to its two most emblematic members.

Read the book I assure you it covers the Government (Bush more than any other) interaction with Bin Laden's whole family, their family even built military bases, for the United States.

Either we are at war with Muslim's or we are not.

Yes, I recognize there are factions, yes I recognize not all Muslim's see themselves as being at war with America, however, in light of that fact it does mean we need to consider the actions of those desiring a Mosque this close to the sight of the 9/11 tragedy, at Ground Zero as suspect, because through circumspect means this could very well be a double-entendre insult.

Add insult to injury in other words.

Personally, I am not at war, with Muslim's, or anyone else for that matter.

But our country is a different animal altogether.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/30e47717d3af.jpg[/atsimg]

God bless the fallen, never forget who they are, God damn those who did this, everyone complicity and or tacitly guilty.

Any way, shape, or form.

And may those who acted upon these events in any way go to jail for the rest of their lives.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/35a9105bad2f.jpg[/atsimg]

Considering 9 out of every 10 New Yorkers and I end up hating each other I still stand behind them.

[edit on 9-8-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by Mythic Chris
Because this is an event thousands upon thousands of New Yorkers have witnessed. All these people watched thousands die before their eyes. Nobody wants to be reminded of that day, why don't they put images of the World Trade Center before the attacks instead of putting images of 9/11.

As you would see if you went to the source link, they did just that.. changed the images of the WTC to pre 911 images.

Yes, painful that's true but I do think we should remember that day and what happened no matter how painful. I do want to be reminded of that day, thousands of people do. It's necessary that we don't forget lest we let it happen again.

People say Remember the Alamo. The Alamo; a struggle of Texans against Mexico because Mexico outlawed slavery and the Texans fought because they wanted to keep their slaves. That's why Texas left Mexico and asked to become a state in The United States. Texas becoming a state is based on human suffering. Yet, people stupidly willingly wish to remember that dark time.

I find it much more worthwhile to remember 911. The day that woke Americans up to the reality of international terrorism and the destruction they can bring. It's very patriotic to do so.

double post...again
"sigh"



[edit on 9-8-2010 by Mythic Chris]

In New York, CBS/MTA says certain 911 images are against their rules because they are painful reminders.

Does anyone else know of other companies/government agencies that censor such images? Is this a whole wide New York thing/law to not be allowed to show images of 911?

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Okay, I will forget about the less than true details of an ad that was refused to be placed on buses. Okay.

When your parents die from a house fire, a picture of their house burning will be put on a bus to prevent people from building that Walmart 2 blocks away.

I think these images are very healthy. I would like to see images of 911 all over the place connected with border control as a reminder how important it is to stop the terrorists that's coming into this country through the border.

I think that would be a very effective campaign.

It's the people who lost loved ones who should embrace these types of images the most. They are the ones who know first hand how bad letting terrorists into this country is and should have the loudest voices.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
I think these images are very healthy. I would like to see images of 911 all over the place connected with border control as a reminder how important it is to stop the terrorists that's coming into this country through the border.

I think that would be a very effective campaign.

It's the people who lost loved ones who should embrace these types of images the most. They are the ones who know first hand how bad letting terrorists into this country is and should have the loudest voices.

the people who lost loved ones should move on and try to forget about it, I HIGHLY doubt that they would want their loved ones tomb being paraded around the city only to prevent a place of worship thats 2-3 blocks away.

lol@censorship

They don't have to run her ridiculous, lying ads. This woman is a flaming lunatic dingbat opportunist pig.

Read her whole website while you're there.

Pamela Geller (her website) wanted to put this ad on buses and in subways all over NYC.



Notice how big and scary the "mosque" is. How towering and threatening. Notice the false opening/groundbreaking date still in the ad.

It would have been an effective ad, eh? She went on for days on her website about how CBS and the MTA in NYC were refusing to run her ad. It's a veryinteresting glimpse into her mind works though, isn't it? So is her website.

Well I made an image to show how big the real Islamic center, sizewise, would look in proportion to the WTC. See the red in the lower left? That wouldbe the size of the center...maybe even not as wide, because I estimated that from the width of the old building.



The location is not exact though...remember there is no line of sight view from the proposed location of the center to ground zero.

More on her and this whole fiasco in this thread.




[edit on 8/9/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by ~Lucidity


As I have tried to say repeatedly this thread is not about the content of those ads but about 911 image censorship in New York in general. Can you speak on that subject?

If the CBS/MTA has this policy, I want to know what other agencies have this same policy. Is this something that is illegal in New York - Or is this just confined to the CBS/MTA ?

I want to hear from people who live in New York.

Do you see a censorship of 911 type images?

There's no image censorship in NYC, not anymore than there is anywhere else in the media and advertising regarding 9/11 and the images. They are dealt with sensitivity, not censorship. And I was exactly on subject. It's not censorship she's dealing with. They simply objected to the whole taste of her ad...which was revolting and full of lies and deception, as she is, so I wouldn't believe a word of what she says they said. Let her sue away and prove it in court. Otherwise, I'm glad they didn't accept this POS ad. That's my opinion. And again, it's exactly on topic.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
I want to hear from people who live in New York.

Do you see a censorship of 911 type images?

Damnit, I could walk around NYC with a shirt showing the towers blow up if I wanted too, nobody wants to because its ****ing insensitive.
Come over here and wear a shirt yourself, nobody is going to stop you.

But you will piss off a lot of people and hurt others feelings from being reminded of that day.
And then there are these 9/11 conspiracy theorists who has never seen the attach first hand and make up this bull**** that hurts the families of the victims.

I'm not from New York although I have visited. It is a stunning city, seen from the air, specially if you're an "aw shucks" guy like me from itty bitty Toronto.

I loved Mahattan, what I saw of it. Lots of great restaurants, happy people in the streets. Very nice ambience, specially around Central Park. That was in the early 1980's. Only spent overnight there. Had a great time.

I used to have a great deal of respect for New York based on an image of the city that has been built up by television and the movies. So much can happen "in a New York minute".

Then along came 9/11. Reality check.

Highly questionable incidents occurred. Firemen and other New Yorkers were murdered en mass, in circumstances that seemed clear cut at the time but which have become increasingly murky and convoluted. Many questions went unanswered. A certain New York developer's big mouth brought him under suspicion. Many inquiries were delayed or undertaken only with the greatest reluctance.

During the clean-up phase after the attack, the government, so quick to rally the people to war against the innocent, now waxed weasley, equivocating on the subject of air quality and responsibility for the health care of responders.

Pursuit of those allegedly responsible for the attack went by the boards in a scramble for reconstruction contracts in Iraq, sweetheart deals in the Iraqi oilfields and a highly questionable effort at "nation building" in Afghanistan.

The president said, according to the demands of any given press conference, "we are after those responsible", "we aren't concerned about bin Laden", "it's a wider war on terrorism".

Is it? Or is it a wider war on the US budget? A war of plunder and rapine?

Back to New York.

Currently I am watching a multi-part video on the French Revolution, most of which took place in Paris. Parisians have ripped up the cobblestones for weapons more than once in the long story of France. Even within the last couple of years elements of them have taken to the streets in a rough house way. Getting Parisians into the streets on a political matter is almost no problem at all. The French government takes Paris and the Parisians very, very seriously.

The US government doesn't take New York seriously at all, not even a little bit. And as recent history has shown, they are right not to. As far as smarts, balls, righteous indignation leading to righteous action goes, New York City couldn't carry Paris's public works department pylons.

Or . . . maybe that's why 9/11 images are censored in New York. I don't know. I'm a foreigner.


[edit on 14-8-2010 by ipsedixit]