"We Muslims know the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation"

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posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
this just reaffirms my beliefs about mr obama and the imam and the mosque


now i am to the point of contempt for mr obama and all pro mosque supporters.


OMG. Let's call AP and let them know about this turn of events. It's news. It should be on the wire. I can see it now in tomorrows papers. "Neo doesn't change his mind. Blind as usual." I wonder if that'll sell papers.




posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by Jovi1
 


Actually if you had some fathom of intelligence you will see that I am saying everything in moderation. Its a known fact that once nice American neighbourhoods are now a clusterf*** of people who have never intended to embrace American ways and culture and are only there to rape and pilage a country just like what has happened in the UK with the Polish and the Mulsims. Every government knows in order to add to a countries prosperity a certain amount of "foreign" input is needed, however when it becomes like an infestation of rats its then a problem.

I have no interest in your opinion because you are too busy hugging trees and hippies and worshiping the foreign origin to see that America has become a pool of distrust, mistrust, unhappy and negative attitude because they have been invaded and left with the minority vote in their own country.

Moderation is needed in everything. Or do you not understand that? Do you think its ok for another countries people to come to your country by the boat load or in this case a camel load and not respect the traditions and values already in place.

People like yourself are to busy recycling your sandals to see that what you once had what the world once loved about America and New York, is slowly being taken away and given to the people who landed at your shores with demands for Mosques and demands of Sharia BS, and demand for you Americans to be assimilated into their customs.

New York has given so much to the people who have made it their new home but its funny how those people still walk around with their hand out waving around a list of demands. Do you know who else waves around a list of DEMANDS - terrorists!

So to all those that want to give your little rant a star, go ahead. But when women in New York or another American City have laws where only your ankles may be visable to another man, or where your children (if you ever have any) are expected to do their fajr, Zuhr, Asr, Maghrib and Isha you will wonder what the F*** happened to the land of the free!!


If you find spelling mistakes I don't care!


[edit on 13-8-2010 by sassyncute]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Aquarius1
 


this just reaffirms my beliefs about mr obama and the imam and the mosque


now i am to the point of contempt for mr obama and all pro mosque supporters.







Really, you are just arriving at that point? Sure could have fooled me!

You might want to read this thread:

An open message to you all "Since when did the website become...

It's about the concern many ATS Members have that these boards are being abused by people who can't seem to appreciate that at ATS we debate by focusing on the issues, not one another, and do that in a respectful and civil way.

That some new and newer members are focused on turning ATS into a Hate Site.

It's not about supporting the Community Center and Mosque being built, it's about supporting truth, equality, and the 1st Amendment of the Bill of Rights to the United States Constitution.

It's about respecting the right of others to freely make a choice, as long as it harms no one and breaks no law.

What you haven't been able to do is display Iman Rauf has harmed anyone.

Others in fact have displayed he helps the FBI train Officers, and helps the State Department of the United States by encouraging Muslims overseas to appreciate that here in America you are free to practice your religion, any religion without persecution.

What you haven't been able to do is display that the Community Center was ever slated to open on 9/11 that was debunked early on.

What you haven't been able to do is display that Rauf is going overseas to raise money for the Community Center and Mosque, as that is strictly prohibited while representing the State Department.

What you haven't been able to do is display the Community Center and Mosque is at Ground Zero it's blocks away and Rauf has had a Mosque in that same neighborhood for years.

What you haven't displayed is why Americans should discard the 1st Amendment and impinge on other American's Constitutional Right to pick how and where they want to worship and which religion.

So I guess the one true thing you can display is your contempt for people who believe in equality, fair play, not discriminating against others, truth over lies, facts over slander, and that the Constitution should never be abandoned in part or in whole.

Kind of ironic the one thing you are right about is the one thing ATS and the world doesn't really need.





[edit on 13/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Aquarius1
 


this just reaffirms my beliefs about mr obama and the imam and the mosque


now i am to the point of contempt for mr obama and all pro mosque supporters.







Yeah because stuff like obeying The Constitution, following the local zoning codes and obtaining the proper zoning ordinances are something that should be frowned upon. What the hell are you going to rail for next? A constitutional amendment that reads you have the freedom of religion as long as it is christian?

For the love of God the most annoying thing right now the people decrying this are the same ones that get on here day after day worried that they are losing (insert Constitutional right), and when it comes to this are so ready to throw The Constitution out the _ Hello people The Constitution exists to keep the rights of the minority from being trampled by the majority plain and simple it does not matter if it is insensitive or perceived as an insult, they have the right to build it there.

Just like you have the right zoning and permits permitting to build a strip club two blocks from a church. Just like the KKK has the right to build a meeting hall in a black neighborhood. Or the Neo-Nazi's have the right to open a store selling Jew bashing paraphernalia in front of a synagogue. They all may be in bad taste but it is their right to do so.

So let us get back to bashing the President for actually following The Constitution this time.

[edit on 8/13/2010 by Jovi1]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by Jovi1
 


correct me here if i wrong but theres not one person on this site has ever sworn an oath to the constitution.

hell you cant even get em to put a hand on a bible to do it
you probably can get them to place their hand on the koran tho



i am sick and tired of people preaching constitutional rights on a conspiracy site

there is not one person here in any position of authority to do anything about anyone building that mosque.


acutally the most annoying thing on this site is being label a bigot,racist,nazi for not like the idea of that mosque.

[edit on 13-8-2010 by neo96]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by sassyncute
 





So to all those that want to give your little rant a star, go ahead. But when women in New York or another American City have laws where only your ankles may be visable to another man, or where your children (if you ever have any) are expected to do their fajr, Zuhr, Asr, Maghrib and Isha you will wonder what the F*** happened to the land of the free!!


Is that really the best you can do? Try to scare people and try to get them to think that the same Constitutional Protections that protect Muslims in the United States don't protect everyone else?

You must not live in America, because the truth is that people have always and will always be prepared to fight and die to protect their way of life, WHEN and IF it's actually under attack.

10,000 illiegal aliens and 10,000 tons of illegal narcotics cross our borders every day.

Foreign based drug cartels have killed far more Americans than WHO EVER attacked us on 9-11 did. No one has been charged for that Crime by a Law Enforcement Agency, no one has been tried or convicted in a Court of Law.

America is founded on separation of not just Church and State, but the Legislative, Judicial and Executive Branches of Government.

A partisan Congress is not a Judicial body or a Law Enforcement Body it is a POLITICAL BODY.

The greatest crimes of 9-11 are the political coverup by politicians usurping the powers of another branch of Government to peddle the same thing.

FEAR.

The truth is Muslims aren't attacking us, they could easily if they wanted to, just ask the Narco Traffickers and Illegal Immigrants.

Who is attacking us are people who want Americans to live in fear, so they put on a show at the Airports because while most Americans don't live near a International Border, they live near an Airport, they make the fear 'Real' for people there, just like some posters try to make the fear real here.

It's not and smart Americans know better, who ever thought it was a good idea to turn the home of the free and the brave into the home of the scared and timid is who is attacking us.

So to all you posters out there who want other's to live in fear, by peddling fear this is what I have to say to you!







[edit on 13/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 08:59 PM
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reply to post by sassyncute
 


Actually no you are the one who seems to be lacking any type of clue to be honest. Our history is rife with people like you. First it was too many Natives, then it was too many Blacks, then it was too many Irish, then it was too many Chinese, then it was too many Jews, then it was too many Puerto Ricans, forgive me if I missed a few there was so many times where it has been too many of something or another.

The point is the ethnic group may change, but the racist divisive song remains the same even though time and again it has been proven to be unfounded.

Thank You very much but I'll just pass up the racist fear mongering and get to the mutual understanding and respect part of things.

Oh and by the way American Culture is ever changing, you see we have this annoying habit of taking the things we like from those that have emigrated here and adopting them. Kind of funny how once we get past the fear mongering we find yet another reason to party.

[edit on 8/13/2010 by Jovi1]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by Jovi1
 





Thank You very much but I'll just pass up the racist fear mongering and get to the mutual understanding and respect part of things.


Thank you for saying what I was thinking, America is still a melting pot, always was and always will be, that is one of the things that makes it so wonderful to live here, some seem to forget that this country was built by immigrants.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by sassyncute
 


Originally posted by sassyncute
Moderation is needed in everything. Or do you not understand that? Do you think its ok for another countries people to come to your country by the boat load or in this case a camel load and not respect the traditions and values already in place.


Whoa, I had to stop laughing before I could post. You are so funny!

My parents and grandparents emigrated to the US shortly after the turn of the last century. They came here to Ellis Island in search of a better way of life. My grandparents wanted their children and their children's children....me, to have a better way of life. They knew that America was the land of opportunity and that there would be jobs available for anyone who wanted to succeed.

America was indeed the new world and held a kind of hope, a hope that was quickly diminishing in Europe.

They came to the land of hope and opportunity and found freedom. They wanted and desired so much to be Americans. They were met with hardships and tribulations, but they never lost their determination.

They were met with ridicule and hatred, as most immigrants were at that time. But they didn't try to force their culture on society as many who are here and are comming here want to do today.

Time will only tell what the fate of the United States will be. Those who want to build a mosque near Ground Zero do not respect our customs and values as you have stated.

They not only do not respect them, they are ultimately opposed to them.

[edit on 13-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 




They were met with ridicule and hatred, as most immigrants were at that time. But they didn't try to force their culture on society as many who are here and are comming here want to do today.


Really who is forcing you to go to a Mosque or convert to Islam?

I have been doing business with people of the Muslim faith for decades none of them has ever asked me to convert or pray with them, but a few of them asked if they could go to Caesar's Palace in Atlantic City to gamble with me!

I seem to have a more corrupt influence on others than they have on me.

Go figure.




Time will only tell what the fate of the United States will be. Those who want to build a mosque near Ground Zero do not respect our customs and values as you have stated.


Who exactly is the 'our' you are referring to?

American customs and values include upholding and respecting and abiding by the Consitution and that includes the Bill or Rights and the First Amendment gauranteeing ALL Americans the right to worship in a manner and place and religion of their choosing.




My parents and grandparents emigrated to the US shortly after the turn of the last century. They came here to Ellis Island in search of a better way of life. My grandparents wanted their children and their children's children....me, to have a better way of life. They knew that America was the land of opportunity and that there would be jobs available for anyone who wanted to succeed.


If your parents immigrated here shortly after the last century that would either make you no more than 9 years old or 99 years old.

Either is not likely, credibility is important on ATS by the way.

Where exactly did they immigrate from?

This might give us some insight into this Unconstitutional view you have on freedom of religion?




They were met with ridicule and hatred, as most immigrants were at that time. But they didn't try to force their culture on society as many who are here and are comming here want to do today.


Kind of strange then that you would support persecuting others on unconstitutional grounds.

Who's web site did you life this off of Norman Leers?

Interesting too how you see your Grandparents and parents as individuals who might have been 'different' than other immigrants, in a rush to embrace American POPULAR culture, yet you see all Muslims as identical and one in the same.




They not only do not respect them, they are ultimately opposed to them.


Really the only American values I know of are set forth in the Constitution and by all accounts the vast majority of Muslims living in the United States are law abiding, tax paying citizens, who subscribe to our constitutional values, which is probably why you don't see any Muslims running around demanding Jews don't build Synagouges and Christians don't build Churches, and Budhists don't build Temples.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by sassyncute
So to all those that want to give your little rant a star, go ahead. But when women in New York or another American City have laws where only your ankles may be visable to another man, or where your children (if you ever have any) are expected to do their fajr, Zuhr, Asr, Maghrib and Isha you will wonder what the F*** happened to the land of the free!!


New York State resident here happy to report that the law allowing women to go topless in public in my city, here in New York is still in place. I promise that the moment Muslim infiltration puts a dent in this, you will be the first to know!

[edit on 13-8-2010 by Adevoc Satanae]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by explosivo
By the way, isn't it nicer to have a discussion revolving un-offensive opinions and ideas without anyone comparing anything to Nazi Germany?

For crying out loud, PLEASE stop doing that in order to keep these discussions clean.


If they didn't throw in the nazi card, they wouldn't be able to spread their hate onto others, it's proof they need to provoke. This is their way of keeping others on the defense. Typical.

These are the same one's who rarely give respect to the victims. I posted a letter from an American Muslim who opposed this, (on a few threads) not one reply. This is not truly about American Muslims and their rights, if so, the American Muslim who wrote the letter would have been respected with at least a respectable response.
Being human, with compassion is not what they can show right now, if they did, they would be able to freely post without bringing nazi hate into it.

For example, if those who are in favor of the builiding of the mosque sent a message on the lines of this (and meant it) it would have been helpful and maybe even helped many to heal faster:
The Constitution speaks for every religion, even so, I can understand there are many Americans out there in a lot of pain. I hope the best for them, I hope they heal from this, I'm sure right now it doesn't make sense to them. I'm sure many feel sucker punched and I send them my best ,after all, they have been through some very trying times.
With that said, The Constitution of the United States speaks for everyone so I hope we all can show a little mercy for the one's who feel any harm from this.

____________________________________

That would be the American thing to do, imo.
Nazi and hate names should not have a place in this.


sl

[edit on 13-8-2010 by sweetliberty]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 11:11 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
If your parents immigrated here shortly after the last century that would either make you no more than 9 years old or 99 years old.

Either is not likely, credibility is important on ATS by the way.

Where exactly did they immigrate from?

This might give us some insight into this Unconstitutional view you have on freedom of religion?


Think before you post.....Isn't that what you told me in a previous post in this thread Proto?

You see Proto, the last century is the 20th century. This is the 21st century, in case you haven't realized that yet.

My grandparents immigrated here in the very early years of the 20th century. My father was a toddler when they arrived at Ellis Island. My mother was born in Brooklyn shortly after her family arrived at Ellis Island.

Beginning to make sense?

Add to this the fact that I was a late baby, which means that my parents were middle aged when I was born,..... that puts me in my early 50's.....Not 9...not 99.

Credibility is important to some of us here on ATS.

As far as to your question as to where they emmigrated from....No, I wont answer that. You will only use it against me somehow.

I do not give out in depth personal information to terrorist sympathisers who hide behind the Constitution.

Nice try.

[edit on 13-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth
 


man i dont bother with anyone under 30 they dont have a freaking clue.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by sweetliberty
 





Nazi and hate names should not have a place in this.





"Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."


Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...

"...any target can always say, 'Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?' When your 'freeze the target,' you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments.... Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the 'others' come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target...'

"One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other." (pps.127-134)

"'The organizer's first job is to create the issues or problems,' and 'organizations must be based on many issues.' The organizer 'must first rub raw the resentments of the people of the community; fan the latent hostilities of many of the people to the point of overt expression. He must search out controversy and issues, rather than avoid them, for unless there is controversy people are not concerned enough to act. . . . An organizer must stir up dissatisfaction and discontent.'"

Saul Alinsky

I try not to insult people because of their opinions, I don't think there are many bigots on the forum, but people are using it to their advantage, in all honesty, it aint working,

In my opinion they have lost the argument



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by sassyncute
The point is this. Freedom of religon comes at a price. A price called DEATH to 3000 people in the New York WTC. DEATH to those who oppose Islam and arrests for all others who dare to speak out against Islam. Now they want a BIGGER community Center or MOSQUE in English.


Absolutely right. We should do away with freedom of religion in this country because the price is obviously way to high.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 11:36 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by Adevoc Satanae

Originally posted by sassyncute
The point is this. Freedom of religon comes at a price. A price called DEATH to 3000 people in the New York WTC. DEATH to those who oppose Islam and arrests for all others who dare to speak out against Islam. Now they want a BIGGER community Center or MOSQUE in English.


Absolutely right. We should do away with freedom of religion in this country because the price is obviously way to high.


Yes. In the same way that we did away with the freedom of slavery in
this country. The only ones crying about it are those who benefit from
slaves.

Same with religion, except the slaves do not want to be freed.

Brilliant, I must admit.



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by Adevoc Satanae
 


If it was my way, I would do away with ALL religion as people need to start having some belief in themselves without the need to check with some retard who does not exist.

Maybe if people did not believe in some fantasy they would put more effort into becoming better versions of themselves instead of living in tandem with what will get them into heaven.

If religion was banned and replaced with giving praise to one another and ourselves instead there would be less people on pills and less medication floating through the veins of deluded people.

It about taking responsibility for your own life and not thinking that repentance will save you.



[edit on 14-8-2010 by sassyncute]





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