My family thought the way the article talks.
My brother and I were the first of our family to graduate college. We were a blue collar family that believed in bettering itself.
My kids benefited in return. We placed a high value on education and both my children have masters degrees and it looks like my youngest may go for
the PhD.
There is no one specific school of thought for all blue collar workers, but my family did believe in education.
Peggy Noonan ignorantly reports "America at the boiling point", page 1
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Topic started on 9-8-2010 @ 11:57 AM by HunkaHunka
So it's been a while since I've posted. I've been busy trading and making moola... but I digress...
I read an article today in the WSJ by Peggy Noonan, who evidently has no idea what blue collar workers think.
Here is the link to the article.
Here is the passage which I think highlights some amazing ignorance, and to a great degree arrogance:
What family did this woman grow up in? It wasn't representative of my upbringing for sure. Indeed, it isn't even representative of my father or mothers upbringing. The only thing that my father thought of when pulling up those boots, was getting home to a good meal and a nice case (yes case) of beer.
You see, my father, born in 33, came from a family of railroaders. He had a full sports scholarship but didn't take it because that was not a respected path in my family. Instead, the day after he graduated highschool, he was sleeping in a train car working on the railroad, just like his father. My cousin, who was the only one to become educated in our family, was looked down upon because she had left the tradition and actually went to college and then on to a career working with the Girl Scouts.
You see, for my father, the narrative was not about getting educated and making more money, it was a narrative of the honor and life that comes with hard labor. It never really made sense to me, but it is what it is. Once again, I'm not sure where Peggy Noonan gets her generalizations from.
As for my mother, (16 years my fathers junior), her Mother was the same way, though she cleaned houses. For my grandmother, there was no thought of her children going to college... and if they did, well fine, they would be paying for it themselves.
No for her, the most valuable thing was continued hard work without much reward other than a meal and a nice place to sleep. This narrative was so strong, that my mother made it clear to me that if I ever decided to go to college, it would be me paying for it, not anyone else. My mother eventually did become an RN (Registered Nurse) after joining school when I was 10.
Now my wifes family is much different. Her family, being african american, put a lot of stock in "america will be a better place for my children" mantra. But then again, you could only go up from the segregated jim crow south.
My point here is, that Peggy Noonan seems to be vastly out of touch with the midwest philosophy that shaped and continues to shape my family and the families of those I grew up with. Are there some folks who feel this way... sure. But none in the midwest that I grew up in. We are a working class people who don't put much stock at all in education, but in occupation. We are a very conservative lot, which don't accept change too easily...
It's nice that Peggy likes to fantasize that America feels the way she has depicted, but its pretty obvious that if she believes this blather, that she is incredibly out of touch with the America that my family has known for several generations.
I read an article today in the WSJ by Peggy Noonan, who evidently has no idea what blue collar workers think.
Here is the link to the article.
Here is the passage which I think highlights some amazing ignorance, and to a great degree arrogance:
The country I was born into was a country that had existed steadily, for almost two centuries, as a nation in which everyone thought—wherever they were from, whatever their circumstances—that their children would have better lives than they did. That was what kept people pulling their boots on in the morning after the first weary pause: My kids will have it better. They'll be richer or more educated, they'll have a better job or a better house, they'll take a step up in terms of rank, class or status. America always claimed to be, and meant to be, a nation that made little of class. But America is human. "The richest family in town," they said, admiringly. Read Booth Tarkington on turn-of-the-last-century Indiana. It's all about trying to rise.
What family did this woman grow up in? It wasn't representative of my upbringing for sure. Indeed, it isn't even representative of my father or mothers upbringing. The only thing that my father thought of when pulling up those boots, was getting home to a good meal and a nice case (yes case) of beer.
You see, my father, born in 33, came from a family of railroaders. He had a full sports scholarship but didn't take it because that was not a respected path in my family. Instead, the day after he graduated highschool, he was sleeping in a train car working on the railroad, just like his father. My cousin, who was the only one to become educated in our family, was looked down upon because she had left the tradition and actually went to college and then on to a career working with the Girl Scouts.
You see, for my father, the narrative was not about getting educated and making more money, it was a narrative of the honor and life that comes with hard labor. It never really made sense to me, but it is what it is. Once again, I'm not sure where Peggy Noonan gets her generalizations from.
As for my mother, (16 years my fathers junior), her Mother was the same way, though she cleaned houses. For my grandmother, there was no thought of her children going to college... and if they did, well fine, they would be paying for it themselves.
No for her, the most valuable thing was continued hard work without much reward other than a meal and a nice place to sleep. This narrative was so strong, that my mother made it clear to me that if I ever decided to go to college, it would be me paying for it, not anyone else. My mother eventually did become an RN (Registered Nurse) after joining school when I was 10.
Now my wifes family is much different. Her family, being african american, put a lot of stock in "america will be a better place for my children" mantra. But then again, you could only go up from the segregated jim crow south.
My point here is, that Peggy Noonan seems to be vastly out of touch with the midwest philosophy that shaped and continues to shape my family and the families of those I grew up with. Are there some folks who feel this way... sure. But none in the midwest that I grew up in. We are a working class people who don't put much stock at all in education, but in occupation. We are a very conservative lot, which don't accept change too easily...
It's nice that Peggy likes to fantasize that America feels the way she has depicted, but its pretty obvious that if she believes this blather, that she is incredibly out of touch with the America that my family has known for several generations.
reply posted on 9-8-2010 @ 01:56 PM by centurion1211
reply to post by HunkaHunka
Your OP is nothing more than an anecdotal story with a sample size of exactly one that you are trying to expand into having us believe ALL blue collar workers think like they do in your family. Sort of like the people that claim there is or isn't global warming because it's hot or cold where they are right now.
Just perhaps Ms. Noonan had "a bit" more informational resources to draw on than you do in putting together her article? Ya think?
Your OP is nothing more than an anecdotal story with a sample size of exactly one that you are trying to expand into having us believe ALL blue collar workers think like they do in your family. Sort of like the people that claim there is or isn't global warming because it's hot or cold where they are right now.
Just perhaps Ms. Noonan had "a bit" more informational resources to draw on than you do in putting together her article? Ya think?
reply posted on 9-8-2010 @ 07:21 PM by Jovi1
reply to post by HunkaHunka
She really isn't fantasizing, and her depiction is pretty accurate to what once was. Just because your family didn't really talk about it doesn't make the sentiment not true. It never had to be talked about really, for most of the preceding generation it was a given that you would do better than they had, because that was what happened here.
You didn't have to go to school because the general belief was if you work hard you would be able to find a job that you could support your family with. You would generally have it a bit better and a bit easier than they did. You could conceivably work your way up through experience and hard work.
As a nation we are at a place where we have not been for a long time. For the first time in around 100 years the current generation has failed to not only exceed but have trouble meeting the standard of life of the one that came before it.
We used to be a nation that built things. Our leaders sold out the long term welfare of this nation back in the 70's through the 90's to corporate interests. They deliberately siphoned all the nations wealth to the top and then said well it will all trickle back down. They didn't use those funds to invest back into the manufacturing in this country, they used it to invest overseas and once those facilities were ready they shipped off our jobs.
How do you have free trade with countries like Mexico? You can't the standard of living there was not equal to ours. Even now with our manufacturing based there they do not want those jobs. Why? Because those jobs do not pay what they paid here. So now you got us screaming about our boarder issues without people ever once realizing that even with our jobs sent across the boarder they still have a better shot at making a decent living here.
I fear for another situation like World War 2 to hit us because we will get our backsides handed to us rather quickly. Even with the Depression we had an advantage. The infrastructure to produce was still there, it may not have been used but it was there. Can we say that now?
We will never see true prosperity again until we see tariffs leveled and our government quits giving tax breaks to companies manufacturing outside of the US. We will never glimpse it again until our corporations quit chasing the maximum amount of profit possible, and get back to the maximum sustainable profit. Now we have a bunch of companies trying to sell goods to the broke ass poor and the corporate management can't seem to figure out when all the wealth is in the ever growing pool at the top, everyone else is more concerned with what they are going to eat.
We are tapped out or close enough near it. Why do think they were so quick to extend out credit to people they would never have 10 years ago? Because they were trying to get as much as they could before the house of cards came crashing down.
Henry Ford prided himself on the fact that he set out not only to build a car that the working American could afford to buy, but that he could afford to pay his workers enough to enjoy a comfortable living while doing it.
What does the average American want? They want their fair share of the pie. What does the top 1% want? They want everyone else's share and right now they have it.
And this article gets to the heart of it, if things continue to go like they are, it is only a matter of time that the underclasses do what they invariably always do, revolt.
[edit on 8/9/2010 by Jovi1]
She really isn't fantasizing, and her depiction is pretty accurate to what once was. Just because your family didn't really talk about it doesn't make the sentiment not true. It never had to be talked about really, for most of the preceding generation it was a given that you would do better than they had, because that was what happened here.
You didn't have to go to school because the general belief was if you work hard you would be able to find a job that you could support your family with. You would generally have it a bit better and a bit easier than they did. You could conceivably work your way up through experience and hard work.
As a nation we are at a place where we have not been for a long time. For the first time in around 100 years the current generation has failed to not only exceed but have trouble meeting the standard of life of the one that came before it.
We used to be a nation that built things. Our leaders sold out the long term welfare of this nation back in the 70's through the 90's to corporate interests. They deliberately siphoned all the nations wealth to the top and then said well it will all trickle back down. They didn't use those funds to invest back into the manufacturing in this country, they used it to invest overseas and once those facilities were ready they shipped off our jobs.
How do you have free trade with countries like Mexico? You can't the standard of living there was not equal to ours. Even now with our manufacturing based there they do not want those jobs. Why? Because those jobs do not pay what they paid here. So now you got us screaming about our boarder issues without people ever once realizing that even with our jobs sent across the boarder they still have a better shot at making a decent living here.
I fear for another situation like World War 2 to hit us because we will get our backsides handed to us rather quickly. Even with the Depression we had an advantage. The infrastructure to produce was still there, it may not have been used but it was there. Can we say that now?
We will never see true prosperity again until we see tariffs leveled and our government quits giving tax breaks to companies manufacturing outside of the US. We will never glimpse it again until our corporations quit chasing the maximum amount of profit possible, and get back to the maximum sustainable profit. Now we have a bunch of companies trying to sell goods to the broke ass poor and the corporate management can't seem to figure out when all the wealth is in the ever growing pool at the top, everyone else is more concerned with what they are going to eat.
We are tapped out or close enough near it. Why do think they were so quick to extend out credit to people they would never have 10 years ago? Because they were trying to get as much as they could before the house of cards came crashing down.
Henry Ford prided himself on the fact that he set out not only to build a car that the working American could afford to buy, but that he could afford to pay his workers enough to enjoy a comfortable living while doing it.
What does the average American want? They want their fair share of the pie. What does the top 1% want? They want everyone else's share and right now they have it.
And this article gets to the heart of it, if things continue to go like they are, it is only a matter of time that the underclasses do what they invariably always do, revolt.
[edit on 8/9/2010 by Jovi1]
reply posted on 9-8-2010 @ 08:53 PM by davidmann
reply to post by HunkaHunka
Yeah, I'm with her. I'd be proud if I had had, at their age, the values my folks had. They knew as mere children, already married, that when attending Birch Society meetings there were marxists in the crowd, taking info. Now they're in power. They eventually wearied of saying things like 'unicef is a communist organization' to persons with notepads, tape recorders, though, and got caught up in the race. Ideologies are an expensive habit when you have kids at 24.
As for your 'success', my last trade came when a trader sold his shares ahead of me in line, for a penny more than my ask, to which scottrade said that's life, basically. I had a few hundred low price shares. Someone knew something, and it was all downhill after that. It sounds like you had an unusual upbringing. They held you down and you found a new low for survival. I didn't think you were going to go straight, after the opening line. Do you guys really drink ketel 1 vodka?
I think derivatives should be eliminated. You guys can short anything to oblivion, and cause anything to go up, eh? Can't say I get it. Maybe jealous. What it must be like to throw secrets around and hold back money at whim...
My folks put me to shame in terms of what they'd done to take care of business. I thank God they did what they'd done, even though they lost all political and ideological interest as time went by. I cannot see a flourishing economy for the average joe in my lifetime. Not anymore. There won't be any pensions either. We can sit back and enjoy 'how'd you get so rich' and all it's perversities today and all tomorrows, while bells toll in the background as pols set their sights on cap n trade. The environment is trashed for overall economic health, no matter how they show it on the telescreen. Just the script they've written could kill it, by it's intent to deliver.
Yeah...let's start a business!
[edit on 9-8-2010 by davidmann]
[edit on 9-8-2010 by davidmann]
[edit on 9-8-2010 by davidmann]
Yeah, I'm with her. I'd be proud if I had had, at their age, the values my folks had. They knew as mere children, already married, that when attending Birch Society meetings there were marxists in the crowd, taking info. Now they're in power. They eventually wearied of saying things like 'unicef is a communist organization' to persons with notepads, tape recorders, though, and got caught up in the race. Ideologies are an expensive habit when you have kids at 24.
As for your 'success', my last trade came when a trader sold his shares ahead of me in line, for a penny more than my ask, to which scottrade said that's life, basically. I had a few hundred low price shares. Someone knew something, and it was all downhill after that. It sounds like you had an unusual upbringing. They held you down and you found a new low for survival. I didn't think you were going to go straight, after the opening line. Do you guys really drink ketel 1 vodka?
I think derivatives should be eliminated. You guys can short anything to oblivion, and cause anything to go up, eh? Can't say I get it. Maybe jealous. What it must be like to throw secrets around and hold back money at whim...
My folks put me to shame in terms of what they'd done to take care of business. I thank God they did what they'd done, even though they lost all political and ideological interest as time went by. I cannot see a flourishing economy for the average joe in my lifetime. Not anymore. There won't be any pensions either. We can sit back and enjoy 'how'd you get so rich' and all it's perversities today and all tomorrows, while bells toll in the background as pols set their sights on cap n trade. The environment is trashed for overall economic health, no matter how they show it on the telescreen. Just the script they've written could kill it, by it's intent to deliver.
Yeah...let's start a business!
[edit on 9-8-2010 by davidmann]
[edit on 9-8-2010 by davidmann]
[edit on 9-8-2010 by davidmann]
You begin your post bragging about how much money you make and then proceed to bash one;s abiloty to climb the
latter. 
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