Let's make one thing loud & clear: They're not Holocaust Deniers, They're Holocaust Revisionists

A thread caught my attention... one of the best threads I've seen on ATS in quite sometime. Also including one of the best videos I've seen in quite sometime.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Calling all Debunkers, and anyone who thinks Holocaust Denial is offensive, debunk this!

The Donahue video is incredible.

First off... We have a great thread here but the title of it's wrong: is it fixed now?
Anyone who thinks Holocaust Debate is offensive, explain this!

(and yea... I haven't really found one person that has denied the existence of the holocaust, in my opinion that would be like denying the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan)



I don't want to make this a thread about debating what did and didn't happen in WWII... but instead I want to make a point.

60 years from now, when our children and grandchildren are learning about historical events that have yet to happen.... Will they be able to question how evil America really was without being critizised? Did They really murder 60,000,000 muslims in the Middle East? Did they really have Gas Chambers in those FEMA camps? How bad was it for all the Illegal Aliens that didn't have papers?

My point is... will the events that are taking place in America today one day become exaggerated to a certain degree?

You see... I've always wondered... did the rise and fall of Nazi Germany not lead to the formation of the United Nations? Not to mention it created a Super Power Police Force in the USA and a rebirth of a Israeli State.

I hate to think what the rise and fall of the USA and Israel will bring to the world... (The real NWO?)... And I hate to think what will happen to my grandchildren when they question the propaganda that is thrown at them.






[edit on 9-8-2010 by Doomsday 2029]

reply to post by Doomsday 2029


Well said Sir .

I was certainly expecting a longer thread and was disappointed that you cut it so short .

Originally posted by okbmd
reply to post by Doomsday 2029

 

Well said Sir .

I was certainly expecting a longer thread and was disappointed that you cut it so short .

Thanks...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

this thread I made awhile back got a few flags and stars.... it's somewhat relevant to the discussion. (if you wanted to read a little bit more.)

there's a difference between questioning propaganda and refuting factual claims.

The Holocaust Denial industry is one of those things that make me feel like I am living in Bizarro world its like up is down and down is up. I have found that Holocaust Deniers fall into to three main catagories.

1. Judeophobes (I dont use the term anti Semite as there folks other than Jewish that are Semites)(KKK and certain so called christians)

2. Naziphiles (Who for some reason seem to think the Nazi Third Reich is a good thing and seek to rehabilitate Adolph Hitler and his Ilk in the eyes of the world)(StormFront and various Neo Nazi groups)
3. Activist Moslem Leaders (Who use Holocaust denial to rally thier people against Israel.) (Ahmadinejad and the Muslim Brotherhood.)

As someone who has actually walked the grounds at Dachau and seen the ovens,lampshades made of human skin and clothing made of human hair I have to seriously question the sanity of those involved in the denial of this immense human tragedy. While Dachau wasnt a Jewish Death Camp it was the prototype that the Nazi used in constructing other camps, Dachau was a camp that housed resistance fighters , clergy, homosexuals and other enemies of the Reich, While I would never be one to take away from some one the ability to Deny the Holocaust as I am a firm believer in free speech and thought, Truthfully by letting the Denier speak and write thier revised histories they expose themselves for the frauds and haters that they are and it is a good thing that right minded people can see them.

Previously in this thread it has been stated that there were only 6 million Jewish folks in Europe in 1939. This can be proven false by picking up any world almanac of the time period in question. Even the Nazis who were meticulous in thier record keeping put the number at 11 million in Nazi Occupied territory in 1942. You can see this by the minutes of the Wannsee Conference held in 1942. Most sources will place the numbers of the European Jeish population at 9.5-10 million.

The Wannsee Conference

The Holocaust

In 1950 there were approximately 3.5-4 million Jewish folks in remaining in Europe. So where did these Jewish folks go to?. To use Nazi terminolgy they were evacuated , used as slave labor , gassed , shot and buried in mass graves or burned in crematoria. Read your history speak to survivors and to the soldiers that liberated these camps. Also now you can look through 50 million pages of Nazi documents that were opened to the public in 2006.

Revisiting The Horrors Of The Holocaust

Germany Agrees to Open Holocaust Archive

One of the tactics used by the Holocaust Denier is the fact that more folks of other groups were killed by the Nazis, they will freely admit that the Nazis killed over 11 million Slavics, Gypsies, Communists, Witches , Mason, Astrologers, Homosexuals , Clergy and many others. The only number they will ever call into questions is the figure of 6 million Jewish folks. To deny an anti Jewish agenda on the part of the Holocaust denier is to be part of the insanty ourselves.


If someone denied that African Americans were slaves in the United States would we take this person seriously?

If someone denied the Bataan Death March took place or the Rape of Nanking took place would we take them seriously.

Would we deny that European colonialism in the New World resulted in the Death of between 10 million and 20 million Native Americans on 2 continents?


If you want to oppose the policies of the Israeli Government then oppose them based on the merits, do not bring the Holocaust into it, you have lost the arguement against the Israeli government as soon as a denial of the Holocaust comes into play.

Wait.

The word revisionists might have as many negative connotations as the word deniers.

Technically, revisionist it is the right word, assuming that we agree we can and should revise history if it was recorded inaccurately to begin with.

However, the way the word revisionist is commonly used today, it has negative connotations that imply the revising is being done to benefit a particular group or agenda and not the truth or history.

Make sense? All I'm saying is that we seem to be having trouble with revisionist language.

[edit on 8/9/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by DarkStormCrow


There's an industry now?

You know, I would maintain that there are very few who actually deny that a holocaust happened.

My point above goes to this point too...anyone who questions any of the facts or terms in which the progpaganda that became written as history was expressed and couched and permeated throughout our consciousness is automatically slammed with the label holocaust denier, which is clearly intended to intimidate and shut down debate.

In addition there is a big case to be made that debate is indeed needed and that history be revised.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow


As someone who has actually walked the grounds at Dachau and seen the ovens,lampshades made of human skin and clothing made of human hair I have to seriously question the sanity of those involved in the denial of this immense human tragedy

You have seen the "lampshades made of human skin " ?



Ken Kipperman,Polish-American son of Jewish parents who fled the Holocaust and a leading authority on Nazi use of human remains.

...his compulsive quest to uncover the truth about the notorious "human skin" lampshade shown in an army newsreel days after the liberation of Buchenwald. It turns out, Kipperman tells me, that the famous lampshade from the newsreel footage was not made out of human skin, though it was believed to be at the time, and no human skin lampshades have ever been verified, though he says it's always possible that one or two were made in isolated incidents.

Havard Law Record


The truth is grizzly enough .

reply to post by UmbraSumus


the lampshade made of human skin was supposedly found in the home of Ilse Koch. The charges related to the lampshade were withdrawn as there was lack of evidence regarding the validity of the claim that the lampshade was, in fact, made of human skin. The claims arose from a prisoner who worked in her home and who said that she order tatooed prisoners to be killed so she could make lampshades out of the tatooed skin.

She was investigated by Karl Morgan, an SS Officer charged with investigating the cruelty and black market activities within the camps.

Dr. Morgan refused to sign an affadavit stating that his investigations showed that Kock ordered the shades made from the skin of human prisoners.


To this day, nobody knows if the claim is true, or not.


I'd like to believe that, even with folks willingly committing the atrocities of WWII, ordering skin lamps is beyond the realm of reality. There were enough disgusting, subhuman acts committed during this period.

BUT WAIT!

The guy above who spout off all the usual propaganda said he ACTUALLY saw the human skin lamp shades!!

As I've actually seen other people do when they get so worked up over people who want to try and correct history, and make sure kids don't think the holocaust was a different event from WWII where 40+ million people died.

I think the slovaks, and every other minority should have been able to use their holy book and take over other people's land due to atrocities done to them by Germans.

Where exactly did you see these lamp shades?

How many did you see?

[edit on 9-8-2010 by Jeanius]

reply to post by Doomsday 2029

The Donahue video is incredible.

A little help here. I went a looking through the thread for this one and didn't find it. Got linky?

Again...this is not a o-bit/1-bit argument or debate, not a question or whether it happened so much as exactly what happened and why...and to what degree.

So, he or she saw a lampshade made of human skin? What does that prove or disprove other that there are some sick whack jobs in the world?

Yes, there has been a Holocaust Denial industry since the early 80s.

Yes, in Dachhau around 1972 they had one of the human skin lampshades on display and yes I actually saw the thing amoungst other horrors.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Yes, there has been a Holocaust Denial industry since the early 80s.

Yes, in Dachhau around 1972 they had one of the human skin lampshades on display and yes I actually saw the thing amoungst other horrors.

How could you tell that it was actually made of human skin?

Does anyone here think that these Holocaust Revisionists should be put in jail?